Nueve Cuisine:is that what it's called?

[samuelsontag]

Is there a name for what the New York times call " Nueve nouvelle Cuisine",you know, what Ferran Adria is doing

[Katherine]

Do they really call it "'nueve' nouvelle cuisine", not "'nueva' nouvelle cuisine"?

[ExtraMSG]

"Nueve" would be Spanish for "nine" whereas "nueva" would be Spanish for "new". "Nouvelle" is French for "new". So that's what you can call it: newish stuff.

[samuelsontag]

I ment nueva(thanks for pointing that out),but is that what people call it?

[Suzanne F]

I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it.

[essvee]

Hear hear, Suzanne. I have no interest in eating at El Bulli. It actually sounds kind of disgusting to me.

[Katherine]

I would gladly eat at El Bulli if someone was paying me to go to Spain to do that. Small price to pay, indeed. And immediately after, I would go awol.

[Fat Guy]

I would go with "avant-garde."

[Jason Perlow]

Its Nueva Cusina.

[Fat Guy]

I'm sure that's linguistically correct, but I think avant-garde, though derived from French, is used in this context. For example:

Vale aclarar que el currículum del cocinero –dueño de un estilo clásico y avant garde a la vez, con peinado rapado al estilo de la electrónica francesa desde hace varios años y zapatos de Commes de Garçons aún para cocinar– incluye una licenciatura en Relaciones Internacionales, antiguas jefaturas de cocina de Patagonia y Cholila, una formación en las doctrinas gastronómicas de Beatriz Chomnalez (actualmente es también el jefe de cocina de Agraz, en el Caesar Park) y en su propuesta nórdica se asoció con Robert Schlaefle y François Nouzille, creadores del bar la Cigale y quienes aportaron los conceptos de diseño.

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/2001/suple/Las1...11-02/NOTA3.HTM

[ExtraMSG]

Wouldn't "nueva cusina" be more Italian? "Cocina nueva" or "cocina alta" or "alta cocina" or "nueva cocina" or "cocina alta nueva" are phrases I've seen in Spanish before. eg, from Travesias, a Mexican magazine (accents and tildas removed by me, sorry):

La alta cocina de Espana es hoy la mas creativa e innovadora del mundo.

However, in that same article they use some other phrases, such as:

Pero es el movimiento vanguardista en Cataluna el que tiene asombrado a todo mundo.  Ferran Adria es quien se ha encargado de ponerla en el mapa, con su restaurante El Bulli y su "cocina de la deconstruccion".

I'm not sure if deconstruction has the same philosophical implications in Spanish that it does in English and French, but I would think it does. Maybe an appropriate descriptor just as "post-modern" might be proper as well, though both are probably a little ... inappropriate for food (and certainly overused by academics).

I'm sure that's linguistically correct, but I think avant-garde, though derived from French, is used in this context.

I think French words are appropriate for this sort of thing if only because nearly all avant-garde food in Europe and the US owes so much to France even when it's eclectic like El Bulli appears to be.

I could be totally full of shit, though. My Spanish is mediocre at best.

[Fat Guy]

It's never much of a surprise to see a culinary term derived from French (e.g., "chef"). But the term "avant-garde" happens just to be an excellent term in general, and strikes me as a better description of this culinary movement than any other, even though the leading lights of the movement are not French.

[Katherine]

Its Nueva Cusina.

What language is "cusina"?

[vengroff]

How about Nuevo Huevo?

It's a kind of cross-cultural new wave cooking with balls.

[Jason Perlow]

Its Nueva Cusina.

What language is "cusina"?

Yeah, its italian. My bad. Fuck it.

Cocina is no good either because it means "cooking" not cuisine. Thus Alta Cocina would be "high cooking".

[Fat Guy]

Isn't that a Cheech & Chong movie?

[Jason Perlow]

Isn't that a Cheech & Chong movie?

Chong: Hey meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaan, have you seen this foam stuff man?

Cheech: Yeah man I hear he made weed into foam, that Spanish dude.

Chong: Wow man, how do you smoke foam?

Cheech: I dunno man I think you eat it.

Cheech: Wow man.

[Katherine]

Cocina is no good either because it means "cooking" not cuisine.

"Cocina" means both "cooking" and "cuisine".

Thus "cocina venezolana" means both "Venezuelan cooking" and "Venezuelan cuisine".

[Pan]

Its Nueva Cusina.

What language is "cusina"?

Yeah, its italian.

Italian for what, Jason? Cucina is Italy for cooking/cuisine. (Cuisine of course is French for cooking.)

[tommy]

does cucina, in italian, not mean "kitchen"? or is that the literal translation rather than the commonly used meaning.

Edited November 30, 2003 by tommy (log)

[sandra]

Cocina is no good either because it means "cooking" not cuisine. Thus Alta Cocina would be "high cooking".

In Spanish:

Cocina = Kitchen

Cocinar = Cooking

Cocinero = Cook

Yo Cocino = I Cook

Tu Cocinas = You Cook

Nosotros Cocinamos = We Cook

Ellos Cocinan = They Cook

Voy a la cocina = I am going to the kitchen

Que tipo de cocina sirven? = what kind of food do they serve

Que tipo de cocina tienen? = what kind of kitchen do they have (installed)

Alta Cocina is indeed the catchment term for what comes out of the kitchen as well, exactly like cuisine is in french or cucina is in Italian -

[Pan]

Yes, cucina also means kitchen, as does cuisine.

[slkinsey]

Its Nueva Cusina.

What language is "cusina"?

Yeah, its italian. My bad. Fuck it.

Actually, it's neither. It's cucina (koo-CHEE-nah, not koo-SEE-nah), meaning "kitchen," "cooking" and "food."

Cocina is no good either because it means "cooking" not cuisine. Thus Alta Cocina would be "high cooking".

Cocina does indeed mean "cooking," "cookery" and "cuisine" (as well as "kitchen" and "stove"). I would also say that it is the appropriate Spanish equivalent of the French word cuisine, which also means "kitchen," "cookery," "cooking" and "food."

The Spanish translation of "nouvelle cuisine" is indeed "nueva cocina." That said, I think FG's use of "avant-garde" makes a lot more sense.

[ExtraMSG]

Something us English speakers forget is how much more limited Latin-based languages really are. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I've heard a lot of people complain about learning English because it's such a mish-mash of Germanic and Latin and Greek words, plus the kitchen sink thrown in for good measure. We have 20 words for any one idea and few rules of grammar that don't have a hundred exceptions.

I wonder whether that means there's more nuance in our language because we can always search for a better word and if we don't find one, just make one up, whereas Latin-based languages just use the same words for about a dozen similar things and if the word doesn't exist in Latin, then they just appropriate the foreign word, such as "beisbol". That may mean there's a lot more nuance in Latin languages, though, because you really have to understand the language to understand the meaning, a dictionary and thesaurus won't do.

Anyone know how they refer to themselves?

I saw a new one searching around through google.es:

"La Comida del Futuro": The food of the future

Somehow, I doubt that.

[slkinsey]

This is getting a little OT, but I have read that the older and more diversely-influenced a language is, the thicker the dictionary and the simpler the grammar. The English language, for example, has by far the thickest dictionary and quite simple grammar (the high incidence of irregulars notwithstanding). English is a very old language with many and diverse influences. Finnish, on the other hand, has a very thin dictionary and extremely complex grammar. Finnish is a relatively young language and has no identifiable external influences. I think this has something to do with the fact that young languages with relatively limited vocabularies need to have very complex grammar in order to convey all the complexities of meaning people would like to use. As languages age, individual words and expressions emerge that convey certain precise meanings without the need for complex grammatical constructions, and the grammar simplifies.