Blue Hill (NYC)

[Bux]

Clearly, or not so clearly, there are many subjective degrees of grace and some people apply the term to any socially accepted behavior while others save if for more saintly behavior. And it's true that at a certain level one expects graciousness from a joint that's part of the hospitality industry. I'm reminded of a young woman of some charm at the front desk of a hotel In Lyon, France. We were having a problem communicating with a less than helpful airline representative while using the desk phone. She noticed and suggested that she could intercede for us. Her French was certainly better than ours. She solved our problem after a few minutes on line, but when she hung up the phone, the first words out of her mouth were, "and that woman is in the hospitality industry." While the customer is not always right, some people don't do what they're paid to do for the customer either, so what's expected may well be seen as gracious. Oh yeah, the hotel was the Grand Condorde, a gracious hotel, but not that ritzy and not the most expensive in Lyon.

No one ever gets their right to post revoked for being wrong. If that were so, we'd be shrinking rather than growing as a site. We all suffer misapprehensions and eGullet is more successful if in the end, we all learn something rather than just not make mistakes.

As for the wine, if it's not what it should be, the house should take it back, just as it should take back salad with a worm or soup with a fly. It's not so much that the diner rejects the wine, as it is that the house is not expected to serve wine that's off. In fact, I've seen very elegant restaurants where the sommelier will taste the wine to be sure it's okay. That seems to make some people suspicious, but any sommelier whose palate is not far better than mine in this regard, shouldn't be holding the position. A good sommelier will probably reject more wines than I would. Maybe that's the reason most restaurants want the diner to taste the wine. For every diner who tries to return a good bottle just because he doesn't like it, or worse yet because he's showing off, there are many diners who are too timid to return a bottle, especially when it's borderline and they're not sure. I'm sorry if I've appeared less than gracious in my post or if I misread your remarks. I find that some people do believe they taste a wine to see if they like it and I don't want to see that misapprehension perpetuated on eGullet.

[Pan]

Mjc, I think it's perhaps a pity the server didn't ask what you found less than fully satisfying about the dish. I would think they would want to know for their own possible benefit.

For what it's worth, my other comment is: Have no fear of having your posting privileges revoked and don't take Bux's remarks as an insult. He's making an important point (which I agree with) emphatically, but not by way of pointing at you and saying you are, therefore, a Hell-bound sinner.

[Erez]

My girlfriend and I had dinner at Blue Hill earlier this month http://www.bluehillnyc.com/. The food was very good and I think the space is nice, atmosphere warm, overall it was a quite a pleasant dining experience.

I was left scratching my head regarding a few things that happened during the course of the meal. We ordered a bottle of Riesling from the wine list, a German Riesling. Our server brought the bottle over to the table for us to examine. After my girlfriend gave her approval the waiter than took the bottle back to the bar for uncorking. I found it out of course from my usual experience of having wine opened right in front of you at the table. Am I incorrect? I did observe our waiter do this same thing at another table but could not tell if it was a restaurant-wide practice or just limited to our server. I enjoy having the bottle opened in front of my eyes, particularly where the waiter or sommelier is very adept and smooth, for the aesthetic of the whole experience. It's also reassuring to see the actual bottle you are going to be drinking uncorked for your own eyes to see. Am I being too paranoid on this? Do other restaurants like Blue Hill uncork wine the same way?

My second observation concerned dessert. My girlfriend and I were both tempted by the tasting menu for our main course but opted instead for two apps and two main courses. When the dessert menu arrived I was taken by the "Dessert Flight." This is the dessert tasting menu with a selection of four or five different items. We decided that this, with some coffee, would be a perfect combination to share and end our meals. When I advised the waiter that we wanted the Dessert Flight to share he informed me that this item was not designed to be shared. We ended ordering two individual desserts, which, by the way, cost less together than the dessert flight. Should I have insisted on just getting the dessert tasting menu and decide if it could be shared or not for myslef? Curious to hear comments on this issue as well.

Thanks

[tommy]

i've noticed that sommeliers will often walk away and open the bottle discreetly, oftentimes giving it a sniff or a taste.

[robert40]

I just noticed the new pastry chefs name is no longer posted on their site.

I cant remember his name but does anyone know if he is no longer there?

RR

[coughy]

Erez - my husband and I are dining there next week. can you be more specific on what you ate?

[sammy]

I was there last month with my wife and we shared the dessert flight. Other than the chocolate bread pudding, you didn't miss much. We both thought they were trying to hard to create interesting desserts rather than desserts that tasted good.

The appetizers and entrees, on the other hand, were delicious. The best dishes were the crabmeat lasagne app and the lamb entree.

We only had wines by the glass so I can't comment on the wine opening stuation.

[mjc]

As i've said before, I thought each of the desserts in the flight were excellent on my trip there and strongly reccomend trying it. Erez--What two desserts did you have and how were they?

[jogoode]

Erez - my husband and I are dining there next week. can you be more specific on what you ate?

There's lots of good Blue Hill talk here.

But I want to know what you ate, too. (When I went I was allowed to share the dessert flight -- I was unimpressed overall. Most of the desserts were just not very interesting, but one particular dessert involving avocado was awful in concept and flavor.

[Pan]

We both thought they were trying to hard to create interesting desserts rather than desserts that tasted good.

That's a very interesting and quotable line. Please elaborate when you have a chance.

Have you been to Chikalicious? Would you say Chika & Company's desserts are both interesting and delicious?

[sammy]

We both thought they were trying to hard to create interesting desserts rather than desserts that tasted good.

That's a very interesting and quotable line. Please elaborate when you have a chance.

Have you been to Chikalicious? Would you say Chika & Company's desserts are both interesting and delicious?

As an example, the now famous/infamous dessert with the avocado and I believe a lime brulee. Interesting use of an avocado, especially in contrast with a crunchy brulee but it doesn't really taste good. There was also a cheesecake that was interesting because it had an unbelievably light consistency, almost like air, but I would rather have a more traditional cheesecake any day of the week. Another dessert was an apple terrine that had the taste of a good tartin but here it was the consistency that bothered me, too jello like. Why not just serve a really good tartin and call it a day? The exception was a chocolate bread pudding with homemade ice cream. That tasted good and no surprise, was the most traditional in the bunch.

[Pan]

Thanks, Sammy. That was very clearly put.

[chefette]

The pastry chef (Pierre Reboul) has apparently terminated his relationship with Blue Hill or perhaps Blue Hill terminated their relationship with Pierre - not sure which.

It was extremely disappointing when he had volunteered to do an exciting demo for the IHMRS Nov 8 but then due to changing circumstances and priorities in his life opted not to participate leaving many disappointed attendees.

So perhaps Blue Hill has decided to revert to their previous pastry chef free ways or maybe they are in the market for someone new. May be an opportunity.

[chefette]

Sammy - I am interested in your reaction to the desserts. Did you find that you did not respond well to them since they were doing 'takes' on traditional desserts but using traditional names? Would you have liked the desserts better if the names had prepared you mentally for something different? Or did you just not enjoy them?

Or, as yet another alternative - do you feel that you just prefer more old fashioned simple desserts?

Now, traditional desserts have their place and like any dessert when well done are delicious, but the issue is are they appropriate? After the food style, presentation, and preparations at Blue Hill, would you not fing a hunk of cheesecake or a tart tatin out of place and stodgy? Did your lack of enjoyment for these desserts stem from pure reaction to the desserts themselves or is this reflective of an internal bias toward more traditional desserts? Interested to hear your response. As in - are there any circumstances under which you would have enjoyed the desserts? Naming, presentation...

Edited November 21, 2003 by chefette (log)

[sammy]

Sammy - I am interested in your reaction to the desserts.  Did you find that you did not respond well to them since they were doing 'takes' on traditional desserts but using traditional names?  Would you have liked the desserts better if the names had prepared you mentally for something different?  Or did you just not enjoy them?

Or, as yet another alternative - do you feel that you just prefer more old fashioned simple desserts? 

Now, traditional desserts have their place and like any dessert when well done are delicious, but the issue is are they appropriate?  After the food style, presentation, and preparations at Blue Hill, would you not fing a hunk of cheesecake or a tart tatin out of place and stodgy?  Did your lack of enjoyment for these desserts stem from pure reaction to the desserts themselves or is this reflective of an internal bias toward more traditional desserts?  Interested to hear your response.  As in - are there any circumstances under which you would have enjoyed the desserts?  Naming, presentation...

I would have enjoyed them more if they tasted better.

I understand your point with the cheesecake and tarte tatin and I agree, I think they'd be out of place at Blue Hill. I only used the comparison to "more traditional" desserts because I believe the intent was to copy the basic idea but be more creative.

Just to make myself clearer, I love dessert and have had wonderful desserts at many fine restaurants. These just weren't appealing to me, the taste of most and the texture of some.

Edited November 21, 2003 by sammy (log)

[chefette]

Thanks for responding Sammy - I was curious since I have done several very untraditional things but like the fun of naming them with a traditional name. Your post though made me stop and think that mental preparation can really affect your recpetion of a dessert since as soon as you read off the title you are conjuring up in your brain the image and sensations of something and getting something unexpected is not always welcome.

We ate at Blue Hill this summer and I recall that we had the avacodo thing (interesting as something different - but I did not like it) I don't actually recall what else we had unfortunately.

[sammy]

I don't know if he was first but Keller is big on the amusing names for dishes like coffee and donuts, peas and carrots, etc. The difference is they taste good.

[Hypnotic]

Sammy,

About your wine experience, I have been to restaurants ( usually the high end variety ) where the wine is shown at the table, tasted by the customer, taken away, then brought back in a decanter. Also, I've noticed that the sommelier will sometimes taste the wine themselves.

What you're describing does sound a little strange. They did bring back the bottle to the table right? (As opposed to keeping the bottle on ice elsewhere, then refilling your glasses when necessary. I've seen that method also.) Maybe your waiter was not adept at opening a bottle of wine, and wanted to spare himself the embarrassment ??

[docsconz]

I had dinner with some friends at Blue Hill on saturday. The Sommalier, I believe her name is Pam, was delightful and very helpful. The 6 of us had the tasting menu. The first course was a grilled hamachi with a "marmalade". This was followed by lobster with ginger sauce over grill-cakes. This dish was awesome. We had a 2001 CDP blanc from Pierre Usseglio with both of the courses. It was a delicious wine- crisp acidity balanced with delightful fruit. It was a fine match with both courses. It was opened at the table. I tasted it and it was immediately poured, then left at the table in a chiller canister.

The next course was guinea hen with mushrooms, chestnuts, sauteed romaine and salsify. This was fantastic. The guinea hen is certainly not just another chicken. We had a 2000 rioja from Remelluri recommended by the sommalier. While internationally styled with oak, it had a lot of bright fruit with an earthiness that complemented the mushrooms well. Once again, the wine was opened in front of us. I tasted it and it was immediately poured. The bottle was left on the table.

After reading some of the posts here about the desserts, I was sceptical to the point of foregoing them and heading to Chikalicious. The problem was that Chika doesn't take reservations on Saturdays and we were told that we would likely have a long wait if we came in after 9PM. Since we decided on the tasting menu we went ahead with desserts at Blue Hill. While I can't say they were the greatest I've ever had, that were quite good and certainly nothing for the restaurant to be ashamed of. The first was an absolutely refreshing citrus gelee, that we all would have loved more of. Next was the chocolate bread pudding. This was good but not exceptional until mixed with some crunchy stuff at the bottom of the pudding. "Peanut butter and jelly (concord grape)" and an apricot jelly pastry finished the meal.

The meal was quite delicious and quite satisfying as well. I look forward to returning there as well as the Stone Barns project when it opens.

[sammy]

Since we decided on the tasting menu we went ahead with desserts at Blue Hill. While I can't say they were the greatest I've ever had, that were quite good and certainly nothing for the restaurant to be ashamed of. The first was an absolutely refreshing citrus gelee, that we all would have loved more of. Next was the chocolate bread pudding. This was good but not exceptional until mixed with some crunchy stuff at the bottom of the pudding. "Peanut butter and jelly (concord grape)" and an apricot jelly pastry finished the meal.

There were rumors that Blue Hill's pastry chef left as he was no longer mentioned on their website. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

[docsconz]

I didn't specifically ask