Beijing dining

[Hest88]

I've been following thread with great interest since my parents are taking us to Beijing next year.

Does anyone have any opinion on the area around the Marco Polo hotel, on the opposite side of Tiananmen Square from Wangfujing? I wanted to be on the Wangfujing side but I was told the area around the Marco Polo hotel is just as bustling and interesting.

[Gary Soup]

ShenYang:  I was in ShenYang in January of 87, just once.  ShenYang is a industrial city with many heavy machinery plants.  Not much to tour and look at except the old Qing capital (before they settled in BeiJing).  Air quality is terrible... comparable to Detroit.

If Shenyang's air quality is comparable to Detroit's, it's probably better than most big cities in China!

Actually, it's probably improved since then, if they've banned the use of coal stoves for cooking like they did in Shanghai.

Shenyang happens to be the home town of Gong Li.

[Laksa]

Thanks, Lucy! We very much plan on attending a performance of real traditional Beijing Opera. I was unable to find any in 1987...

Michael, have you experienced traditional Chinese opera before? If you haven't, it should be a real ear-opener.

IMHO, Chinese opera is less accessible to the modern day Chinese person than Italian opera is to the modern day American. I cannot stand Chinese opera myself. It hurts my ears! I like the costumes and make-up though...

[herbacidal]

Actually, it's probably improved since then, if they've banned the use of coal stoves for cooking like they did in Shanghai.

If they've banned it, that's all well and good, but are they enforcing it?

Back in 1997, Chongqing seemed very grimy and dirty too, but I've never been to Dongbei (Manchuria/Northeastern part of China) so I can't compare it.

[Pan]

Michael, have you experienced traditional Chinese opera before?

Yes, I have. I like it a lot!

[jo-mel]

~~~~~~~~~ traditional Chinese opera before?  If you haven't, it should be a real ear-opener. 

LOLOL!

DaTong, NW of Beijing, on the Mongolian border has its grimy parts, too. But as in all Chinese cities, there are many memorable areas. They have a 9 Dragon Wall there. And the Hanging Temple that is a 'must see' if you are in the ares. It's an overnight train trip.

One other North of Beijing city -- Chengde, had no grimy areas that I could see. FULL of historic places, tho. Lovely place! That one is a few hours train trip. But there is so much to see there that it needs more than a day.

[Pan]

Joanne, based on your remarks, I Googled on Chengde. Looks beautiful! It looks like it might have worked as a stopover on the way to Changchun if I had taken the train, but I think my brother booked a round-trip flight from Beijing to Changchun.

[Gary Soup]

If they've banned it, that's all well and good, but are they enforcing it?

They certainly are. When the Shanghai Municipal Government decides to ban something, it gets banned. I'm talking about home cooking, using coal, which typically was kept burning all day. The few older households that haven't been relocated into new residences have been retrofitted for gas (bottled, where need be).

There are still street vendors using charcoal (this either isn't banned or the ban is not enforced) but it's a minor source of pollutants compared with a few million households cooking all their meals on coal.

[herbacidal]

If they've banned it, that's all well and good, but are they enforcing it?

They certainly are. When the Shanghai Municipal Government decides to ban something, it gets banned. I'm talking about home cooking, using coal, which typically was kept burning all day. The few older households that haven't been relocated into new residences have been retrofitted for gas (bottled, where need be).

There are still street vendors using charcoal (this either isn't banned or the ban is not enforced) but it's a minor source of pollutants compared with a few million households cooking all their meals on coal.

I was actually speaking about Shenyang, but it's interesting that Shanghai has decided to do that.

Polishing things up before the in case 2008 Olympic visitors decide to swing on down through town, I'd imagine.

So coal stoves are illegal in Shanghai, eh?

Anyone know if they're still used in the factories around China?

That huge natural resource has to be used somewhere.

Edited July 17, 2004 by herbacidal (log)

[chengb02]

Not sure where exactly the Marco Polo Hotel is, but the "bustling" area on the other side of Tiananmen (a bit further than Wangfujing) would be Xidan. The Novotel is a pretty good hotel in a very good location, facing the Peninsula Palace hotel. It is just a bit down the street from Xin Dong An, the shopping mall that ancors one end of the Wangfujing pedestrian area.

In Shenyang, the main tourist sights are (in no particular order): the 9/18 Memorial Museum (the date Japan invaded Manchuria), the Shenyang Forbidden City, the Zhang family mansion, and the 2 Shenyang Qing Tombs (Bei Ling-North Tomb: the most popular), and (Dong Ling-East Tomb). There are two marginal tourist sights, one being Shi Fu Guang Chang (City Government Square) and the other being the giant Mao statute. These all could be done in 2-3 days. The air in Shenyang isn't quite as bad anymore, but it isn't great either. The nicer western hotels can be had at around 400-500 RMB a night or less. A recommendation would be the Trader's Hotel which is relatively well located in the city center. A must hit is Laobian Dumplings as well as some of the little places around the Shenyang Forbidden City. I have a few more recommendations if interested.

One possibility might be instead of doing Shenyang, go four hours (by train) further east and hit Dalian. It is a lovely city with unbelievably clean air (a true rarity) and good beaches. It also has a great golf course (if you are so inclined).

Harbin is where my family is from and I wish I could say its a happening town where weeks could be spent, but thats not the case. However, there are some really interesting sites in the city (namely the old cathedral, the NE tiger park, and the old architecture in the city center).

There were some questions that I didn't get to (and some other comments I wish to add), but I just returned from Beijing tonight(well last night now) (the reason I haven't been online much lately) and have many things on my mind. If you haven't left yet, I would be glad to offer any more help I could, I am a "lao beijing ren" who was away for awhile, but over the past few years, have spent about half the year in Beijing.

[Pan]

Thank you, chengb02! I'd love to visit Dalian, but I think it'll be impossible on this trip, as we'll be based in Changchun for the 2nd half of it and Dalian is truly a long day's trip (7-8 hours) by any type of surface transport. No, I haven't yet left for Beijing. I'll be leaving next Wednesday (August 11) and coming back to New York on August 27. We're spending 9 nights in Beijing and then flying to Changchun on the 21st, flying back from Changchun to Beijing (and then back eventually to New York) on the 26th.

I don't know for sure whether we'll make it to Shenyang or not, though I'm definitely interested; a friend of my mother's recommended Harbin, in fact, so it seems very likely we'll visit there (perhaps staying overnight). Regardless, I'd love any further recommendations you'd like to give. Even if I can't use them, someone else might be able to, down the line.

[jo-mel]

Pan -- Please, please---- keep a food log!?

Chengbo -- I've never been to Harbin, but I was with some students from there. It was at Dartmouth, just a few days after Tian'An Men. We were all cooking together, and after we ate, some of the girls started to sing, or recite poetry. One girl sang "On the SongHua River". I get chills, even now, thinking of the emotion she poured into that beautiful, sad piece of music. I never think of Harbin without that memory coming back.

To keep this on a food theme. The dinner we had that night was, of course wonderful and included a shredded potato dish that I'd had in Beijing -- something you won't find in any take-out here. It had Sichuan Pepper it and is as easy as can be. Anyone know or want the recipe?.

[Pan]

Joanne, I doubt I'll keep a complete food log, but I'm sure I'll post about some of my meals.

[hzrt8w]

Joanne, I doubt I'll keep a complete food log, but I'm sure I'll post about some of my meals.

Maybe snap a few digitals and post for us to look at the real Beijing food.

[chengb02]

To keep this on a food theme. The dinner we had that night was, of course wonderful and included a shredded potato dish that I'd had in Beijing -- something you won't find in any take-out here. It had Sichuan Pepper it and is as easy as can be. Anyone know or want the recipe?.

the dish you mentioned is called "tu dou xie" and is an excellent and simple dish made of very thinly sliced potato (julienned?) and usually also some equally thin slices of green and/or red pepper. It then typically includes some soy sauce or Chinese vinegar and sometimes some Sichuan peppercorns, an excellent, simple Northern dish. As for recipes, I can't really help, I myself need to learn a lot more...

[chengb02]

I thought I included this in an earlier post, but I guess not. Guilin is an excellent city, worth a visit and while most of the scenic spots are some distance outside of the city (offering the opportunity to either visit them by boat, car, bike or a mixture of them), it is definitely the place I would use as a base before heading off to Yangshuo. There are more foreign speakers in Guilin/Yangshuo area than one would expect, and all are looking to acoust foreign tourists, some are honest and decent and some are the exact opposite.

When I've had friends who have come to see me in Harbin, I've typically put them up at the Songhuajiang Gloria Inn, which is right on the main strip in Harbin (its equivalent of Wangfujing) and near to the river. Harbin also has an extremely famous dumplings restaurant, which is on the main shopping street, called Dongfang Jiaozi Wang (Eastern Dumpling King), a must stop place on each visit to the city. Beyond that, I typically just eat a lot of home cooking, but can ask for some more good recommendations. I am surprised to hear your mother's friend praised the city, as there really isn't much to it, but the church is impressive and the tigers are great (typically visiting the tigers is done by first crossing the river and stopping at Taiyang Dao (Sun Island) where you can roam around the park, see an indoor, year round mini version of the famous Harbin ice festival, and bargain with the taxi/mian bao che drivers to take you to the tiger park.

Beijing is a vast city with a lot to see, but 9 days is a long time in the city, I would advise a side trip to Chengde or Tianjin (if only to eat real Gou Bu Li bao zi). Some more food recommendations (or seconding ones I previously made) would be two old fashioned Beijing places: Lao Beijing JiaZhangMian Wang (kitty corner to Hongqiao Market ("Pearl Market") and between the North and East gates of Tiantan) for traditional beijing noodles. Hun Dun Hou is the other, a wonton restaurant (with other dishes available on the second floor), located on the same side of the street as your hotel, a 5 minute walk west (towards Tiananmen). After my experiences taking guests to Qianmen's QuanJuDe, I would advise: 1. book early (for any of the QuanJuDe's), or go the cheap route and eat it off of paper plates (there will be a line but it moves fast). There are also a number of good alternatives, including Xiao Wang Fu on Gongti Bei Lu, on the same block as the Chengshi Binguan (City Hotel). Xiao Wang Fu not only serves duck, but also other traditional Beijing foods. I recommended S'Silk Road at Shichahai's He Hua Shi Chang (Lotus Lane) (again book a few days in advance), but there is also a great seafood restaurant with mostly outdoor seating on the lake (maybe not the best thing in Beijing in August) called Xi He Yu Pian, which serves an amazing sashimi dish. You have a lot of time in BJ, the main places to hit are all pretty obvious (but I could go through them). If you have any interest in art or just want to see what once was an extremely secret military factory and is now a run down factory area/artist's colony that includes a number of art galleries, some restaurants, and other shops, check out the 798 Art Community in the Da Shanzi area of Beijing, on jiushan qiao lu. It is a bit difficult to find, but is worth it. Eating wise, there is a mediocre french restaurant called BaShi ZuoWei (Sit) and a really interestin creperie opened by a guy from Brittany who has great crepes and a wonderful cider on offer at reasonable prices.

Not sure how much earlier the Beijing breakfeast page is from, but what surprises me is that with all the changes to the city and price raises and everything, Jian Bing are still only 2 RMB, I've never had the you tiao variety before though...I typically ate shao bing for breakfeast, haha, and they were cheaper too, i got 3 for 1.50 RMB

[Pan]

Thanks for all the recomendations, chengb02!

Pardon me for the naive question, but is Lao Beijing JiaZhangMian Wang on the grounds of Tiantan Park? Also, it would be great if you would include Chinese characters for some of these places so that when I print the names out, I'll have a better chance of getting specific directions to them, when necessary.

[jo-mel]

To keep this on a food theme. The dinner we had that night was, of course wonderful and included a shredded potato dish that I'd had in Beijing -- something you won't find in any take-out here. It had  Sichuan Pepper it and is as easy as can be. Anyone know or want the recipe?.

the dish you mentioned is called "tu dou xie" and is an excellent and simple dish made of very thinly sliced potato (julienned?) and usually also some equally thin slices of green and/or red pepper. It then typically includes some soy sauce or Chinese vinegar and sometimes some Sichuan peppercorns, an excellent, simple Northern dish. As for recipes, I can't really help, I myself need to learn a lot more...

I worded that 'know or want the recipe'incorrectly. I have a recipe.

After I first had it at a language institute in Beijing, I was looking all overr for it, and FINALLY found it in a Chinese homecooking book. There's no flavoring od red or sweet pepers in it --- just parboiled to get rid of the rawness, then stir/fried with oil, vinegar and Sichuan pepper. So simple - so different - so tasty!

[Qing]

I remember the Jian Bing Ms. Jo-Mel mentioned, and it only costs RMB1.5 in 1996 when I was a trainee in Sheraton Beijing.

It is a egg pancake wraped bean sprouts, scallion and a piece of Fried Gohst ( You Tiao).

In Beijing people use wheat flour and eggs, but in Tianjin they use Mung bean flour with eggs. Tianjin people invented it, and they called Jian Bing Guo Zi . I prefer the way they make it. Mung bean flour pancakes taste better. Jian Bing means the pancake and Guo Zi is Tianjin people for You Tiao.

You can get You Tiao in China 46, Ridgefield NJ on Saturday and Sunday morning.

Edited August 6, 2004 by Qing (log)

[Qing]

I had been to Guilin with my class when I was 14. So far I remember that the food their was very hot, not to special. But near Guilin, there is place called Liu Zhuo, there is famous for produce best quality coffins. I bought a mini coffin as a souvenir. Coffin in Chinese called Guan Cai, it could related to get promotion and make more money.

If you are passing Liu Zhuo don’t forget to buy one, they are really cute.

[chengb02]

Thanks for all the recomendations, chengb02!

Pardon me for the naive question, but is Lao Beijing JiaZhangMian Wang on the grounds of Tiantan Park?

I will make sure to give you the Chinese names, but for now, to answer your question, it is located outside of Tiantan, near to the Hongqiao market, a popular place for foreign tourists to buy the same stuff as at Xiushui (Silk Alley), but with lots of jewelry as well. By the time you arrive in Beijing, the very well known Silk Alley may already be closed down...

[liuzhou]

I have lived in Liuzhou for nearly ten years (hence my user name) and have never seen a coffin! Though if I don't stop smoking soon, I might meet one sooner than I want!

Guilin is an overpriced tourist trap. The scenery around Yangshou is pretty, but the wallet hunters spoil every move.

There are other places around Guangxi which are equally pretty, but they are not in Lonely Planet!

[Qing]

I guess you mean 老北京杂酱面王?

but it spells like Lao Beijing Zajiang Mian Wang.

It should located around 前门 Qian Men, and it never too far from 秀水街( Silk Market).

1. The US embassy is in Silk Market.

2. In Beijing, Taxi is much cheaper than in New York.

Have fun!!!

[Pan]

Thanks, Qing!

[Pan]

I'm in Beijing now. I've had some excellent meals that I'll post about in due course (the connection in the Novotel Peace Hotel where I'm staying now is quite expensive), but please post more recommendations, preferably with characters, if you have any. My brother and I are also seriously discussing spending perhaps a couple of days in Shenyang.

Talk to you all later!