Posting restaurant grades in the window

[Mudpuppie]

SF is proposing an ordinance that would require restaurants to publish the grade from their health inspection in the window. I know the LA area has a similar ordinance. I love it -- mostly because there's a real prurient interest in spotting a restaurant with a B. I've only seen a handful in LA.

Would you refuse to eat in a B restaurant? Would the sign out front generally influence your choice of places to eat? Should all localities have a similar rule? (I mean, the info is public record, after all. Why shouldn't it be so accessible?)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...BAG0O4J7DU1.DTL

[Carolyn Tillie]

SF is proposing an ordinance that would require restaurants to publish the grade from their health inspection in the window. I know the LA area has a similar ordinance. I love it -- mostly because there's a real prurient interest in spotting a restaurant with a B. I've only seen a handful in LA.

Would you refuse to eat in a B restaurant? Would the sign out front generally influence your choice of places to eat? Should all localities have a similar rule? (I mean, the info is public record, after all. Why shouldn't it be so accessible?)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...BAG0O4J7DU1.DTL

I was a huge proponent of reading the Health Department website in Los Angeles and San Diego and following the letter grades given. I was very surprised when I moved up North to discover the letter grades didn't exist up here.

In L.A. I would OCCASIONALLY eat at "B" restaurants, but usually if I knew the owners and the happenstance of the grading. It was interesting that when the letter grades were instigated in L.A., Sweet Lady Jane's right off the bat started with a "C" rating. Much of that was apparently due to things like, the distance the sink was to the workstation, etc. It took a while for everyone to come into compliance. There is also a joke that any REAL Chinese restaurant in L.A. isn't worth eating at if its rating is BETTER than a "B"!

I also have stories of walking into a deli in Hermosa Beach where the owner was bragging that he got a "C" rating but had STOLEN an "A" placard from another restaurant. I promptly walked out.

I would welcome the rating system in NoCal.

[mixmaster b]

I love the ratings system. I eat in B restaurants a lot (even sushi), but I don't think I've ever braved a C.

Mainly, the ratings give me courage to try places that look a little sketchy.

[Mudpuppie]

I also have stories of walking into a deli in Hermosa Beach where the owner was bragging that he got a "C" rating but had STOLEN an "A" placard from another restaurant. I promptly walked out.

I'm so glad you brought this up. I noticed lots of A's that were, at the very least, unlikely (if not downright suspicious). For one, all of the vendors at the Santa Monica Pier.

This made me wonder if there's a black market for the A placards. Some of them aren't signed by an inspector, but maybe a real signature isn't required.

Would love to know if this kind of under-the-table trade occurs. Er, no pun intended.

[maggiethecat]

Would you refuse to eat in a B restaurant?

Hell, no! If the restaurant looked good, and positive press from some buddies, I would eat at a "B" without a qualm. And have.

When I'm in LA, I enjoy checking out the letter ratings. My Angelena daughter told me that the joke is: C's for Cool. You probably won't die, the food might be good and almost invariably reasonable.

I tell myself that it's smart to remember that my own kitchen, by Board of Health standards, could barely scrape a B on a busy day.

[mixmaster b]

I found this LA County site where you can look up the ratings of different places, along with the reasons they got rated as they did, and their ratings histories.

Pretty interesting stuff!

[Stupid_American]

"B" ?

[Chris Cognac]

A "B" means its got flavor and a "C" means you are eating at someplace authentic....most likely in an ethnic area and much better than some fusion crap at a beach city...."C" Rules...If they (C's) were good enough for me in college, then dammit, they are good enough for me now!

[MRX]

Currently my kitchen is an E.

[mongo_jones]

who remembers the flap when the four seasons beverly hills' restaurant was shut down because of health code violations?

[Gary Soup]

I think it's ridiculous. It would become a magnet for abuse and politicization. Many of the "offenses" are really ticky-tacky. Next thing you know, they'll be denying my wife her Constitutional right to clean her chopstick with the tea before dining.

The SF Department of Public Health's Violations Database is already a matter of public record, and you can check on any restaurant you wish at the link below.

SFDPH Food Violations Database

[jschyun]

I really like the L.A. ratings system. It's a quick, visible reminder of how current the restaurant is on their food handling practices.

LA County Dept of Health Services Restaurant Ratings Page

This site is a treasure trove of info. Not only can you find out what constitutes a violation, you can, like the SF db site mentioned above, search for a restaurant and on the L.A. site you can pull up the last 3 scores, find out their score breakdown, see their violations and score, the last dates of inspection, etc.

I haven't really delved into the site that much, but I think it's reasonable to say that more information is better than less, at least where public safety is concerned. I eat at B and even C restaurants on occasion, but at least I know that going in. I wish OC had a similar system.

--edit

Oh crap somehow I missed the link on mixmaster_b's post. Oh well.

--end edit.

Edited January 29, 2004 by jschyun (log)

[Hest88]

Yuck. I really can't stand this idea and know that most of my favorite ethnic restaurants are nowhere near up to par. So what? We both maintain the illusion that we think the place is clean, and we're both happy. Personally, I think this stems from a society that values cleanliness over food. (I also think that many of the things ethnic restaurant do that alarm health inspectors are mitigated by the fact that these cuisines often cook their food thoroughly as opposed to serving it raw.)

[Mudpuppie]

For me, there's a strange double standard that I can't quite figure out. I don't really want to know about how dirty a restaurant kitchen is. Ignorance is bliss.

My own kitchen, like MRX's, would be lucky to get an E. But it's my dirt, and I know where my dirt has been. That makes all the difference.

[FoodZealot]

I don't usually consider the grades in picking a restaurant unless someone in my party is won't eat at someplace lower than an A. This is rare because I don't generally like to eat with people like this. [grin]

Some of the things that are unfortunate about ratings are that just about any ratings system is imperfect. For instance, (keep in mind I'm a layman, not a food pro) you can still keep an A even though there is evidence of cockroaches and rodents. And you can get a false sense of security in that just having an A rating speaks more to cleanliness than anything else - it won't stop them from serving an undercooked piece of chicken by accident. And while ethnic places have a comedic reputation of having C ratings (like "C is for cat"), there are plenty of mainstream places that have had problems - deli's, hotel restaurants, highly regarded restaurants, etc. I'm sure we've all seen some freakin' scary practices in home kitchens.

But in favor of the ratings, if you've ever seen some of the scary stuff they've caught on hidden camera stories on TV (local LA news does these periodically), it's convincing, gnarly stuff - vermin infestation of all kinds, unsafe storage, not sanitizing utensils, cross-contaminating, food in the danger zone temperatures - you name it. They've started showing success stories of places that have gotten their act together and are now serving much safer food.

I have mixed feelings about this, but overall I support them in the name of better information for the consumer. I feel that even though it is imperfect, it makes food safety a much higher priority for most food establishments that it might be otherwise.

[Cusina]

I had, honestly, never heard of this practice. Learn so much good stuff here on eG. I think if it were in effect here I would use it as input, but not necessarily make it a deciding factor. I can't imagine being an exclusive "A" diner. What is the fun in that? Sometimes you gotta take a risk or two to find the good stuff.

[Jensen]

I was a huge proponent of reading the Health Department website in Los Angeles and San Diego and following the letter grades given. I was very surprised when I moved up North to discover the letter grades didn't exist up here.

[...]

I would welcome the rating system in NoCal.

Sacramento County has their inspection reports online:

FOOD FACILITY INSPECTIONS

It's entirely possible that other counties do as well.

[hollywood]

I can't imagine being an exclusive "A" diner. What is the fun in that? Sometimes you gotta take a risk or two to find the good stuff.

Exactly. Playing around on the site, I note that virtually every good Thai restaurant in Thai Town currently has a B. Some have had A's in the past but not now. Perhaps part of the problem may be the language/cultural barriers between inspectors and owners, with the owners not wanting to take the time to be neurotic enough to comply with each and every requirement. Also, some of the grades are based on inspections from over 6 months ago. Maybe the owners are not concerned enough to request a re-inspection.

[jschyun]

I was a huge proponent of reading the Health Department website in Los Angeles and San Diego and following the letter grades given. I was very surprised when I moved up North to discover the letter grades didn't exist up here.

[...]

I would welcome the rating system in NoCal.

Sacramento County has their inspection reports online:

FOOD FACILITY INSPECTIONS

It's entirely possible that other counties do as well.

Actually she was talking about restaurants getting grades. Plenty of other counties have their health inspection info online.

But I think LA is one of the few that actually give out grades A, B, and C. I checked the Sacramento site you gave and nowhere did I see a grade. Did I miss it?

[Chris Cognac]

Does anyone know how I could obtain an image of the "C" placard to use on my t -shirts?

[Chris Cognac]

Is the prob my computer or the server...?

Sorry about the multi posts

Edited January 30, 2004 by Chris Cognac (log)

[melkor]

Is the prob my computer or the server...?

Sorry about the multi posts

There's a discussion about the bug here. The eGullet tech folks are working on it. In the meantime, I'll just come through and delete all the dupes.

[Exotic Mushroom]

I don't really see the point to posting restaurant health ratings in windows. For anyone who really cares, the information is publicly available. And to echo a sentiment from several posters here, I'd say that rarely have I seen anyone working in their home kitchen with anything close to the level of concern for sanitation expected of restaurants.

Would I refuse to eat in a B restaurant? Hell, no! One of my favorite restaurants when I lived in Oregon had a sign in their front window that read "FAILED TO COMPLY with Multnomah County Health Standards" blah blah blah. Not quite sure how they were able to get away with remaining open, but I ate there at least once a month anyway.

[FistFullaRoux]

In Alabama, all health scores are posted behind the registers, or at the front door. They do come in handy, although I've never not eaten at a certain grade (they are in percentages here) it does factor into what I'll order. Anything lower than a 90 means no ground beef, poultry or seafood for me. Cuts of beef are fine, as is pasta etc. But I won't risk it with the big three.

A score of 80 gets you shut down. Here's an example of the Birmingham area scores:

Jefferson County Health Department rest. scores

[Chris Cognac]

Culinary Detective, don't fear the C

This is not an attempt at shameless promotion but Fredlet from e gullet just designed a "Don't fear the "C" " shirt for my site...here is the link..its pretty cool!