Knife Buying Blog

Varmint · January 7, 2004

Well, I couldn't decide where to go, so I called an expert, Daniel O'Malley of Seattle's BladeGallery.com (their other website, EpicureanEdge.com is temporarily offline). Daniel is an apprentice bladesmith who has an extensive knowledge of Japanese culinary knives. He's been selling knives for more than 8 years over the net. He makes his own line of kitchen knives, but if you want one, you had better not be in a hurry -- his current wait list is 6-1/2 years!

Ultimately, I'm essentially buying 2 knives: an 8-1/2" Ryusen Damascus Chef's Knife and a 10" Shun Chef's Knife (no picture available on Daniel's site, but here's a picture on a competitor's site). Daniel is a huge fan of the Ryusen, and it's currently on sale for $155. I decided to try the smaller blade as I'm doubting whether I'd use a full 10 inches on a regular basis (please keep the jokes to yourselves!). Also, Daniel has a theory about blade length: he believes that the longer blades came in favor due to the use of big-ass bolsters on German knives. With the bolsters, it makes it harder to keep the entire length of the blade sharp, thus reducing the amount of useful blade. Daniel realizes this hypothesis may be wacked out, but it's a good discussion point. The Ryusen is ground to an angle of 13-15 degrees. Damn, that's sharper than a razor.

I did decide to try the larger Shun, simply because it's a bit more curved than the Ryusen. Plus, it was cheaper at about $115. Daniel thinks these are great knives, but just a step below the Ryusen. They're not as sharp, either, with the edge at 15-17 degrees.

I won't be able to try out both knives for their cutting abilities, as then I couldn't return them. I can get a feel for them, and I need to get the one I don't like back to them within 7 days. That's their standard policy, and a pretty nice one. One other nice feature about bladegallery.com: they'll sharpen a knife you purchase from them one time for free. Daniel lamented over the fact that only about 3 places in the country know how to properly sharpen Japanese knives. Thus, this is a service he provides to his customers so they can see what a great job his shop does.

Finally, Daniel does not believe in using the mirrored type of steels that Chad discussed, particularly for the home cook who doesn't sharpen his knives on a regular basis. For someone like me, Daniel prefers a ceramic honing rod, as that puts a better edge on a knife than a true steel. It takes off a bit more metal, but it's more effective on a regular basis.

I'll post more details once I get the knives.

Chad · January 7, 2004

Way to go Dean! :cool: That Ryusen looks like a nifty knife. I suspect, though, that you'll end up keeping the Shun. Once you get used to a bigger knife it's hard to go back to a shorter one. But play Zorro for a couple of days and see which one feels best in your hands. You can't go wrong with either one. When is the Brown Truck of Joy supposed to arrive?

Finally, Daniel does not believe in using the mirrored type of steels that Chad discussed, particularly for the home cook who doesn't sharpen his knives on a regular basis. For someone like me, Daniel prefers a ceramic honing rod, as that puts a better edge on a knife than a true steel. It takes off a bit more metal, but it's more effective on a regular basis.

He's right. Why do you think I sent you the smooth steel and kept the ceramic rod at home? :raz:

Chad

Varmint · January 7, 2004

Of course, I may just decide to get the larger Ryusen. :biggrin:

The truck should arrive on Monday!!!

Schielke · January 7, 2004

Sweet, I eagerly await your thoughts. I have handled both lines of knives and remember the Ryusen being a shade better balanced.

Yum.

Ben

bilrus · January 7, 2004

As I said above - I really like the shape of the handle of the Shun - it looks like that will be a big difference between the two.

CRUZMISL · January 7, 2004

It's my understanding the Ryusen's are the same as my Hattori's. Same price so it's really which name you like. I'll be really surprised if you don't like it.

Joe

Varmint · January 7, 2004

It's my understanding the Ryusen's are the same as my Hattori's. Same price so it's really which name you like. I'll be really surprised if you don't like it.
Joe

That's correct. Daniel told me that Ryusen makes the "cheaper" Hattori line.

Chad · January 7, 2004

It's my understanding the Ryusen's are the same as my Hattori's. Same price so it's really which name you like. I'll be really surprised if you don't like it.
Joe
That's correct. Daniel told me that Ryusen makes the "cheaper" Hattori line.

Yup, but just to be clear for those skimming along, Ryusens and Hattoris are essentialy the same knife. The "cheaper" line in this instance is compared to Hattori's own $1,200+ line of knives, not the Ryusens.

Don't go dissin' my Hattoris, Willis. :raz:

Chad

AzRaeL · January 8, 2004

I actually tried the 12" Global, but I thought the blade was too flat. That is, most of the knife's edge sits on the cutting board. I want a bit more (not a lot) of a curve to support a rocking style of chopping.

that's what i thought too but the Global seems so popular just thought i'd ask.

I like the Wusthof's curve a lot better but I wonder if it's just the needing to be get used to.

CRUZMISL · January 8, 2004

It's my understanding the Ryusen's are the same as my Hattori's. Same price so it's really which name you like. I'll be really surprised if you don't like it.
Joe
That's correct. Daniel told me that Ryusen makes the "cheaper" Hattori line.
Yup, but just to be clear for those skimming along, Ryusens and Hattoris are essentialy the same knife. The "cheaper" line in this instance is compared to Hattori's own $1,200+ line of knives, not the Ryusens.
Don't go dissin' my Hattoris, Willis.
Chad

Yeah. Cheaper Hattori's are not "cheap" by any stretch. You'd have to be Bill Gates to afford Hattori's hand forged damascus line up.

Joe

Varmint · January 8, 2004

That's why I used the quotation marks around "cheaper" in my prior thread. :wink:

AzRaeL · January 8, 2004

Yeah. Cheaper Hattori's are not "cheap" by any stretch. You'd have to be Bill Gates to afford Hattori's hand forged damascus line up.
Joe

either that, or really obsessed with knives.

They dont cost that much. Only about the same price as a half decent second hand automobile *LOL*

Chad · January 8, 2004

Of course, I may just decide to get the larger Ryusen.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winnah!

Any bets on whether or not this is exactly what happens? :raz:

Dean, you've gone and gotten yourself some damn fine knives. You'll have a ball with them. This knife buying blog has been a blast. Keep us up to date on what you think of each, how they feel, how the handles feel in your hands -- the works.

Chad

SG- · January 8, 2004

Chad, I'm very happy with my Hattori's (as you know) . I checked out the knife merchant website and was intrigued by the Nenox knives. I'm looking for a slicer and was thinking about the 9'' Slicer ''Sujihiki''. Any thoughts on this maker?
Joe
I only know Nenox knives by reputation, which is very good. I haven't used one, but the handle shape looks very nice. Has anybody else owned or played with a Nenox?
Chad

Played around with a 9.5" Nenox gyutou last year while I was at Korin/Japanese knife. Soooooo pretty!!!! Very nice feel and look, on top of that I believe it's stainless too. Felt very good in my hand, only thing that held me back was the $400 price tag so ended up with a much cheaper kahuna of a knife 7" suisin deba (man are deba's thick and hefty!!!) which the resident master suggested a tune up with an evil grin. He also showed me a huge damascus noodle knife made by ittosai they just got in, sweet.

That was then and have since placed an order for a 10" chef knife from Bon Kramer that I'm still waiting for and now debating whether I should take the plunge a get a 9.5" Nenox too or a 12" honyaki yanagi from masamoto / aritsugu. This thread is not helping at all!!!!!

By the way Nenox is used by Morimoto and Sakai on iron chef, look it for it especially when Sakai is on, seems like he has a whole arsenal of em. Here's the Japanese web site by the way http://www.nenohi.co.jp/ with a link to the english site http://www.nenoxusa.com, check out the "new&special" link for a $6k Damasukasu Kensaki Yanagi 330mm.

Edited January 8, 2004 by SG- (log)

robyn · January 8, 2004

As for professional sharpening... it's always the best thing provided you have someone who really knows what they're doing sharpening your knives. The chances of that? Around 5%.

I can't say about the percentages. But I live in a fairly unsophisticated place - and have wound up having my knives sharpened just like my grandma did. Someone comes to my house. Not with a horse drawn cart - but in a truck fitted out with the "right stuff". I found this fellow through the Yellow Pages. Most of his customers are restaurants - but he'll do business with me the same way he does business with a restaurant (i.e., he'll pull into my driveway at 11 pm - I take my knives out to the truck - and he takes care of them). Perhaps I can get a professional knife person to make "house calls" because I live in an unsophisticated place? Robyn

CRUZMISL · January 8, 2004

I guess then that would make this the bargain of the century?

here

Same knives but with the micarta handles?

Joe

Chad · January 8, 2004

Perhaps I can get a professional knife person to make "house calls" because I live in an unsophisticated place? Robyn

Nope, you get a knife sharpener to make house calls because many knife sharpeners still make house calls. If he does a great job, make sure you keep him on your Christmas card list. :wink: And tip him well. High quality sharpening professionals are hard to find.

The problem with getting your knives sharpened is that anyone with a couple hundred bucks to invest in a grinder can call himself a knife sharpener. Mostly they do lawn mower blades and garden tools. Finding a sharpener who really knows what he's doing with kitchen knives is a real treat. But it's kind of like trying to find someone to cut your hair. You can go through several expensive mistakes before you find the right person.

Chad

AzRaeL · January 8, 2004

Played around with a 9.5" Nenox gyutou last year while I was at Korin/Japanese knife. Soooooo pretty!!!! Very nice feel and look, on top of that I believe it's stainless too. Felt very good in my hand, only thing that held me back was the $400 price tag so ended up with a much cheaper kahuna of a knife 7" suisin deba (man are deba's thick and hefty!!!) which the resident master suggested a tune up with an evil grin. He also showed me a huge damascus noodle knife made by ittosai they just got in, sweet.
That was then and have since placed an order for a 10" chef knife from Bon Kramer that I'm still waiting for and now debating whether I should take the plunge a get a 9.5" Nenox too or a 12" honyaki yanagi from masamoto / aritsugu. This thread is not helping at all!!!!!
By the way Nenox is used by Morimoto and Sakai on iron chef, look it for it especially when Sakai is on, seems like he has a whole arsenal of em. Here's the Japanese web site by the way http://www.nenohi.co.jp/ with a link to the english site http://www.nenoxusa.com, check out the "new&special" link for a $6k Damasukasu Kensaki Yanagi 330mm.

hahahah! and i snicker at reviews on Amazon, HouseWareReviews and Epinions when they describe a $100 Global Chef's Knife as being Very Expensive

*chortle*

Varmint · January 8, 2004

Daniel O'Malley states that there are only about 3 places in the country that really know how to sharpen Japanese knives properly.

Marlene · January 8, 2004

Perhaps I can get a professional knife person to make "house calls" because I live in an unsophisticated place? Robyn
Nope, you get a knife sharpener to make house calls because many knife sharpeners still make house calls. If he does a great job, make sure you keep him on your Christmas card list. And tip him well. High quality sharpening professionals are hard to find.
The problem with getting your knives sharpened is that anyone with a couple hundred bucks to invest in a grinder can call himself a knife sharpener. Mostly they do lawn mower blades and garden tools. Finding a sharpener who really knows what he's doing with kitchen knives is a real treat. But it's kind of like trying to find someone to cut your hair. You can go through several expensive mistakes before you find the right person.
Chad

We have a knife sharpener who still goes around the neighbourhood in his cart. Everyone comes out when they hear his bell go. Kids are always mistaking that sound for the ice cream man :biggrin: He comes around twice a year usually, in the fall and in the spring. I think he's about 90 yrs old. "Been sharpenin' knives for neigh onto 55 years lady" he told me once. He did miracles with the blades of my old knives. He's going to swoon when he sees my new ones.

Schielke · January 8, 2004

Do the kids run down the street with knives and scissors in their hands? :laugh:

robyn · January 9, 2004

Perhaps I can get a professional knife person to make "house calls" because I live in an unsophisticated place? Robyn
Nope, you get a knife sharpener to make house calls because many knife sharpeners still make house calls. If he does a great job, make sure you keep him on your Christmas card list. And tip him well. High quality sharpening professionals are hard to find.
The problem with getting your knives sharpened is that anyone with a couple hundred bucks to invest in a grinder can call himself a knife sharpener. Mostly they do lawn mower blades and garden tools. Finding a sharpener who really knows what he's doing with kitchen knives is a real treat. But it's kind of like trying to find someone to cut your hair. You can go through several expensive mistakes before you find the right person.
Chad

The fellow I deal with does kitchen knives - almost exclusively for restaurants (although - since I was his last customer the last time he came here - he agreed to sharpen my gardening shears/pruners in addition to my knives).

And his truck has a lot more than a simple grinding wheel. Even the guy I dealt with before him - a person who had a knife booth at a local flea market - had more than a grinding wheel. But the fellow I use now has an almost dizzying array of things in the truck. He has saved a couple of my very old favorite knives from oblivion (they're not expensive knives - but they fit my hand well - they're like old friends).

By the way - I don't see any reason to tip an owner/operator of a small business. He sets a price he thinks is fair - and I pay it. If I were dealing with an employee -a tip would be appropriate. Robyn

Chad · January 9, 2004

The fellow I deal with does kitchen knives - almost exclusively for restaurants (although - since I was his last customer the last time he came here - he agreed to sharpen my gardening shears/pruners in addition to my knives).
And his truck has a lot more than a simple grinding wheel. Even the guy I dealt with before him - a person who had a knife booth at a local flea market - had more than a grinding wheel. But the fellow I use now has an almost dizzying array of things in the truck. He has saved a couple of my very old favorite knives from oblivion (they're not expensive knives - but they fit my hand well - they're like old friends).
By the way - I don't see any reason to tip an owner/operator of a small business. He sets a price he thinks is fair - and I pay it. If I were dealing with an employee -a tip would be appropriate. Robyn

Robyn, you mistake my intent, I think. My point was that the vast majority of "professional" knife sharpeners, just aren't professional kitchen knife sharpeners. You, obviously, have found one of the good ones. That's a joy. Treasure him. He and his ilk are few and far between.

A good knife sharpener will have, if he's under 50 or so, a Tormek grinder with integral blade guides, a slack belt sander for convex edges, a paper wheel for finishing edges, and numerous other toys with which to ply his trade. Older sharpeners might have a less elaborate setup, but be able to get more out of it by dint of their experience. Again, that is a rarity. Most itinerant sharpeners deal mainly with garden tools rather than high end kitchen knives. The professional sharpener who deals primarily with restaurants and discriminating customers is a dying breed. When I said to tip him well, that was a way of saying that you have found one in a million -- keep him happy. It's like finding an artisanal cheese maker.

Chad

Nathan P. · January 9, 2004

Its going to take a lot of will power to have those two knives at home and not try them out, Dean. Is there a market for a barely used chef's knife? :biggrin:

I brought home the Ryusen 240mm chefs this afternoon. Insanely sharp though I should admit my other knives are in in need of sharpening. I'm looking forward to comparing it with a small Henkels chefs that is due back from a sharpener on Friday. I put it to use for the first time tonight and it performed well. Very small shallots that were bone dry and not crushed at all, chiffonade parsley, see through apple slices. My cooking has been rustic in 2003 but I think I will have to become a bit more formal this year- Everything in brunoise!

FYI I also confirmed that Ryusen is the maker of the Hattori knives (the 'budget' line). Fred at Japanwoodworker told me the following:

"The Ryusen is a small factory with about a 8-10 employees located in a small town called Takefu in Fukui Prefecture. In the old days, Takefu was known for its swords and armor. Ryusen does all the work themselves."... "it is a molybdenum/cobalt steel hardened to Rockwell 62-63. The Damascus material is made from a forge lamination on nickel and steel. There is considerable hand work involved in making the Damascus material as well as forging and shaping the blade. By the way, Hattori also sells these knives which they obtain from Ryusen."

Thanks to everyone for the info on this and previous knife threads that helped me find this knife.

Nathan

commodorewheeler · January 9, 2004

Chad, I'm very happy with my Hattori's (as you know) . I checked out the knife merchant website and was intrigued by the Nenox knives. I'm looking for a slicer and was thinking about the 9'' Slicer ''Sujihiki''. Any thoughts on this maker?
Joe

Haven't tried the sujihiki by Nenox, but I own the 240 mm (9.5") gyutou (chef's knife), and it's my favorite knife I've ever used. It feels great, it's well-balanced, and noticeably sharper than the Ryusen/Hattori equivalent (which I also have one of). Cutting is almost effortless with this knife. The only drawback is that it's really expensive, but if you love knives, it's probably worth it.

Speaking of expensive knives, has anyone ever tried the Tokifusa Iizuka Shigefusa knives? His Western pattern knives are very intriguing, and I'm getting tempted to get one of those...

Sign In

Knife Buying Blog

Recommended Posts

Similar Content

Recently Browsing 0 members