Blue Hill (NYC)

[cabrales]

Steve -- Overaggressive because I don't collapse in the face of certain arguments you might sometimes seek to advance? Parsing = Exposing the strengths and weaknesses in overgeneralizations, which might be why you might be an over aggressive poster.

Edited December 3, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[awbrig]

Hey guys, its Christmas season!

Don't forget to be nice!

[Wilfrid]

Yes, Steve, please consider explaining the use of "over" in "over aggressive". If you have time, of course.

[Steve Plotnicki]

No I didn't complain about any of that. But I believe that your reprinting the menu of a restaurant on the site is a sign of aggression. Let's name it;

AMPD (pronounced amped) = Aggresive Menu Posting Disorder

[cabrales]

No I didn't complain about any of that. But I believe that your reprinting the menu of a restaurant on the site is a sign of aggression. Let's name it;

AMPD (pronounced amped) = Aggresive Menu Posting Disorder

You mean noting the names of the sequence of courses that I took in, when you refer to reprinting of the menu? While I used to type in menus not otherwise available for use by other members, I no longer have the time to do that. Thus, all menus typed in in recent times are menus listing dishes sampled (perhaps you did not focus on that fact). Without the dish names, how can members know what was taken in?

Edited December 3, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[tommy]

MODQD - Multiple and Obsessive Detailed Query Disorder.

[marcus]

Cabrales -- "Aggressive posters" was genuinely not meant as a criticism of you or any individual. I recognize the right of anyone to be forceful and to post frequently. I believe that one can be overaggressive, but that is not a term that I used. My concern is that we have too few influential posters, which is leading to a lack of balance. I agree with La Nina's point, but from the perspective not of being discouraging, but that we need more posters who are knowledgeable and aggressive.

I do believe that BH has been way overdone, not because of any individual, but because possibly the board lacks the critical mass of active participants necessary to be self correcting. Without this critical mass, I thought that an authority figure such as Fat Guy could possibly help.

[Steve Plotnicki]

While I used to type in menus not otherwise available for use by other members, I no longer have the time to do that.

Well the reason is you are too busy aggressively posting the menus of what you ate.

Marcus - In all seriousness, another reason is that there aren't really many restaurants to write about. I eat at Craft on a monthly basis but I can't possibly write up every meal. There would be too much redundancy. And it's the same for Blue Hill. I couldn't possibly write up every meal.

Which restaurants of these would be interesting to here about? Daniel/Cafe Boulud/DB Bistro Moderne? All have been written up numerous times. Gotham/Union Sq Cafe/Eleven Madison Park? Even more redundant. Thank god for planes so I could go to Chicago and eat because there is nothing going on here.

[La Niña]

Steve, I wish you would write up your outer boroughs meals, of which I know there are many...(weren't you going to try some place when you went to get your mother's shoes last week?)

Edited December 3, 2002 by La Niña (log)

[jaybee]

Anyone here can be "influential and aggressive" if they have the time, inclination, and ability.

That's like saying anyone can be rich if they have the money.

[robert brown]

Steve, what about a Pullman suite on the Broadway Limited?

Your Loulou's story reminds me of what happened to us on our last visit there in August and which I meant to tell you about. Susan wanted to order the delicious anchovies she had when we there with you in March. Our waiter (not Eric's brother) told us there were none because the season was over. A few minutes later he came out from the kitchen and said that they had them after all. We noticed he did roughly the same with people at another table. In your situation, given the product involved, it was obvious that Eric was giving you special treatment. While the anchovies were as we remembered, we were, upon hearing of their availability, confused. Were we getting frozen anchovies, was the waiter lying to us, were they put aside for other clients (unlikely since only the front dining room was occupied)? Maybe we were the ones getting special treatment. It's great when you are on the receiving end of a special gesture; but how do you feel when you see it happening to others? Then to top it all off, someone at another table passed out and, as we were leaving, an ambulance arrived at the front door.

Edited December 3, 2002 by robert brown (log)

[Nick]

The country boy just has to butt in here.

Can any of you go out to eat, have a good time, and enjoy the experience without turning it into an intellectual exercise?

Define good time.

Are we talking subjectively or objectively - as in, "I had a good time," or, "A good time was had by all?"

After Plotsnitski's immortal, "Once again, taste is not subjective" (Artisanal thread), I want to be careful here.

[stefanyb]

The country boy just has to butt in here.

Can any of you go out to eat, have a good time, and enjoy the experience without turning it into an intellectual exercise?

Define good time.

Are we talking subjectively or objectively - as in, "I had a good time," or, "A good time was had by all?"

After Plotsnitski's immortal, "Once again, taste is not subjective" (Artisanal thread), I want to be careful here.

I would submit that the intellectualization of a sensual experience tends to decrease the level of enjoyment, at least at the moment of experience. Perhaps it would increase the level of enjoyment when savoring the *memory* of a sensual experience. Even if the dining experience is both a sensual and intellectual one isn’t the sensual aspect primary? Without actually smelling, tasting, feeling the textures in your mouth and swallowing, its just mental masturbation, much like posting here. Not that this isn't fun, only it lacks the sensual impact of the primary experience (unless, of course, you always eat while posting).

Edited December 4, 2002 by stefanyb (log)

[Bux]

The country boy just has to butt in here.

Can any of you go out to eat, have a good time, and enjoy the experience without turning it into an intellectual exercise?

Define good time.

Are we talking subjectively or objectively - as in, "I had a good time," or, "A good time was had by all?"

I don't know. You brought "good time" into this intellectual exercise. How can anyone have an intellectual exercise without having a good time?

[Nick]

I don't know. You brought "good time" into this intellectual exercise. How can anyone have an intellectual exercise without having a good time?  

Is intellectual exercise something one "catches" on this board with no known cure?

[tommy]

Without actually smelling, tasting, feeling the textures in your mouth and swallowing, its just mental masturbation, much like posting here.  Not that this isn't fun, only it lacks the sensual impact of the primary experience (unless, of course, you always eat while posting).

i find masturbation very enjoyable. a "good time" for sure.

carry on.

[Bux]

I would submit that the intellectualization of a sensual experience tends to decrease the level of enjoyment, at least at the moment of experience.  

I'm confused, and I probably disagree with you, but that'a aother story. I'm confused because when we're posting on the board, none of us, at least to my knowledge, are having the sensual experience that we are posting about. Am I wrong, are any of you posting from a PDA while you are eating? So all of this is post dinner talk that is going to be either intellectual or artistic (poetic?) or, at best, a bit of both.

It's worth noting that some of us take notes at some of our dinners. This is no secret and has been discussed in other threads, although perhaps more frequently on other boards than the NY board. I gather taking notes would decrease some member's level of enjoyment regarding dinner. That might imply that some of us just don't enjoy eating as much and based on the enthusiasm of the posts from those who I know take notes, that wouldn't seem to be the case.

Of course I don't take notes at Blue Hill. For one thing the tables are too close together and someone might copy my notes and give the same answers on the next test.

[La Niña]

Without actually smelling, tasting, feeling the textures in your mouth and swallowing, its just mental masturbation, much like posting here.  Not that this isn't fun, only it lacks the sensual impact of the primary experience (unless, of course, you always eat while posting).

i find masturbation very enjoyable. a "good time" for sure.

carry on.

How very amusing.

Edited December 4, 2002 by La Niña (log)

[Jinmyo]

Hm. Perhaps a friendly SuperAdmin type could prune this into two threads: One, the original BH thread which Dan and Mike and other people interested in Blue Hill can read; and the other the BS thread for the subsequent bubble and squeak.

edit:

Incision to be made half way through page 4.

Edited December 4, 2002 by Jinmyo (log)

[Nick]

...and the other the BS thread for the subsequent bubble and squeak.

[Robert Nesta Marley]

Hey guys, its Christmas season!

Don't forget to be nice! 

yeah, lighten up. you're overreacting. can't you all play nice? you guys need a vacation!

[Steve Plotnicki]

Nina - Haven't been to the boroughs in a while and haven't gone with mom for boots yet so nothing to write about. Can I write about the boots?

On this sensual/intelectual issue (I'm trying not to take the bait from NickN's comment about taste and subjectivity. Nick, I suggest you read the WS Top 100 Wine's thread on the wine board to understand the difference between taste being a matter of preference as opposed to it being a function of quality,) I think it's personal. Some people intelectualize the dining experience because they are not built in a way that allows them to be moved on a sensual level. But some people enjoy a sensual experience first and then intelectualize what it is that moved them that way. It's sort of like the difference between a person laughing at something funny and someone not being able to laugh and saying, "that's funny." Haven't you met people like that?

I never take notes at meals. And the few times I've tried I hated it. I even hate it when others at the table do it. I've been at wine tasting dinners with two dozen bottles of wine and some of the people have their heads buried in little pads for as much of the time as they are paying attention to the food, wine and company. Fortunately I have a good memory so I don't really need to take the notes and if I forget something I can usually call the people I ate with to get the information.

[macrosan]

The reason this thread is so long is that the subject matter is very interesting. What is wrong or surprizing about that ?

Sure, there was a brief explosion of aggression, brought on by our resident expert, but I was particularly glad to see that disappear after just a few posts.

Blue Hill has, I think, created a wider range of opinions than any other restaurant I have seen written up here. There are not "two camps", the likers and the dislikers, it's far more subtle than that. SteveP said many posts ago that this thread should not be black and white, it's a whole range of grays.

We have people saying the food itself, from dish to dish, ranges from superb to very disappointing. Others say the dining experience varies from day to day, or depending on whether you order from the menu or at the chef's choice, some who say they love dining there, but would not want to do so too often. A few people have said they don't want to go there again. That is an amazing array of subjective assessment.

The cooking methods are described in a variety of ways by members. Some call it subtle, others bland, some interesting and some boring. Some say it's French restaurant based, some say French bistro, and within that category some say modern and some say traditional. Some say it's American and not French. Interestingly, the one thing pretty well everyone seems to agree on is that a great deal of care is taken in the cooking.

I must say that I have been fascinated by the discussion, and I firmly resist any attempt to shorten or discourage its continuation. My first post on this thread was one of disappointment at Blue Hill, and I said I wouldn't go again because it's "not my type of food". I am now persuaded otherwise, and I will definitely go again. That's because as I have listened to what others have said, I have concluded that maybe I am missing something of value. Too many people here whose opinions I respect say they have indeed found something in the food that I have not. Maybe Blue Hill food is like so many other things culinary --- you need to persevere with it to appreciate it, and when you do appreciate it it will prove to have been worth the effort.

That would make it similar to wine, whisky, art, music ......

[Steve Plotnicki]

Sure, there was a brief explosion of aggression, brought on by our resident expert, but I was particularly glad to see that disappear after just a few posts

Macrosan - If you don't tell the truth about what happened here I will out you.

[macrosan]

Macrosan - If you don't tell the truth about what happened here I will out you.

Steve, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Please be my guest, because I'm now intrigued. Or maybe you want to PM me about it first ?

Edited December 4, 2002 by macrosan (log)