Mix (with Doug Psaltis as chef de cuisine)

[kurl]

The service was good -- attentive and on-point with water refills and such -- and our waiter was helpful and, for the most part knowledgable about the dishes.

Any complaints would be too niggling to post

[Fat Guy]

Kurl, thanks for the detailed report. I was in for a lunch tasting a few days ago and had three of the same savory dishes you had: I thought the crab bisque was terrific, right up there with the lobster veloute they do across the street at ADNY, but I'd have to give the edge to Mix's clam chowder as the shellfish soup of the year -- be sure to request it as part of your tasting or order it next time you go. I also had the French-style mac and cheese, which I've had a few times before, and it changes every time because the restaurant gets different cheeses from Murray's every few days. For those of you who haven't had this dish, note that it's best eaten if you dig down to the bottom with your spoon, because the sauce has a tendency to settle there. This is a great dish to share or have as part of a tasting menu because the half portion is really all you can eat without it becoming monotonous. It's much more successful than the American-style mac-and-cheese, which is tasty but not worth ordering. I also had the bison Wellington for the first time -- it has just come onto the menu -- and thought it was one of the best dishes I've ever had at Mix. Wellington dishes are fraught with peril, but that pastry crust is spot-on. I'm slowly becoming a bison convert, though I doubt most restaurants are getting the level of product they're serving at Mix. And I definitely appreciated the copious amount of diced mushrooms that came with that dish.

Instead of the duck salad amuse/first-course that you had, I had the Mix take on shrimp cocktail: a couple of shrimp in a parfait glass over tomato syrup and horseradish-infused creme fraiche. Also some sprouts, which seemed out of place but actually worked quite nicely. A good palate-wakener, though probably not a dish I'll actually take the initiative to order.

I also had a scallop dish, but it was just with the cauliflower puree and a black-truffle-infused emulsion that was, I think, based on cream. I think the scallops themselves were poached, and the cauliflower for the puree had been poached in cream. Having had the scallops at Jean Georges many times, I'd say the difference isn't so much in the quality of the product but rather lies in the fact that the ones at Mix are essentially naked (poached and sitting atop their sauce) whereas the ones at Jean Georges are subject to a barrage of flavor-amplification (and ultimately masking) processes: they're cooked in butter and browned so you get both the nutty butter flavor and the Maillard-reaction flavor from the browning, they have roasted cauliflower florets on top of them, and they're accompanied by a rather powerful raisin-and-caper sauce with nutmeg and sherry vinegar. I personally prefer the Mix approach.

Desserts at my meal were decent, but certainly not on par with the rest of the meal. I guess they're still working on this part of the operation, but the slowness of improvement has been frustrating. And it sounds like you did better than I did on the service front: I felt the service had slipped over its previously average levels. There are some good people on the floor at Mix, and everybody seems to be well trained, but the dining room staff was not working well as a team.

And Kurl, really, Doug Psaltis is one of the most approachable chefs in New York, and he's only 30 years old so it's not like it would be you going up against some old dude. I'm sure he would have loved to have you say hi, either before or after the meal. Chefs work in their kitchens and get very little feedback from customers, and most chefs who love their work love to talk to young gourmets, especially ones who appreciate the restaurant's cuisine. Next time, no excuses: talk to the man.

[kurl]

Kurl, thanks for the detailed report. I was in for a lunch tasting a few days ago and had three of the same savory dishes you had: I thought the crab bisque was terrific, right up there with the lobster veloute they do across the street at ADNY, but I'd have to give the edge to Mix's clam chowder as the shellfish soup of the year -- be sure to request it as part of your tasting or order it next time you go.

I definitely will -- I think going to Mix again is probably ahead of going to any other restaurant for the first time on my expensive restaurant visits list. (Actually, Sushi Yasuda for the first time may be ahead of it... Whatever.)

I also had a scallop dish, but it was just with the cauliflower puree and a black-truffle-infused emulsion that was, I think, based on cream. I think the scallops themselves were poached, and the cauliflower for the puree had been poached in cream.

Yeah, that was definitely something different than what we got -- which was with a tomato sauce-y. We probably had the same cauliflower puree -- I remember ours being creamy as well.

And Kurl, really, Doug Psaltis is one of the most approachable chefs in New York, and he's only 30 years old so it's not like it would be you going up against some old dude. I'm sure he would have loved to have you say hi, either before or after the meal. Chefs work in their kitchens and get very little feedback from customers, and most chefs who love their work love to talk to young gourmets, especially ones who appreciate the restaurant's cuisine. Next time, no excuses: talk to the man.

I'm shy, but I'll try.

[Jason Perlow]

Kurl:

First appetizer: "North Carolina Style" Crab Bisque with a Deep-Fried Crab "Finger:" I've only recently started eating shellfish, so I can't say very much about how unique this dish was, but I can say that it was divine. The flavor was perfect, the soup creamy and tasty with a subtle taste, and the dish was a perfect for winter -- a fact that was particularly poignant on the 8-or-so degree evening on which we visited Mix.

We had this one as well during our lunch this week -- I was totally blown away by the foamy/creamy texture of the bisque and the subtle, not over the top shellfish taste. Nice amount of crab meat too -- not too little, not too much.

Fat Guy:

I also had the bison Wellington for the first time -- it has just come onto the menu -- and thought it was one of the best dishes I've ever had at Mix. Wellington dishes are fraught with peril, but that pastry crust is spot-on. I'm slowly becoming a bison convert, though I doubt most restaurants are getting the level of product they're serving at Mix. And I definitely appreciated the copious amount of diced mushrooms that came with that dish.

Oh my god, that dish was obscenely good.

I also had a scallop dish, but it was just with the cauliflower puree and a black-truffle-infused emulsion that was, I think, based on cream. I think the scallops themselves were poached, and the cauliflower for the puree had been poached in cream.

Yes, I thought this was a real winner. Too bad my stomach didnt think so. Oh man was that rich.

Desserts at my meal were decent, but certainly not on par with the rest of the meal.

Of the four that we tasted I quite liked the "deconstructed lemon meringue pie". It had a nice balance of sweet and tart, and I think it was very successful in its execution. The raspberry thing was kind of ordinary, the chestnut ice cream/gelato was sickeningly rich (one spoonful was already too much) and the peanut butter pudding thing didnt work out, the burned peanut taste of the pudding with the really dark chocolate didn't work. No question though, they're being re[quoteal aggressive, and eventually I think they will get it right. They're still a very new restaurant.

[tommy]

this month's Gourmet had a field day with Mix. the reviewer didn't think much of it overall.

[Pan]

Thanks for letting us know.

Does anyone know if the article is online?

[bloviatrix]

this month's Gourmet had a field day with Mix. the reviewer didn't think much of it overall.

Did you get the feeling that he went in with a negative predisposition? His prose just seemed anti-Ducasse from sentence one.

[Fat Guy]

For those of us who don't regularly read Gourmet (and who can't remember the name of the new guy writing the reviews), can you give a few choice quotes?

[bloviatrix]

Jay Cheshes wrote the review. Here are some quotes:

It starts with the peanut butter and jelly, which reaches the table the moment you sit down.  Presented as it is with standing slices of bread, it's meant to grab you like a carnival barker, announcing "Hey, isn't this fun!"  As it turns out, the peanut butter is extraordinary, and if the meal continued in this vein - if in fact the restaurant didn't take itself so deadly seriously- it might have been the start of something great.

...Ducasse has made many of the same mistakes that plagued his original foray across the Atlantic.  The first time around he imported, intact, an authentic French temple of gastronomy - an exact duplication in price, service and pretentiousness of his three-star flagships iin Paris and Monaco.  But he quickly became acquainted with the particular prejudices of New York dinners - especially on the subject of three-hour meals costing $400 a head.  So after the bad press came changes: Prices seemed to dip ever so slightly, absurd flourishes (that selection of fountain pens with the bill) vanished, and the very proper service became marginally less stilted.

Even the purportedly lowbrow Mix, however, features prices that in some cities could have you locked up for larceny.  And, despite the flashy vibe, the formality here turns dinner into something of an ordeal.

and finally.....

Who can explain so many missteps, particularly from a chef like Alain Ducasse, whose brilliance is beyond dispute?  Surely you can't put all the blame on the shoulders of Doug Psaltis, the 29-year old from Queens appointed to run his mentor's kitchen.  Could it be that the kitchen king - with  three high-end restaurants, five Spoons, one Mix, his own cooking school, and countless other side projects - has, in the end, finally spread himself to thin?

[jogoode]

I'll have to read the whole review. I am already skeptical about it from the latter quote bloviatrix posted. Sounds like another Grimes-like stab at Ducasse, and more a reaction to the perceived arrogance of Ducasse than to the food at Mix. Psaltis seems to be immune to any criticism from reviewers. (Not to say that he deserves any, just to highlight the fact that Ducasse seems always to blame.)

[slkinsey]

The thing that is so stupid about these reviews is that most anyone who has been to Mix with an open mind understands that they are serving outstanding food. Not only that, but Doug Psaltis has got to be the most approachable chef at that level in the city, or among the top two or three in that respect. And really, I think they miss the mark when they criticize the place for not being casual and fun enough. It's not a fancied-up casual place, it's a casualed-down über-fancy place. I find a lot of the things there (peanut butter and jelly, maccheroni and cheese, we even had "grilled cheese and tomato" there) are a lot of fun, in a certain sense. But it's in the sense that a Schubert song can be fun, not in the sense that a Weird Al Yankovic song can be fun. The same thing is true with respect to the prices. It's not inexpensive compared to, say, SQC or Pastis -- but it certainly is less expensive compared to AY/NY or Jean-Georges.

[tommy]

Did you get the feeling that he went in with a negative predisposition? His prose just seemed anti-Ducasse from sentence one.

yup. and the reviewer seemed like he/she definitely had a stick up his/her ass.

i'm assuming the meals for this review were probably way back in October or November. it's almost seems unfair to review a brand new restaurant when there's that much lag-time in publishing the review.

[sammy]

The thing that is so stupid about these reviews is that most anyone who has been to Mix with an open mind understands that they are serving outstanding food.

This can be said of just about every restaurant. Most of us don't go to new restaurants with an open mind. We end up comparing the experience with our expectations.

Not only that, but Doug Psaltis has got to be the most approachable chef at that level in the city, or among the top two or three in that respect.

What does this have to do with the review?

I find a lot of the things there (peanut butter and jelly, maccheroni and cheese, we even had "grilled cheese and tomato" there) are a lot of fun, in a certain sense. But it's in the sense that a Schubert song can be fun, not in the sense that a Weird Al Yankovic song can be fun. The same thing is true with respect to the prices. It's not inexpensive compared to, say, SQC or Pastis -- but it certainly is less expensive compared to AY/NY or Jean-Georges.

I think that any restaurant that has a $72 price fixed menu changes the expectations. It needs to provide more than food that tastes good in a "fun environment."

i'm assuming the meals for this review were probably way back in October or November. it's almost seems unfair to review a brand new restaurant when there's that much lag-time in publishing the review.

No more unfair than reviewing a new restaurant and publishing it immediately. A lousy review published immediately usually spells immediate doom as most potential diners steer clear from the get-go. At least with Gourmet, enough people have been able to experience the restaurant to know whether Gourmet's review is accurate or not.

yup. and the reviewer seemed like he/she definitely had a stick up his/her ass.

Tommy, please clue us in on how you determined that?

[jogoode]

I find a lot of the things there (peanut butter and jelly, maccheroni and cheese, we even had "grilled cheese and tomato" there) are a lot of fun, in a certain sense. But it's in the sense that a Schubert song can be fun, not in the sense that a Weird Al Yankovic song can be fun. The same thing is true with respect to the prices. It's not inexpensive compared to, say, SQC or Pastis -- but it certainly is less expensive compared to AY/NY or Jean-Georges.

I think that any restaurant that has a $72 price fixed menu changes the expectations. It needs to provide more than food that tastes good in a "fun environment."

If you reread the descriptions of the dishes earlier on this thread, you'll see that many are quite sophisticated, and worthy of the prix fixe price. I do, however, think that some of the "fun" dishes seem to be out of sync with the dishes diners get with tasting menus. (BTW, an heirloom tomato tasting appetizer appeared on the menu at Restaurant Daniel a few months ago included grilled cheese and tomato.)

[tommy]

i'm assuming the meals for this review were probably way back in October or November. it's almost seems unfair to review a brand new restaurant when there's that much lag-time in publishing the review.

No more unfair than reviewing a new restaurant and publishing it immediately.

obviously, i don't agree. a brand new restaurant often goes through a rough period. publishing a review 2 months after the visits increases the chance that the restaurant may have ironed out the kinks, rendering the review inaccurate. your mileage may vary.

yup. and the reviewer seemed like he/she definitely had a stick up his/her ass.

Tommy, please clue us in on how you determined that?

what does mean in this context? it's my opinion. the reviewer, in my opinion, was needlessly harsh. your mileage may vary.

please let me know if you need any more clueing in.

Edited January 26, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Bux]

yup. and the reviewer seemed like he/she definitely had a stick up his/her ass.

Tommy, please clue us in on how you determined that?

quoted earlier from the review (emphasis mine):

...Ducasse has made many of the same mistakes that plagued his original foray across the Atlantic.  The first time around he imported, intact, an authentic French temple of gastronomy - an exact duplication in price, service and pretentiousness of his three-star flagships iin Paris and Monaco. 

I don't know that I'd use "stick up his/her ass" to describe my problem with that assessment, but it didn't lend credence to what followed. The problem with AD/NY may well have been Ducasse's inexperience with a broad spectrum of Americans, particularly with journalists writing for a mass audience. One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that wasn't the intended audience and that shoudn't have been the one to read if we wanted an appreciation of the restaurant. Bear in mind that when I wrote about Mix here in the NY board, I found what I thought were mistakes and I had plenty of crticism to offer, but I didn't see a need to use the tone I found in the Gourmet review. There's enough substance to the food and to the entire concept, not to overlook the mistakes, but to criticize those mistakes in context and to focus on the substance.

[jogoode]

Well said, Bux.

The tone is what's objectionable. Frankly, it gives the impression of a less than disinterested reviewer.

[Felonius]

I still don't understand how my impressions can be so out of synch with those of food critics concerning ADNY and now Mix. I dine out in NYC literally 7 days a week and have a very broad experience with high-end dining in this city. I've now had 10 meals at Mix and I can't for the life of me figure how anyone familiar with the NYC food scene could come away without a sincere appreciation for what Alain Ducasse and Doug Psaltis are providing here on a variety of levels: quality of ingredients, innovation, presentation, attention to detail, design, etc., etc.

I don't expect all the critics to like the concept. However, I do think it deserves respect as an effort of the highest order, by incredibly talented people. For example, I have great respect for what Marcus Samuelsson is doing at Aquavit, even though his approach doesn't particularly appeal to my personal culinary tastes. So although I don't choose to dine at Aquavit, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to others as a special and noteworthy dining experience in NYC. I have found Mix to be an exceptional restaurant, and would include them without hesitation on my personal list of favorite dining spots in this city.

Many of the early reviews of ADNY were written in a flippant and dismissive tone that in my opinion was unprofessional and way off-target. While I have yet to read the full Gourmet review of Mix, the quotations offered in this thread lead me to believe it's the same bullshit all over again.

For example the following:

"Even the purportedly lowbrow Mix, however, features prices that in some cities could have you locked up for larceny."

Nothing done by Alain Ducasse is intended to be taken as "lowbrow". This is akin to saying that Michael Tyson just likes to play around in the ring or that Placido Domingo fools around on stage at the Met. The comment that follows, "prices that in some cities could have you locked up for larceny" is equally silly. Anyone who thinks that the prices at Mix are out of line with its competition in NYC doesn't understand the realities of dining here. These words alone make it hard for me to take anything else in the review as accurate or well-informed.

And if that wasn't enough, the critic adds that dining at Mix is "somewhat of an ordeal". If this guy genuinely suffered at Mix, he must be leading a lifestyle that would make Imelda Marcos blush.

I'd urge anyone reading this forum to go to Mix and form their own opinions. The Gourmet reviewer makes enough disingenuous comments as to render his credibility highly suspect.

Over the past several years, my experience has led me to believe that many "professional" food critics have little value to offer to the knowledgeable NYC diner. I find the reviews by many of of the "amateurs" on EGullet to be far more thoughtful and insightful. I've learned a lot more about new places to go and food worthy of seeking out on these boards than I have from Gourmet or the New York Times.

Edited January 27, 2004 by Felonius (log)

[Fat Guy]

I've read (and written) too many restaurant reviews to believe I can ever agree with anyone else 100%. For example, I've long felt French Laundry is overrated -- a minority opinion even within the group of people I trust most. And I'm constantly surprised by divergent opinions among people I assumed would agree on basic points; meal-to-meal variation can't possibly explain it all. So I'm not surprised that there are people out there who have negative impressions of Mix (maybe they had a bad meal; maybe they just don't like that style; maybe it's a -- ahem -- mix of factors), and I'm also not entirely surprised (well, I guess I'm a little surprised) that there are people out there who don't think ADNY is a great restaurant. But the heaviest criticism of Ducasse's restaurants is so shallowly agenda-and-ignorance driven, so ultimately unrelated to the actual food being served, and so hilariously predictable, it doesn't even deserve the title of "opinion." It's something that gets processed lower down in the spinal cord.

Those who form the community of restaurant reviewers have become increasingly out of touch with the community of experienced diners. The kind of experience one gets on the job as a working reviewer is no substitute for the education someone like you gets as a customer and connoisseur, Felonius. Like you, I find that my opinions and experiences are far more closely aligned to those of eGullet-level customers than those of the members of the restaurant reviewing community. I'd also place, in the camp of people I tend to agree with about restaurants, the group of non-restaurant-reviewer food writers like Jeffrey Steingarten and Alan Richman. Steingarten has given high praise to Mix. Richman, when I was pretty much alone in the US media as an advocate of ADNY, was the one serious food writer who sent me a letter of support.

The Ducasse restaurants are something of a litmus test in this regard. It's not necessary to like Ducasse's cuisine -- that kind of overall opinion is too subjective to legislate -- but there's a level of disrespect beyond which one's own credibility, rather than Ducasse's, must suffer. This is especially true among critics, who have an obligation to maintain a certain degree of detachment and to rise above the kinds of political and cultural objections to Ducasse that permeate so many of the reviews.

[slkinsey]

Do you suppose that there may be some kind of quasi-institutional pressure for US food writers to dislike Ducasse's NYC places? Like they might be seen as having the wrong kind of taste if they enjoyed it? After the ADNY review debacle, I can imagine most critics going in to Mix already knowing they wouldn't like it and were going to give it a bad review. And, indeed, they may feel consciously or subconsciously that their work may be viewed negatively if they go against the grain. The same may be true with a certain group of diners as well. Certainly this happens in my world, where many people go to an opera performance already knowing whether or not they will like a performance by Rene Fleming (it is both cool and uncool to be a fan of La Fleming, depending on one's peer group).

[jbraynolds]

Let me get out the gasoline here.

Why does it have to follow that any criticism or skepticism of Ducasse and his products is agenda-driven or political? Maybe, just maybe he doesn't bat a thousand? Is that unthinkable? What, the guy shits diamonds? Anything less than adulation and awe of Ducasse, Doug Psaltis or anything associated with them sure seems to bring out the attack, or, worse still, lap dogs, at least here. When I read things like "Mix is cool" (read: if you don't like Mix, you're not cool), "dishes that are the best of their kind", "Ducasse's kitchen team...would be the envy of any kitchen, anywhere in the world", "the guy is one of the greatest chefs in history - the heir apparent to Escoffier" (better not tell that to Point), "AD/NY is as good a restaurant as America has ever seen"...well, I just have to wonder about getting an objective view.

Fire away.

[tommy]

any critic who is greatly influenced by what he thinks he *should* like isn't a very good critic.

[jbraynolds]

Let me hasten to add that many of the arguments FOR the Ducasse projects are compelling. There are many things that I especially like about/at AD/NY but I just don't think that any argument against AD/NY, Mix or whatever can be brushed away as hollow or so much axe-grinding.

Edited January 27, 2004 by jbraynolds (log)

[Fat Guy]

I just don't think that any argument against AD/NY, Mix or whatever can be brushed away as hollow or so much axe-grinding.

Nobody here has tried to do that, except for the various straw men you keep trotting out.

[Bux]

What can I say about Mix that, in the context of this thread, won't be like patting myself on the back for the openess of my objective view. I had a lot of negative criticism about the design, concept, service and I think there's no excuse for any restaurant to serve Nutella to diners paying a good price for good food. Nevertheless, for all my complaints, I enjoyed my meal far more than I have in restaurants that merit little criticism from me, or from my companions at lunch. There's an emphasis on "meriting" criticism, if that makes sense to people. Fat Guy probably summed up my initial reaction in his review before I ever ate there and without naming me. Mix is an odd restaurant for me. I'm far more likely to recommend it, than make a reservation for myself. I'm not likely to suggest it as place to meet friends, but would gladly accept the suggestion to meet there for dinner if someone else suggested it. I respect the restaurant much more than I like it. I have no trouble rising above the affectations that annoy me in order to get at the food. If I ate out as often as Felonius, I might also find a regular place for Mix in my mix. In the meantime, I'm happy to take swipes at those affectations, but if I was being paid an honest price for an honest opinion I couldn't dismiss Mix as some critics have done. There is however, a great tradition for this kind of "review," and it's popularized in literature and movies.

There are many arguments against Ducasse and his restaurants that are supportable. A brush off or dismissal of AD/NY or Mix, is not particularly supportable in my humble opinion.