"Vegetarian Eggs"

[jhlurie]

I spotted these in a store today and it sparked my curiousity. Frankly, at first, I couldn't even figure out what the heck a "vegetarian egg" was supposed to be.

Scam, or a legitimate naming convention for people concerned with organic foodstuffs to the extent that they are nervous about what their chickens are eating? Of course, concerns about what exactly goes into the feed of animals is hardly a new subject on eGullet. And proclaimed "cage-free" and "organic" statuses for eggs are nothing new--its just the name of this one (and the emphasis on the feed) which caught my eye.

[Pan]

I vote for "scam."

Chickens are naturally omnivorous. My rooster in Malaysia loved to eat waterbugs, for example. And of course, they're known for eating worms. I wouldn't think it would be healthful for them to eat only grain and nothing from the Animal Kingdom.

[jhlurie]

Chickens are naturally omnivorous. My rooster in Malaysia loved to eat waterbugs, for example. And of course, they're known for eating worms.

Indeed they do. Click here for documentation of this.

Where do people come up with ideas like Vegetarian Eggs? Could this be construed as Animal cruelty/abuse simply to sell/promote their own bizarre ideologies? I mean they harp on the fact that they let their chickens run around the coop instead of hooking them up to a conveyor belt, and yet they deprive them of part of their natural diet? What the hell?

[Pan]

Frankly, I don't think that running around a coop is all that humane, either. The father of the young woman who was my girlfriend when I was living in Malaysia used to run a chicken coop for a businessman whose headquarters were in the capital of the state. Those chickens were all together in that crowded coop all the time and never had the experience of running around outside. Pak Cik Din (the father) gave me a young chicken as a present once. Like all the other chickens in the coop, it had all white feathers. It looked too old to be a chick anymore, but the poor little chicken thought I was its mother, followed me everywhere, and wanted to sleep with me in my bed (I put it in the coop instead, a coop that was just for the chickens to sleep in at night). I tried to show the little chicken how to scratch the earth, but I'm not a chicken and wasn't eating anything I dug up, so of course I failed and the poor thing died within a few days, despite our best efforts to feed it (like all our neighbors, we fed our chickens and all the other local chickens raw rice every day). I'm not sure whether I was right in figuring that part of the reason the little chicken simply couldn't fend for itself was that it had spent too much time living in a coop where its feed was given to it and it couldn't do anything and had nothing to do, but I do think that the chickens who never have a chance to roam around outside have a rather stunted and pathetic life. Hooking them up to a conveyor belt all the time would just be a further level of cruelty.

But yes, I definitely feel that feeding chickens nothing but grain is abusive. Sorry if I digressed too much.

[marie-louise]

I've been buying eggs similar to this for over a decade. They sell them at the supermarkets here. They are labeled "Brown Fertile...raised without Cages...100% vegetable diet...free from hormones or antibiotics" They are local for me-from Petaluma (Rock Island brand.) They don't taste as good as the ones from my friend's farm, but they taste noticably better than other brands, but even if they didn't, I'd really rather not have hormones and antibiotics in my food. The yolks are more orange than yellow.

[jhlurie]

I can understand buying organic eggs--no hormones or antibiotics, etc. But do the chicken farmers really police them to make sure that they don't eat the bugs, worms and other animals which are part of their natural foraging? How else can they claim they are "vegetarian"? That's why I think it's a piece of marketing B.S.

The cage-free thing is a debate I don't feel qualified to argue. I just don't know the nitty gritty details.

[Moopheus]

I would say this might be a scam--they are what they say they are, but kind of a cheat too. I.e., Egg Innovations, the company that sells these, does make a big deal about the cage-free eggs, except that a little digging reveals that the vegetarian eggs are not cage-free; they're caged hens (presumably to keep them from eating the bugs). In the fact the product description on their web site says that the eggs are "Produced by cage-free hens" but the FAQ sheet says that Vegetarian Eggs are "brown eggs produced by caged chickens fed a 100% vegetarian diet." Hmmm--could this be a deceptive marketing practice? I think I need to go and make a couple of annoying phone calls.

It's unlikely that most of the egg-laying chickens in this country get anything close to a natual diet--it's hard to pick up a bug when you have no beak!

The eggs I have in the fridge right now declare that "these hens are cared for now as they were since 1955", which I thought sounded pretty good even if a bit vague. It also says they're fed a natural feed free of animal fats. Though I suppose that wouldn't necessarily exclude the random bugs and things the chickens would find in the yard. That doesn't bother me at all, and I'm a vegetarian. I just want the chickens to go about their chicken business and give me good eggs.

[Pan]

It's unlikely that most of the egg-laying chickens in this country get anything close to a natual diet--it's hard to pick up a bug when you have no beak!

What do they do, yank the beak off the bird? So she can't peck them when they steal her eggs that she wants to protect and roost on? That was unnecessary in my experience of free-range organic farming. My neighbor in the Malay village owned a bunch of chickens - umpteen hens and one rooster. Most of the time, one or another of her hens was laying eggs. All you had to do was pick the hen up and take a few of her eggs. As long as there were some eggs left for the hen to roost on, she complained but dealt with it. I think that if anyone took all the eggs, the hen would have panicked, and I guess that's what they have to deal with in those egg farms.

[marie-louise]

Rock Island's website. Seems they sell at the SF Ferry Plaza in additon to stores. The website is pretty funny. An example:

Moses says (with a wry chuckle) that one of the most important differences between caged vs. cage-free hens is that some cage-free hens are treated to a rooster (one rooster per 10 hens that have been selected to enjoy a rooster). Those hens produce fertile eggs.

I want my chickens to have had a good life.

[Moopheus]

What do they do, yank the beak off the bird? So she can't peck them when they steal her eggs that she wants to protect and roost on? That was unnecessary in my experience of free-range organic farming.

Uh, basically, yes. Actually, I think they use a cutter. In the US at least, battery cages are still in widespread use, though they've been banned in most of Europe. The chickens tend to fight and peck each other when kept so close together.

[tryska]

i buy vegetarian cage-free eggs.

a couple of reasons:

1. with the flax seed used in the hens' diet, the eggs wind up higher in omega-3 fatty acids, whicH is important to me nutritionally.

2. i don't have to worry about pig parts, cow parts or back in the day - chicken parts being part of the feed.

3. I prefer cage-free from an anti-factory-farming perspective.

it's mainly reason 1 tho. that and they taste better, and seem fresher. at least the yolks stay together a little easier than regular eggs.

Edited January 8, 2004 by tryska (log)

[tryska]

It's unlikely that most of the egg-laying chickens in this country get anything close to a natual diet--it's hard to pick up a bug when you have no beak!

What do they do, yank the beak off the bird? So she can't peck them when they steal her eggs that she wants to protect and roost on?

no so they won't peck at each other and themselves in an effort to cope with overcrowding.

[marie-louise]

Love the avatar, Moopheus. You appear to have a naughtier cat than me-or is that a racoon on your counter! (I actually have 4 cats, and only one of them plays dumb about the no-cats-on-the-counter rule. Sigh...)

[sparrowgrass]

Chicks beaks are burnt off with a cauterizer. "Cage free" chickens still live in cramped quarters--it is just one big cage (a building) instead of a thousand small ones. It is the only economical way to raise mass quantities of chickens.

"Free range" means that chickens have access to the out of doors for some unspecified amount of time--probably access to a crowded, manure covered slab of concrete. Free range sounds nice, but the reality, for commercial produced birds, is probably not what you are imagining.

Bugs are probably not a part of most hens' diets--when the USDA inspector comes by and finds bugs, it is a serious violation. Most hens eat a mix that is mostly grain--corn, wheat, soybeans. Laying hens need additional protein, which can come from the soybeans, and calcium, which can be oyster shells or limestone. I don't think a vegetarian diet is bad, compared to a non-vegetarian diet. Neither bird is scratching in the dirt and eating junebugs, rolling in the dust or eating nice fresh grass or my almost ripe tomatoes, like a real chicken should.

Depending on market prices, the protein and calcium may be obtained from animal sources--meat scraps, meat & bone meal, fish meal & high grade tankage (you really don't want to know--tankage is a product obtained by rendering animal tissues, including blood, exclusive of hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure and stomach contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good manufacturing practice, according to a California legal description I just found on the web.)

As far as I know, no chickens are hooked up to conveyor belts. They are in cages with slanted floors, and their eggs do drop onto a belt and are carried to the processing area of the plant.

[Pan]

The USDA has a problem with bugs in a chicken coop??? What are they thinking here?

As for the beaks, chickens peck one another. "Pecking order" is an idiom. If the hens are too close together, give 'em more space!

But a manure-covered slab of concrete sounds fine for chickens. It's the crowding that sounds like a problem. Like most other animals, chickens need some space. They are social creatures who chase one another and, less commonly, like to hang out together.

I have to say that it bothers me that I eat a lot of meat that comes from animals kept in such awful conditions.

[Mudpuppie]

"Vegetarian" eggs means that the hens aren't fed feed that contains animal by-products. This is important for one major reason -- think BSE, a product of cows eating cows, sheep eating sheep, etc.

What they are fed, or are allowed to eat, is another matter. If they're free-ranging, they most likely have access to insects. (This isn't necessarily the case, though, because "free-range" has no official definition. It could mean that they roam freely through a concrete barn and can't actually scratch in the dirt. In other words, free range might just mean cage free.)

I have chickens. When buying feed, there are varieties that are clearly marked "vegetarian" and those that aren't. I always buy the vegetarian kind just because i have a better idea what's in it. In the end, it doesn't really matter. The chickens turn their noses up at the stuff.

Personally, I'd always buy the "vegetarian" eggs. Animal products that go into animal feed are the stuff that most people would never choose to eat. And the stuff that hens eat affects egg quality and taste in a unique way. (I never, ever feed my chickens cabbage. ) So for me, I'd just rather have the vegetarian eggs.

Edited January 8, 2004 by Mudpuppie (log)

[Mudpuppie]

But a manure-covered slab of concrete sounds fine for chickens. It's the crowding that sounds like a problem. Like most other animals, chickens need some space. They are social creatures who chase one another and, less commonly, like to hang out together.

This isn't really true, Pan. Concrete is bad for a few reasons, though the industry maintains that it's fine. Chickens hunt for food by scratching. They obviously can't do that on a concrete floor. There's a deprivation thing here, but I won't go into that because it's a much larger issue. So set that aside.

Sure, chickens will eat from feeders, so it's not like a concrete floor will starve them. What it will do is bore them. And a bored chicken is a restless, cantankerous, puglistic chicken. And chickens do love to hurt each other. Now, space is one thing and yes, they need it. But if they're bored, they're going to fight anyway. And if they're wounded, well, that manure-covered floor is going to mean serious transmission of disease.

Again, a deprivation issue. But also a consumer one -- if you're buying eggs, you presumably want to buy eggs from healthy chickens.

And as for occassionally hanging out with each other -- not really accurate. Chickens flock by nature. They need space, but they also need company. My chickens wuv each other.

[tryska]

so mudpuppie can you explain the egg yolk thing to me?

i find with vegetarian, free-range/cage free whatever eggs that i buy - the yolks seem to hold together, like the skin on them is tight....(important when i'm trying to seperate out yolks) but with the grocery store kind, it's like the yolk breaks if i breath on it the wrong way...

is that a function of freshness? feed? hen health?

[Mudpuppie]

so mudpuppie can you explain the egg yolk thing to me?

i find with vegetarian, free-range/cage free whatever eggs that i buy - the yolks seem to hold together, like the skin on them is tight....(important when i'm trying to seperate out yolks) but with the grocery store kind, it's like the yolk breaks if i breath on it the wrong way...

is that a function of freshness? feed? hen health?

Freshness. The yolk of a fresh egg is much firmer than that of an old egg. In fact, really fresh eggs are very hard to whip, and even if you try to break the yolk in the frying pan, it won't really run.

When you buy eggs, there's usually (always?) a date code on the carton. You might have to do some deciphering or call the company, but you should always be able to tell when the eggs were actually laid.

[tryska]

so mudpuppie  can you explain the egg yolk thing to me?

i find with vegetarian, free-range/cage free whatever eggs that i buy - the yolks seem to hold together, like the skin on them is tight....(important when i'm trying to seperate out yolks)  but with the grocery store kind, it's like the yolk breaks if i breath on it the wrong way...

is that a function of freshness?  feed?  hen health?

Freshness. The yolk of a fresh egg is much firmer than that of an old egg. In fact, really fresh eggs are very hard to whip, and even if you try to break the yolk in the frying pan, it won't really run.

i've noticed that actually. but like i said - it's the free-range organic veg ones that i notice it with - not the standard eggs. i'll have to look closely at the dates from now on.

[Mudpuppie]

i've noticed that actually. but like i said - it's the free-range organic veg ones that i notice it with - not the standard eggs. i'll have to look closely at the dates from now on.

Maybe the free-range-organic people aren't very conscientious about shipping their eggs in a timely way. Or maybe your store doesn't have a high turnover in the high-end eggs? They could be sitting in the fridge for a couple weeks at the store.

Just some thoughts.

[tryska]

oh i meant the opposite - the free-range-organic people have the tight yolks that don't break so easily. the grocery store ones are the weak drippy kind.

[Moopheus]

Love the avatar, Moopheus. You appear to have a naughtier cat than me-or is that a racoon on your counter! (I actually have 4 cats, and only one of them plays dumb about the no-cats-on-the-counter rule. Sigh...)

He's a Maine Coon. After I've made cocoa he likes to lick the milk residue at the bottom of the pot.

[Moopheus]

But also a consumer one -- if you're buying eggs, you presumably want to buy eggs from healthy chickens.

You would presume--but even though I think most people are aware of salmonella in eggs, they're just advised to cook the eggs, and not think about why there's so much contamination.

I know that 'free-range' and 'cage-free' don't necessarily mean ideal conditions for the chicken. But I don't think an extra dollar or two for a carton of eggs is too much to pay for better eggs, especially since cheaper eggs just mean that costs are 'externalized' to the animals, the workers, and the environment.

Thanks for the info. When I call Egg Innovations, I've got a couple more questions for them.

[marie-louise]

oh i meant the opposite - the free-range-organic people have the tight yolks that don't break so easily. the grocery store ones are the weak drippy kind.

I know what you mean. My husband bought some "regular" eggs from the grocery store a few weeks ago. As is my usual custom, I was separating the yolks from the whites by moving them back & forth between my hands (not the shell, but using my fingers as the sieve.) I do this all the time w/ the vegetarian eggs, but these eggs were so slippery that the yolk AND white kept slipping through my fingers and down the sink. I finally had to break them over a plate-and even so the egg yolks broke apart when I separated them. I went thorugh about eight eggs to get two egg yolks to make mayonnaise!