Distributor Produced Wine Lists?

[Craig Camp]

It is common practice for wholesalers and importers to print wine lists for restaurants free of charge. Of course, there is always a quid-pro-quo of some sort - as they say nothing is free. While I do not think this is an issue for the local corner joint with 5 or 6 wines - it is a real issue for larger establishments. Is this fair to consumers? How would you feel about a restaurant where the local meat and fish purveyors set the menu for the day based on what items they had to move? In these days of easy desk-top publishing is there any reason for a restaurant not to print their own wine list?

[fresco]

If the stuff the purveyors is pushing is seasonal produce at the height of its perfection, or something available only because of a market quirk (kobe beef produced in Canada, available only because Japan banned all beef imports) it would be a benefit, not a problem.

But I don't think this is what you are getting at. If a restaurant managed to get all the remaining stock of a pretty good wine at a great price and passed that great price along to customers, wonderful. But does this happen often?

[winebill]

One pet peeve I have is when the Restaurant does not keep up with the vintages.

"sorry sir ,but we do not have the Chateau Blah Blah Blah 1982. Try the 1984 at the same price ,it's just as good !"

[Craig Camp]

If the stuff the purveyors is pushing is seasonal produce at the height of its perfection, or something available only because of a market quirk (kobe beef produced in Canada, available only because Japan banned all beef imports) it would be a benefit, not a problem.

But I don't think this is what you are getting at. If a restaurant managed to get all the remaining stock of a pretty good wine at a great price and passed that great price along to customers, wonderful. But does this happen often?

I'd like to meet your purveyors. Most food distributors don't sell Kobe beef and most wine distributors don't pay the bills selling DRC Le Montrachet. Nice window dressing, but not serious dollars for anything other than small specialty companies.

The question is not out of stocks or incorrect vintages, but the actual taking control of wine list production by suppliers.

[Fat Guy]

It's amazing, in the age of desktop publishing, that restaurants still fail to print their daily specials (I'm talking about food here) on a readable page, with prices, and instead choose to have waiters recite them (a practice pretty much everybody I know hates).

Many restaurants delegate the selection of every bottle on the list to a distributor anyway, so in that case I don't think it matters that the distributor is also printing the list. The distributor is less likely to spell stuff wrong, at least.

Even when a distributor has nothing to do with making the list, though, there can be undue influence over the content of the list: the quid pro quo is "buy this crap, and we'll give you a better allocation of the non-crap."

In the grand scheme of things, this problem doesn't matter to me all that much because the restaurants using distributor-produced lists tend to be at a middling level and probably wouldn't have good lists anyway. I'm far more concerned about the fact that drug companies essentially pay off doctors (Broadway show tickets, fancy restaurant meals, whatever) to influence which medications they prescribe.

[fresco]

The issue is, does it result in a better or worse wine selection. And for a whole bunch of restaurants which offer half a dozen well known, low to mid priced wines, I don't think it makes any difference either way who produces the wine list.

I'd be shocked to learn that this is the case in restaurants which pride (and market) themselves on their knowledge and selection of wines.

[Mark Sommelier]

This practice occurs two ways. One way is for a small independant restaurant to choose one wholesaler to select, provide, inventory and maintain the winelist with their exclusive products. This saves the restaurateur the expense of paying someone with wine knowledge. The second way I see this practice occur is at the chain level where the corporate headquarters dictate a "core" winelist that each unit must maintain. This is commonly seen at places such as Ruth's Chris, Outback, Capitol Grill, Smith & Wollensky, Olive Garden and so forth. These deals are cut at the national supplier or producer level involving such giants as Gallo, Mondavi, Southcorp, Brown Forman and Diageo. In both cases the distributor/supplier usually picks up the cost of printing the list and promotional material. The problem Steven mentions, called "tie-ins", happens more often in large markets like New York and LA. This involves linking products, and is a game I studiously avoid.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I'm far more concerned about the fact that drug companies essentially pay off doctors (Broadway show tickets, fancy restaurant meals, whatever) to influence which medications they prescribe.

Off-topic, but that practice was outlawed here in California two years ago -- does it still happen elsewhere?

Actually, the law (as I understand it which is why my Patina job changed so much at the Music Center) is that they are allowed to 'dine' the doctors with a meal that is not worth more than $100 and there can be no tickets provided. Part of my job at Patina was to sell the pharmaceutical companies the catering service (with appropriate audio visual equipment) for pre-theatre presentations of their products. They would sit through a 60- or 90-minute slide show on a drug that would combat a disease, and then go off to an opera or symphony or play. Patina (as did the performance companies!) ended up losing a lot of income when that busienss was curtailed.

I should amend that - Patina in association with performing arts groups lost income. They were still able to host some of those dinner at other restaurants but we, at the Music Center, couldn't get people to come and host the presentation dinners there because it made no sense to spend time getting into the Music Center just for a meal and no show.

Sorry for the long-winded aside. I'm just curious if doctors are able to see Broadway shows or shows elsewhere or if that a California law only.

[docsconz]

My field was never one that benefited a lot from the old rules anyway. I use what I need in the OR and don't write a lot of prescriptions, so I never was offered any of the "junkets". We still occassionally get Pharma sponsored dinners usually associated with a lecture that may or may not directly involve one or more of their products. I typically don't bother unless it is a product, lecture or meal that interests me, because I'd rather spend what free time I have here. Nevertheless, unlike the wine quid pro quo discussed above there is never an obligation to use, prescribe or recommend the medications or products in question. That doesn't mean that they have no effect, however. The Pharmas wouldn't do it if it didn't help sales. From my perspective, if the medication or product "makes sense" and studies support the claims, I may try it in my practice if the appropriate situation arises. I (and others) are probably more likely to try and use something that we are more familiar with.

But no, I have never seen a Broasway show or equivalent perc secondary to a Pharma freebie.

[Fat Guy]

Woops. Sorry; didn't mean to start this digression. All's I meant was that distributor-produced wine lists are just another form of marketing.

[Rieslingfan]

The whole concept of the distributor producing the list irritates the hell out of me. I got this mad from the one time I tried to help a newer restaurant (Thai cuisine) put together a list. We went through the book from the distributor, picked out some very appropriate wines at good prices (e.g. Selbach-Oster MSR Spatlese, Trimbach Pinot Gris, etc.) as well as some basics for those who had to have them (e.g. the ubiquitous KJ Chard, a merlot I have for gotten...) and ended up with a 12 item list that was priced well. The distributor got the list, offered one of those "we'll handle it" deals & the Thai restaurant now serves KJ Chard, Beringer White Zin, Mondavi Coastal Merlot (or whatever the hell they are calling it now) and some other truly evil plonk, including Blue Nun! The Blue Nun is $23/bottle!

Aaargh!!!!! I hate distributors that do this.