Blue Hill (NYC)

[tommy]

Note to all members, whether SuperAdmins or otherwise -- I do not subjectively intend to respond to messages (including the signature line of a poster's message) that are in fonts larger than the ones in which I post (especially comments that seem to be in bold font and in at least 22 font).  

piss off

just checking.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Those were a bunch of crap wines. For that much money they could have served something good. Ripoff.

[tommy]

jason that bastard. unhackable sig. bastard bastard bastard!

[robert40]

Cabrales, Did Wylie happen to give you any indication of when WD.50 would be opening?

Also great post. It was like the sun finely breaking thru the clouds at the end of the day if you know what I mean.

[Jason Perlow]

Note to all members, whether SuperAdmins or otherwise -- I do not subjectively intend to respond to messages (including the signature line of a poster's message) that are in fonts larger than the ones in which I post (especially comments that seem to be in bold font and in at least 22 font). 

Fine. And I have no intention of responding to posts from people that use names of spanish blue cheeses as their alias.

[cabrales]

Cabrales, Did Wylie happen to give you any indication of when WD.50 would be opening?

Robert -- No, I had intended to ask him that, but we talked only about his dish. Carmellini did not "make the rounds" during the meal, but DiSpirito did (not that that was a good thing; I'd have to say DiSpirito is quite customer-savy; his dessert was not appealing, however). Initially, Dan and Mike introduced the other (former) F&W Best New Chefs. Both seemed fairly comfortable doing that. Later on, it was more Mike who toured the room to greet diners.

Jason -- Please know that I have nothing against your signature. It's just that, last night, it was, as I recall at least, even bigger than it is now and it had two eGullet "plates with the man" logo (smaller than the version on the upper left hand corner of the index of the board, but still at least 2 inches in diamter) framing it. I appreciate every member is free to do as he pleases, but that's why I took note of your signature, as background. In the context of the recent discussions regarding MQing, I perceived your signature as a stark reminder of your status.

[Wilfrid]

It's the baseball bat he's carrying that bothers me.

[Bux]

Cabrales, could you stop all this fawning over Dan and Mike? It's getting so hard to get a reservation at Blue Hill.

And for those who didn't know of Dan's long standing as a top caterer, he did the Winsome wedding as reported in the NY Times. I believe his catering company predates the opening of Blue Hill.

[cabrales]I would gladly pay the same amount for the same evening.

[Jason Perlow, Founder, eGullet.com, jason@egullet.com]So was it worth $375?

I thought she covered that, at least in her estimation. Would you pay $375? That's another question.

[cabrales]I do not subjectively intend to respond to messages (including the signature line of a poster's message) that are in fonts larger than the ones in which I post (especially comments that seem to be in bold font and in at least 22 font).  

Can we get a more objective view of that position.

Moving right along.

[steve Plotnicki]Those were a bunch of crap wines. For that much money they could have served something good. Ripoff.

Excuse me while I pour the bottles on my shelf down the drain. Come to think of it, most of the stuff in the wine basement has to go too. I get your point relative to the pricing however. It seems as if all of the wines came courtesy of one importer and I can imagine that AmEx not only get the wine tutor free, but that the wines may have been written off by the importer as advertising. My guess is that the chefs in question may have also been honored (as opposed to paid) to participate. AmEx stockholders should be pleased. None of this is to say that cabrales was ripped. The price alone assures me this was an excellent dinner.

[Jason Perlow, etc.]And I have no intention of responding ...

I can't tell you how much I appreciate both of you letting me know when you're not responding. On most online boards it's hard to tell which responses are worth reading and which aren't. Here we can't even tell which responses exist with a scorecard.

[Jason Perlow]

In the context of the recent discussions regarding MQing, I perceived your signature as a stark reminder of your status.

I was playing around with different signatures and avatars last night, it was indeed too large. I decided to settle on the current one until I can get one that is more aesthetically pleasing

stark reminder? Thats for addressing Josef Stalin, not Jason Perlow.

[cabrales]

Jason -- :laugh:

I believe his catering company predates the opening of Blue Hill.

Bux -- Dan's catering does predate Blue Hill. The presentation of the hors d'oeuvres was varied, across platters, and very visually appealing. For example, some items were on individual black-colored rocks that were themselves on a platter. The black corn tart and eggplant item was served on little scallop (or similar) shells. Visual appeal cannot save a poor-tasting item, but here the hors d'oeuvres were both delicious and visually appealing.

[cabrales]I would gladly pay the same amount for the same evening.

[Jason Perlow, Founder, eGullet.com, jason@egullet.com]So was it worth $375?

I thought she covered that, at least in her estimation. Would you pay $375? That's another question.

I edited my post after Jason's post was in place, to address the price question because others had raised it earlier in the thread.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Excuse me but Jaboulet is a crap, commercial winery. There must be a dozen better producers in Cornas who make top quality wine, For them to have a dinner with five top chefs who are basically known for cooking with artisinal ingredients, and then to offer wine that is the equivelent of a Kendall Jackson is more then a ripoff, it's a crime that shouldn't be allowed by the food police. And even if you didn't take that into consideration, you can pick up a bottle of the Jaboulet at Berry Bros. in London today for about 15 pounds. When you charge $375 for a dinner that might ordinarily cost $80, and the wineries you serve are all third tier, you deserve to be called a ripoff.

[tommy]

you're excused.

[cabrales]

For an event of this nature, one can't expect top quality wines to be included. Otherwise, that would have been advertised by AmEx and/or Food & Wine. Part of why I saw the event as being particularly worthwhile was that I wanted to show support for Blue Hill and to share in an event that was (presumably) signfiicant to the restaurant.

[Jinmyo]

And even if you didn't take that into consideration, you can pick up a bottle of the Jaboulet at Berry Bros. in London today for about 15 pounds. When you charge $375 for a dinner that might ordinarily cost $80, and the wineries you serve are all third tier, you deserve to be called a ripoff.

[Steve Plotnicki]

It doesn't have to be top quality wines. Decent wines will do. Lesser quality negociant bottlings are not acceptable especially given the style these chefs cook in. And it isn't even a matter of price. If one was interested, they could serve decent wines at the same price point. An $11 Cote de Rhone made artisinally would be more in keeping with the point of the evening then a mass-produced, commercial wine that cossts 2-3 times the price. At this point, even the airlines offer better wines in business class then what they served you at that dinner. That is totally unacceptable. As for why you went and your show of support, what that has to do with the price being a ripoff is beyond me? It doesn't change the fact that you were served top quality food, and the wines you were served were among the lowest quality around and I can't imagine they were served for any other reason then the importer (I believe Wildman has Jaboulet) was stuck with them.)

[Wilfrid]

Cabby, I couldn't find your comments about value.

I am still slightly staggered by the cost. An $80 meal, as Steve said - and must we assume these wines were being poured by the glass? The Pol Roger might set you back $18, but I can't make the wine bill more than about $60. Were they pouring multiple glasses?

Could I also ask if the price included tip, tax and everything. I don't know how they get from $80 + $60= $140 to the actual price of $375.

[GordonCooks]

Cabby, I couldn't find your comments about value. 

I am still slightly staggered by the cost.  An $80 meal, as Steve said - and must we assume these wines were being poured by the glass?  The Pol Roger might set you back $18, but I can't make the wine bill more than about $60.  Were they pouring multiple glasses?

Could I also ask if the price included tip, tax and everything.  I don't know how they get from $80 + $60= $140 to the actual price of $375.

The extra $ 235.00 covers your annual subscription to "Departures" magazine.

[Bux]

In Cabby's defense, I don't think she's ever said more than she was happy to pay the price to honor the Blue Hill boys and that she enjoyed the meal. Value was not foremost in her mind. I don't think you will find many who would argue that this was an economical way to get the same food. Two separate meals--one at Blue Hill and the other at your restaurant of choice from the list--would probably get you food that was as good or better and at less cost. In any event, I'd be surprised if wines were doled out strictly one glass to a customer. I would expect a little judicious refilling at worst and freepouring at best. Even at restaurants where I thought the paired wines were a good value, I've noticed an occasional refill or top off offered to ensure an enjoyable meal.

Steve P., I've hardly meant to imply that the wines chosen were ideally suited or particularly good representations of their appellation. I think your point that there are more interesting wines at lower cost that would have been more appropriate is an excellent one. It goes against all I've learned on this board about equating quality with price, but you've made a good point.

Nevertheless, I suppose crap is relative and one might have expected better, but is American Express often associated with that kind of quality and value? They're looking for the big spenders. Sy Syms is the guy looking for the educated consumer.

[cabrales]

I don't think the F&W dinner is readily comparable to a "regular" meal where one has only one (or in Blue Hill's case, two) chef cooking. One can't say that a dinner in which one has five chefs cooking should be priced like a regular dinner.

On the poured quantities, I would say we received about a glass of every wine. There were re-pours, but in limited amounts. The champagne for the reception segment was more readily available, and I had two glasses.

However, addressing Wilfrid's computations. Let's say the before tax and tip comparable pricing were $140, for the sake of discussion. After tips and 20% tips, that's $180 that might be the appropriate baseline number.

Wilfrid -- Here's the quote:

If the same meal were at Blue Hill, I would gladly pay the same amount for the same evening.  

[robert40]

OK, Maybe the wines where not up to par with the cuisine that was served,But it seem's to me Cabrales found it enjoyable and worth the cost.

And how often do you get to converse with five top chefs and discuss there cuisine? For me that would be worth the cost alone.

I also commend her on supporting Blue Hill. which is something we should all consider if we don't want the day to come when all the bread sticks and salad you can eat will be societys idea of fine cuisine

[Wilfrid]

And how often do you get to converse with five top chefs and discuss there cuisine?

I can see that doing five in one night will help to nudge Cabby's weekly average up.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I feel like you guys are apologizing for the poor wines (and that list is really poor) because you like Blue Hill. I like Blue Hill as much as anyone. But crap wines are crap wines. If Cabby paid $375 and they served her frozen TV dinners, her liking them alot wouldn't make them any better then they really are. Do you think she would feel the same way about the meal, or any of you would be defending it if they used mass produced, hormone and antibiotic injected meats and poultry? Good is good, crap is crap, value is value and a ripoff is a ripoff. And to say that it's all relative only degradates things that are of high quality and good value. And it seems to me this dinner did more to support American Express Platinum and Food & Wine then it did Blue Hill. If you want to support Blue Hill it's easy, eat there and eat there often. But what does any of that have to do with the cost of the meal being 2-3 times what it is really worth?

[tommy]

you're excused.

[Wilfrid]

And to say that it's all relative only degradates things ...

Deja vu.

But I am puzzled about this notion of "supporting" Blue Hill. Does it mean the dinner was intended to help promote the restaurant, or was it some way of raising money for the restaurant - and if the latter, why? Because I do agree that the question whether the price was reasonable is logically distinct from the question whether Cabby had a good time and didn't mind the price.

The sober calculation seems to be that the meal was about 45% over-priced, and that does seem worthy of notice.

[Steve Plotnicki]

The sober calculation seems to be that the meal was about 45% over-priced, and that does seem worthy of notice.

I can't even get that far because those wines are unacceptable for a "special dinner" at any price. To say that people pay $X for them at retail, so that means it adds $X of value to the meal is not a valid argument to me if the wines aren't up to the standard of the rest of the meal to begin with.