Price bump for "specials" - why?

[phaelon56]

Just back from a short business trip to my favorite place - NYC. Had dinner by myself Friday night and decided to try an Argentian Italian restaurant, Il Campanello, on West 31st Street. I stumbled across it by accident the previous evening when walking to my hotel and it looked nice enough so off I went the following evening for a meal.

Most of the pasta dishes were $12 - $13 and the chicken dishes were all in the $14 - $15 range with no exceptions. The waiter mentioned the dinner specials and a chicken dish with sausage, peas and a brown sauce sounded appealing so I ordered it. Imagine my surprise when the bill arrived and the entree was $19!!! I typically always ask the price of any special before ordering and suppose it was my own fault for failing to do so this time but come on.... get real.... a $4 upcharge because it was the "special"?

Am I being naive or unrealistic to think that it should be approximately the same price range or perhaps a $1 or $2 more at most than all the other comparable chicken dishes on the menu? Have others of you encountered this as a trend or practice in places where you've dined recently, NYC or otherwise? Just curious....

[Sinbad]

Price bump for "specials" - why? To extract a few dollars more out of unsuspecting diners in quite a few cases.

Many specials are not really specials, they are featured almost daily. They are just not printed on the menu and there is no reason for a price bump in this case. However, many diners do not care to ask for the cost of the specials and they might also believe that the dish contain some special ingredients that the restaurant obtained for that day which would justify the price hike. Many times that is not the case.

Also, I have seen cases when the specials have moved from the verbal to the printed menu and the price dropped 20% (after it had appeared as a dinner special for at least three months every time I ate there).

Not every restaurant does this, but there are quite a few that does it. Also, sometimes the special is actually special and the price hike is justified. In your case (Chicken with Sausage, peas and brown sauce) it sounds like it was not justified at all.

[phaelon56]

Yes.... unjustified I think. I'm still kicking myself for not askign the price as I dont' think I've ever ordered a special without asking the price but so often they're seafood, beef or veal dishes with a twist and the price seems less predictable.

By the way.... the entree was a generous portion and interesting in that the sausage seemed to be somewhere in between chorizo and Italian sausage - not the stuff one usually finds in Italian restaurants. The minestrone soup, OTOH, was okay as a vegetable soup (lots of fresh zucchini, carrots etc.) but it was not like any minestrone I've ever had. It had a fairly bland vegetable broth as a base and had absolutely NOT pasta or tomoatoes.

[Bux]

Am I being naive or unrealistic to think that it should be approximately the same price range or perhaps a $1 or $2 more at most than all the other comparable chicken dishes on the menu? Have others of you encountered this as a trend or practice in places where you've dined recently, NYC or otherwise? Just curious....

I think it's realistic to think most specials should be at approximately the same range, or at least within the upper range of comparable dishes on the menu. I think it's unrealistically naive to think they would be in the same ballpark. I'm not fond of ordering specials in restaurants I don't know well precisely for that reason. Half the time, I don't even listen to the specials. I often make it a point of asking about the price however, even when I'm not interested.

Sometimes there's a reason for the price increase. The last time I ordered a special, it was because the chef told me he was saving an order for us. I didn't ask the price, but suspected it was going to be the most expensive thing on the menu that night, as it was. It was worth the price, although it was also more food than I wanted to eat. I was not told the price and didn't ask. I also noted that only one other table in the room seemed to have been told about that special. It was clearly special and apparently offered only to regulars. It was, I suppose, one of those if-you-need-to-ask-the-price-you're-not-likely-to-think-it-was-worth-it kind of things.

Back to your question. Is this a NYC thing? I don't know. I live here and often find it annoying. I'm making a mental note to remember to ask the price more often, just because.

[Batgrrrl]

I'm not in the restaurant biz, but I can see justification for this, if it truly is a special that changes nightly. For things that are regularly on the menu, the kitchen staff have a routine down that they are familiar with. A special that changes nightly requires a shifting of gears for everyone involved, from the chefs to the servers who need to learn those dishes, and that requires more time and labor. It would then make sense that, if a former special proves popular enough to become a regular menu item, the price would drop; it would have become routine itself.

On the other hand, I would not be surprised to find that some restaurants do take unfair advantage of customer's lack of knowledge regarding how "special" a special really is.

Your assumption that they'd be in the same general range is counter to my experience, in New York and elsewhere, which is that specials are almost always at least a bit more expensive. Or there will be one that is in the menu range, and a couple at varying degrees higher.

Batgrrrl

[juuceman]

isn't this what everyone who ever bitches about Il Mulino bitches about??

[jogoode]

At Celeste a few weeks ago my dad ordered the pasta special, a very simple dish with fresh tagliatelle, eggplant, zucchini, etc... which ended up being about $4-5 more expensive than the regular pastas, although some of the regulars contain cheese and one uses shrimp.

I'm not sure but couldn't the surcharge result when a restaurant orders a small quantity of an ingredient to use in a special as opposed to the lower price they might get for bulk purchases of their usual ingredients. I don't know much about the business-side of restaurants but it sounds plausible.

[herbacidal]

At Celeste a few weeks ago my dad ordered the pasta special, a very simple dish with fresh tagliatelle, eggplant, zucchini, etc... which ended up being about $4-5 more expensive than the regular pastas, although some of the regulars contain cheese and one uses shrimp.

I'm not sure but couldn't the surcharge result when a restaurant orders a small quantity of an ingredient to use in a special as opposed to the lower price they might get for bulk purchases of their usual ingredients. I don't know much about the business-side of restaurants but it sounds plausible.

it's definitely plausible. it's a solid reason for the difference.

but there's 2 separate things there that didn't go together well:

the price gap, the non-telling.

about the price gap, prices for the special item will definitely be higher because there's a lesser quantity/different supplier/etc.

but you compensate for that by maybe using less expensive other ingredients/less of the ingredient/less of other ingredients/remove steps from the plating process/etc.

and if that all doesn't work, and there's still a $4-5 difference, as an owner/manager, you'd better be damm sure the waiter doesn't forget to tell the customer.

or that the customer will be okay with it after the fact. which may be the case more often.

the servers not telling prices for specials is an oft-repeated gripe, though. the price gap adds fuel to the fire in a related, but different manner.

[newguy]

I grew up in northern NJ and spent many evenings in NYC restaurants. I automatically assume specials are considerably more money than regular dishes. Maybe it is just an east cost or larger market thing to do.

I am also a cook. Specials often aren't necessarily more expensive to produce, they often contain the same ingredients already in the restaurant. Our's also change weekly. However, the fish for instance is ordered special for the specials. Occasionally it is flown in from different places, which may increase the price slightly.

This is an interesting topic.

[tommy]

i wonder if the sausage was house made?

aside from that, what batgrrl said. the first part at least.

[newguy]

There really isn't "labor" involved in changing or adding a dish to a menu. Tell the waiters what is in the dish and they write it down. Tell a cook what is in the dish and they have to prep it, so they will automatically know what the dish is at time of service.

[tommy]

There really isn't "labor" involved in changing or adding a dish to a menu.  Tell the waiters what is in the dish and they write it down.  Tell a cook what is in the dish and they have to prep it, so they will automatically know what the dish is at time of service.

you don't think there's overhead involved in a chef presenting new dishes to the staff on a regular basis, and ensuring quality control and proper execution?

at the end of the day, sub-par restaurants have specials that aren't all that special. most notable places seem to raise the bar a bit with their specials, whether that be via ingredients or execution. if a chef comes back from the market with some incredible looking whole artichokes, and the line cook as never seen one, and the prep guy has never prepped one, well there's some overhead right there.

good waiters are more than scribes. they know the dishes, and they understand the dishes.

Edited November 11, 2003 by tommy (log)

[newguy]

We don't have prep cooks, we all do our own prep. If there is something that is unknown to one of us, the sous chef will help out, which is a portion of his job. We will go to the market twice a week. Occasionally there we'll see something and say "let's use that" and we'll buy it without a dish in mind, just a product.

The restaurant is fancy, all the dishes are nice. Specials are nice dishes that come up weekly, in addition to the rest of the menu. If it's presented to the wait staff, it takes 2 minutes, so what. Thats not exactly "labor" that is going to raise a dish $7 or something.

[tommy]

We don't have prep cooks, we all do our own prep.  If there is something that is unknown to one of us, the sous chef will help out, which is a portion of his job.  We will go to the market twice  a week.  Occasionally there we'll see something and say "let's use that" and we'll buy it without a dish in mind, just a product.

The restaurant is fancy, all the dishes are nice.  Specials are nice dishes that come up weekly, in addition to the rest of the menu.  If it's presented to the wait staff, it takes 2 minutes, so what.  Thats not exactly "labor" that is going to raise a dish $7 or something.

what about the scribes? they understand the dish in 2 minutes?

Edited November 11, 2003 by tommy (log)

[newguy]

It's really fairly impressive what takes place. Sometimes the sous chef will just say "new special, it's X ingredient, cook it this way, with Y, & Z, do it." I ordered monkfish for the special etc...

Sometimes it's "hey i got this calamari, what should i do with it?" Then the ideas start bouncing all over the kitchen. Then somehow a dish comes out of it.

When one is made for the wait staff, once they eat it, they know it which is why it's done. They have an easy time describing something they've eaten 30 minutes before service.

I'm not sure if this procedure is the "norm" everywhere, but I always found it impressive.

I've had days where a special was created when i'm on my day off. This isn't exactly easy because all the prep is in my box, so at service time, I don't know what it looks like or how it should be cooked to order etc... It's much easier when I see/prep the special.

[tommy]

I've had days where a special was created when i'm on my day off.  This isn't exactly easy because all the prep is in my box, so at service time, I don't know what it looks like or how it should be cooked to order etc... It's much easier when I see/prep the special.

and there's the 4 dollars right there.

seriously though, there is an assumption that restaurants are out to screw the customer. i don't see it often, as i just don't go to those places.

Edited November 11, 2003 by tommy (log)

[newguy]

this is what i find interesting. My entire life specials have cost more than regular dishes. I just automatically assumed that it's just because it's not on the regular menu. I very rarely order specials, and won't order one if they don't give the price of the dish.

I'm really not sure what the justification is to raise the prices. I'm not quite sure what the markup is, if any at the place I work. It's not exactly cheap, there, but on a busy saturday night, we could sell 20 or maybe more.

[tommy]

as with most things, it's the exceptions to the norm that cost the most to a company. i think specials fit into this, in a loose sort of way.

[newguy]

The one reason I could see ordering specials is maybe there is an unsual fish they don't know or a different cut of meat a customer might not know. Then people may say, that sounds interesting, I'll try it out.

[tommy]

The one reason I could see ordering specials is maybe there is an unsual fish they don't know or a different cut of meat a customer might not know. Then people may say, that sounds interesting, I'll try it out.

as far as why people order specials, i order specials because they're something different, and hopefully showcase seasonal ingredients and the chef's imagination more-so than the usual menu items, which i've probably had many times before if i'm a regular.

[newguy]

the place I work is completely seasonal, menu changes 4 times a year (at least). Products are bought at the market, so there is basically no chance of using a non-seasonal ingredient. I find that they are usually creative, not more than the usual menu, but different because it's not on the menu. It keeps the interest of a lot of people to change it weekly. Certain menu items aren't always the most creative because there are people that don't eat "everything." A special I suppose you can do whatever you want with because people don't have to order it if they are looking for something more "mild."

[tommy]

the place I work is completely seasonal, menu changes 4 times a year (at least).

but there are far more seasons than 4, when it comes to ingredients (you know that, i know). additionally, the morels might look really freakin good on tuesday and not so hot on thursday. i'd hope the black bass with morels would show up on the menu on tuesday, assuming the black bass was smokin' that morning.

again, not all restaurants work like i suggest, or like yours. however, i think there's some validity to the points being brought up here regarding supplemental charges and peoples' reasons for ordering specials.

Edited November 11, 2003 by tommy (log)

[newguy]

All true points. We use the morels when they are in, Chanterells now etc... It may not the the meat/fish that drives the special, it might just be what the sous chef thought was interesting that day. Maybe someone ate something somewhere and was inspired to create something else etc... It is fun to see them created.

A lot of the dishes are product driven and can use almost any protein. Not substituting meat or fish. I think the specials created for meat, need any type of meat protein. For instance we couldn't take say grouper and switch it up for some hangar prep because it wouldn't be right. But maybe there is grouper with a certain prep. We could easily use halibut, or bass, or skate or whatever they liked when buying.

[Pan]

I get specials occasionally. The most common reason for me to get a special is that the ingredients sound special. If they don't, I won't pay a surcharge. And yes, I generally find like others who've posted to this thread that in New York, specials cost significantly more than the average dish on the menu. For example, if mains hover around $13-17, specials are likely to run around $20. And I always ask what something will cost if I don't know. The exceptions were at two Chinese restaurants in Malaysia last summer, where I ordered fish and they served me their good fish that I would and did like, knowing that it would cost a lot for a Malaysian, but being mindful of the highly advantageous exchange rate of dollars to ringgit. My last dinner in Malaysia was very expensive for a Malaysian, but still cost under $20 and was fabulous.

[herbacidal]

I get specials occasionally. The most common reason for me to get a special is that the ingredients sound special. If they don't, I won't pay a surcharge.

specials cost significantly more than the average dish on the menu. For example, if mains hover around $13-17, specials are likely to run around $20.

i agree. on both counts.