When Good Restaurants Turn Bad...

[thereuare]

I am sad to report that my most recent addition to my "favorite restaurant list" has taken a turn for the worse...

In business for just over a year, my neighborhood restaurant had built a loyal following and was noticably busier week after week. My wife and I enjoyed the food very much and were pleased to see them do well, and we soon became 'regulars'. They had their occaisional problems, but the staff was so friendly and nice, and the food so good, that we had no problem overlooking their sporadic short-comings.

On our last few visits over the last 2 months i noticed the owner was absent from his usual perch; as well, each visit revealed waitstaff we had never seen before (this wasn't a total surprise as there was indeed frequent turnover on the front end). Our meal started off poorly and went downhill from there, noticable enough to have me inquire if they're under new ownership and indeed the restaurant was sold.

So my question to all of those in the industry... how common is it for a restaurant to sell-out just after their first year of ownership? Although business was good and obviously trending better, i find it odd that an entrepeneur would put so much time and effort into building a business and then sell out in its infancy. From the buyer's perspective, just how much is such a young business worth?

(optional reading below):

As i'm sure somebody would want to know 'what went wrong with our meal' i'll try to give the lowlights:

-we were told we couldn't sit at our table of choice because it was 'reserved' (this isn't a reservation type of place and as i said above, the restaurant was virutally empty). By the time we left, a full 90 minutes after we arrived due to slow service, nobody came to sit at that table

-after placing our orders we waited over an hour to get served, while guests that entered after us were served before us (no, we didn't order appetizers or anything that would account for the delay)

-when the meals were served, they came out piecemeal, with 5 minute lags between each person's entree. The hot side dish we ordered was cold.

-i was served the wrong entree, and when i told them what i had ordered i was told, "yeah, that's what that is" (it wasn't)

I approached the new owner to discuss my disatisfaction with the problems of the 'reserved' table and the excessive delay for our meals to get served. He said "he'd take care of it" which he tried to do by offering us a $1.50 order of naan on the house. He also brought us some dessert on the house which we didn't eat because we were already late for our evening plans (due to the terrible service). So the owner did make some sort of an effort, but as we brought an out of town relative here with the expectaion of a good meal, it was such a disappointment that i don't think i'll be returning anytime soon.

It's a shame, because this restaurant was a local favorite.

[tommy]

So my question to all of those in the industry... how common is it for a restaurant to sell-out just after their first year of ownership?  Although business was good and obviously trending better, i find it odd that an entrepeneur would put so much time and effort into building a business and then sell out in its infancy.  From the buyer's perspective, just how much is such a young business worth?

rather than "how much was it worth", perhaps the question is "how much did it cost to keep open." the guy probably couldn't afford it anymore. that's obviously just one possibility.

[glenn]

Top 5 reasons to sell a successful restaurant.

1. He decided he didn't wanna spend 70 hours a week working and was afraid to take off because shithead staff would make regular customers sit at irregular tables and serve them the wrong food. Also, in a business which takes in mostly cash or a large amount of cash - any business - you either gotta find someone you can trust or you gotta be there all the time. Even if you're there, an enterprising bartender or server can still steal you blind.

2. Despite being popular, he wasn't making money, or not enough to justify spending 70 hours working (see #1). Really, restaurants are a tough business and it's not easy to make a decent profit.

3. He made enough money to retire.

4. He found that being in a restaurant interfered with his south beach diet.

5. You get the idea... it's all sheer conjecture. But if you get the inside dope, let us know!

[mavis]

Ahhh. That explains why there were four overflowing trash cans sitting directly in front of the outdoor seating area yesterday. This was while they were open, of course.

I enjoyed Saffron very much when they first opened and found the staff and owner/manager quite warm (I thought it was run by a woman, btw) although we had problems with very long waits for apps and entrees.

Before opening Saffron Grill, the original owners had an oddball gift shop on Washington St called the Dockyard. As that was open for less than a year, I wonder what their master plan might actually be. I have known of restaurants that were opened and sold at a loss (or just closed down) in order to act as a tax write-off for the owner. Can't say what the plan was for Saffron but it's a real shame that it's a shadow of its former self. My last meal at Karma Kafe was atrocious, and India on the Hudson (same owners as Karma, right) never quite did it for me either.

[thereuare]

Mavis,

I always thought the owner was the guy who always sat on a stool behind the counter. He actually came into the restaurant on Saturday nite when we were there, stayed about 10 minutes but then left. I think his wife(?) may be the woman you're refering to and she occaisionally waitressed. This restaurant actually had promise, unlike the Dockyard which i never saw anyone buy anything from (the sign in the window when they closed said they were moving to Edgewater or something like that, no?)

Funny you mentioned the wait for appetizes and entrees there as it was always hit or miss. From another thread on Egullet i had the following comments on Saffron:

For Indain, Saffron is a new restaurant (and one of my favorite), although the service can get a bit 'iffy' when they're busy, which they are likley to be on a weekend nite (they're fairly new, and haven't worked out all the kinks just yet when they're busy)

You are correct that Karma and India on the Hudson have the same owners... neither of which i'm impressed with.

Do you live in Hoboken? Where else do you like to eat in/around town?

[mavis]

thereuare, yes I live in Hoboken. My all time favorite restaurant in town is La Isla. I also like Zafra. For all the restaurants, there really isn't much great eating (but the takeout is great -- Mision Burrito & Sri Thai in particular.) I just saw that there's a new tapas place on 14th St. I wasn't too impressed with the other place (on the corner of 9th & Washington where 9th used to be -- I really miss that restaurant) but a friend has been going regularly recently and says it has improved with the new menu. Have you been to Les Bisous? I haven't tried it yet.

Edited November 5, 2003 by mavis (log)

[Rosie]

Mavis--Welcome to eGullet. In Hoboken I like Amanda's and The Dining Room at Anthony David's. Can you post the name and address of the new tapas place on 14th St?

[thereuare]

Mavis,

Haven't heard about the new tapas place but, like you, am a big fan of La Isla and Mission Burritos (what do they feed the 'kid' that works there... he grows like a weed)

Haven't been to Les Bisous, have heard it's good but PRICEY (good, but not necessarily worth the price!) I think a lot of our tastes are similar, because when i tell people i live in Hoboken they usually so, "Oh, you have a lot of good restaurants there" to which i reply, "No, we just have a lot of restaurants".

In the last few months i've been eating bar pies and meatball subs at Leo's, i was never a fan but now i'm hooked on them. I've also been an advocate of the 'special' at The Baja (not worth ordering anything except that) but the quality, as with many other things in town, has been hit or miss over the last few years. I also think that, for what it is, Oddfellow's puts out some pretty good bar food (they're burgers are great... as are the burgers at Arthur's).

I have a belated Birthday dinner coming up and i think we're going to try Anthony Davids as it gets good reviews from the posters here that have been.

The above probably sums of the merchants on my credit card bills the last few months

Edited November 5, 2003 by thereuare (log)

[tommy]

thereuare,

you should try the Brass Rail's tasting menu, which i think is on wednesday and thursdays. i find it very satisfying, especially when paired with wines, and at the bar.

[mavis]

I'm glad to hear that the Brass Rail is doing some good food. (BTW, it's owned by the families that own La Isla & Sparrow wine.) It's such a great space and has so much potential, but has been sadly mediocre ever since recovering from the fire way back when.

thereuare, I looked at the menu at Les Bisous today and it was totally different than what I thought. I didn't realize it was a pasta and chop type of place. Definitely quite pricey too. I know exactly what you mean about Junior at Mision Burrito! He's huge! When he was 10 or so, I used to play basketball with him while waiting for my friends to show up for a (very sloppy) Sunday adults game. He's a sweetheart.

Yes, we do have similar tastes. I love Leo's bar pies (and Leo used to make such a gerat martini...) and Oddfellow's burgers, po boys and crab cakes. Haven't been to Baja in a long while.

So what's the favorite sandwich in Hoboken? I vote for mozz & sun dried tomatoes at Piccinini's.

[tommy]

I love Leo's bar pies (and Leo used to make such a gerat martini...) and Oddfellow's burgers, po boys and crab cakes.  Haven't been to Baja in a long while.

So

rut-roh. sounds like leo is no longer with us? that's a shame. i haven't been in quite some time. that was a great spot for anitpasto and a bar pie. and a pitcher of beer.

[thereuare]

Mavis,

I must admit i've never been in Piccinini's. When it comes to 'subs' i'm almost exclusively a Turkey and 'Mutz' guy. I think Fiore's has the best mozzarella in town and makes a great sandwich (and on Thursday and Saturday i get that with some Roast Beef gravey on it ). Vito's seems to get top marks from most people for their sandwiches, and i would never let one in front of me go uneaten, but i don't rave about them as others do. I've eaten my share of them, but think Lisa's makes one just as good if not better. M&P Biancomano also makes a great sandwich and offers the best value in that caliber of sandwich (read: it's cheap relative to the others). The problem with them though is they use a MUCH lower grade of turkey breast then the other delis, but their mozzarella is just as good and they PILE it on!

I don't know if i mentioned it in a prior post but i think Margheritas is one of the better restaurants in town, although it's a bit 'immature' for some tastes on this board. We used to be at the Baja 2-3 times per month but now is more like 5-6 times per year. I don't understand the big deal with the Madison... room is beautiful but they should serve some legitimate food.

If we really want to open a can of worms we could talk Hoboken pizza (my favorite food, but i travel to Queens or Staten Island when i really need a fix).

Tommy,

You know by now i'm not the tasting menu type... i didn't want anythng to do with that fois gras you were trying to force on me!

[tommy]

Tommy,

You know by now i'm not the tasting menu type... i didn't want anythng to do with that fois gras you were trying to force on me! 

damn kid. that was about 2 years ago. tell me you've had some since then.

[mavis]

Sorry to drop the news like that, Tommy. Leo passed away a year or two ago. He had quite a fantastic birthday party a few years before that though with a karaoke machine and burgers & dogs on a grill outside. That's a very fond memory for me (well, what I can remember ... it took a few pints to get me to sing "Son of a Preacher Man..."). Do you remember any details about your tasting menu at the Brass Rail? Oh, and Hoboken needs more foie gras if you ask me.

I'm totally with you regarding Vito's, thereuare. I used to live uptown and went to Biancamano's weekly, so I have a soft spot for them too. But I think the guys at Piccinini's have the sandwich market hands down. I actually prefer Pasquale's fresh mozz (as long as you get it the morning it's made and don't refrigerate it) to anybody's. And my brother in law swears by Tony's for cold cuts and sausages. If I don't want to run around all day, I'm totally happy with Fiore's. The last sandwich I bought at Lisa's was a 6 foot party sub -- can't beat it.

I can't deal with the crowds at Margherita's but I've never had a bad meal there. If you want to talk pizza, I'm game ...

[thereuare]

Tommy - no fois gras as of yet , but i've eaten a lot chicken sandwiches (and other basic food) since then!

Marvis - PIZZA

Benny Tudino's - best slice in town IF (and it's a big IF) you can time it just right. Get a pie that is fresh out of the oven (a rarity these days as they're constantly keeping a great number of pies under the counter) and have it be cooked enough and there is none better. If these two characteristics are missing you'd wish you'd gone someplace else.

Delfino's - decent sicilian slice but their regular pie needs a better quality of cheese... too much translucent orange goop on top

Grimaldi's - gets too soggy too quick (the downfall of all varieties of this style)

Although i don't give rave reviews to any of the above, they're what i consider to be the better places in town. Lately i've been heading mostly to Benny's and asking them to heat it up (they inevitably tell me it's hot and just came out but i ask them to heat it up anyway and that makes it MUCH better... just got to be prepared for the counter guy not being happy with me ruining his day by asking him to heat up a slice )

For the best pizza i head to Denino's in Staten Island or Sac's in Astoria (for the best square slice ever)

I've lived in town for nearly 13 years and as i've never tried some of the places you've mentioned (a few i'll admit i hadn't heard of) so i'd be interested in hearing your pizza thoughts.... maybe you can turn me onto something that i don't know exists. I will be trying a Piccinini sandwich soon, i assume a turkey and mutz will be fine there and i won't be told, "you didn't order the right thing". Does Pasquale's make sandwiches as well or just mozzarella and then you need to go get the other ingredients on your own.

Here's a thread i started long ago about Pizza in the tri-state area that you may want to read in your leisure time: PIZZA THREAD

Edited November 6, 2003 by thereuare (log)

[mavis]

Once again, I'm in total agreement about Benny's. But for a whole pie I do like Grimaldi's if you're eating there. Otherwise it's all Torna on 9th Street! You didn't mention Margherita's for pizza -- it's as good as Grimaldi's, I think, with a nice crisp thin crust. Which is Delfino's? Is that around 4th & Washington? I like that one but can't remember the name.

I've started wading through the pizza thread, but my first eGullet-spurred food trip is going to be to Finks Funky this weekend. I'm far more willing to travel for barbecue than pizza these days.

Pasquale's makes sandwiches but I hate the bread he uses. He's usually got excellent fresh sausage and cacciacavallo cheese, which, along with the mutz, are what I like him for. A turkey & mutz will be quite fine at Piccinini's. Pick up some of their stuffed cherry peppers while you're at it! And a bottle of bitters, of course.

[thereuare]

If you drink wine (or other liquors, but especially wine) you MUST stop at Total Wines (135 Kinkderkamack Rd, River Edge) which is about 1 mile or so from Fink's place. My wife and I drink a lot of rieslings, and our favorite is from Chte. St. Michelle. It sells for about $9 or $9.50 here at Sparrow, but Total Wine has it for $7.50/bottle.... buy a case and get 10% off. For $6.75/bottle it's a steal. Anyways, it really is a wine supermarket and if you're into wine it's definately worth a stop to pick up some assorted varieties and try some new bottles. Their website doesn't do it justice as it is a little cluttered and doesn't have nearly all the brands they carry, but here is is anyway: Total Wine. Speaking of Fink, he's one of the nicer restauranteurs you'll meet.

I have a friend in town who is as big of a pizza fan as i am and he raves about Margherita's pizza, but i find it a bit oily (but agree on the excellent crisp crust). Delfino's is on 5th and Jefferson (closed Sun and Mon i think). If going there for a slice try a square.... they have the crust pre-baked and once you order a slice they add the sauce and cheese so you get somewhat of a 'fresh' slice that doesn't taste like re-heated cheese. I've had square slices from Torna a few times and it always looks better than it ends up tasting... is a 'regular' slice the thing to get there? I know they basically make a pan pizza variety, right? The place on 4th and Washington is Fillipo's and IMO their pizza has NO flavor what-so-ever. I have to pass right by that place to get from my house to Benny's and i have no problem doing so. If pizza could be boiled that's how i describe their slice. I also haven't been to the new(er) pizza place on 14th Street, but my wife tells me that Artie from the Howard Stern show says it's great. It's a trek for me to get to 14th st. from my apartment and although i've passed it many times and thought about going in, they never seem busy and the pies look like they've been sitting behind the glass display for awhile.

Regarding other restaurants... i get to Three A's a 2 times a year or so and have enjoyed my meals there, O'Neails is a once a year stop for us and is good but a bit pricey for Hoboken. Gaslight i went to once for dinner before going to a New Year's party and the owner made a bad business decision which prevents me from going back. Our table was also next to a 'regular' of the restaurant and his personality really rubbed us the wrong way (he was loud, flamboyant, and abnoxious so it was hard to avoid him) so although this guest may not be representative of the rest of their clientele, he is what i think of when i think of the crowd there and it just reinforces our decision not to go back.

[tommy]

Do you remember any details about your tasting menu at the Brass Rail?  Oh, and Hoboken needs more foie gras if you ask me.

here's what i posted.

just so you guys are clear:

vito's makes the best sandwich.

ok. continue.

thereuare, i can't believe you were seated next to someone flamboyant and obnoxious on New Years Eve!

[Blondie]

Leo passed away a year or two ago. 

[thereuare]

thereuare, i can't believe you were seated next to someone flamboyant and obnoxious on New Years Eve! 

... and it was early, maybe only 8:00 or so. I didn't mean to imply that he was drunk or anything like that, he (and his wife) just needed to be the center of attention and wanted everyone around to know that he was a regular there.

[thereuare]

Marvis,

I went to Piccininni's today for a sandwich... the only think i was disappointed in was that i haven't known about this place sooner!

Actually, sandwich was excellent, although my sandwich was wrapped up before i had time to ask for lettuce, tomato, and onion (my fauilt, should have asked when ordered... next time!)

I look forward to many more visits.... no line hassles and a great value to boot.

Thanks again for the recomendation.... so where should i go next?

[mavis]

just so you guys are clear:

vito's makes the best sandwich.

Sorry Tommy. Guess I'm still a little fuzzy.

Can you post the name and address of the new tapas place on 14th St?

It's Lola's at 153 14th Street, where La Scala used to be (I didn't even know they closed.) From the outside, it looks like they've done a very nice renovation.

thereuare, I saw the word "disappointed" when I first glanced at your post & thought my days on eGullet were numbered! So glad that you liked Piccinini's. It's a really well-maintained store -- very consistent product and the son (who took over the business from his father a year or so ago) is working real hard at keeping it that way. Maybe you should try Tony's next -- 2nd Street, right behind Leo's. And thanks for the steering me towards Total Wine -- I will definitely check it out. I'm too cheap for Sparrow sometimes.

[thereuare]

It's Lola's at 153 14th Street, where La Scala used to be (I didn't even know they closed.) From the outside, it looks like they've done a very nice renovation.

I don't think they took over La Scala, as i drove by tonite i only got a glimpse of the outside of Lola's, but i noticed the La Scala sign still lit up and hanging above a doorway. A quick phone directory check indicates La Scala's address as 159 14th St, while Lola's address is correct above at 153 14th St... so i think they're La Scala's newest neighbor.

I'm amazed by that whole area... what a difference a few years makes!!

Edited November 8, 2003 by thereuare (log)

[tommy]

my heart almost sank when i read that la scala was closed. and worse yet, taken over by a most-likely-second-rate tapas place.

but it hasn't. and maybe the tapas is actually good. all is right in the world again.

[thereuare]

I'm replying to this old thread as it appears that the restaurant that started it, Saffron in Hoboken, has now closed it's doors.

I only wish the original owner would come in and re-open, but i doubt that will happen. At least this restaurant, which i would never step foot in again, has closed and will make way for another restaurant for me to try.