Andrea Immer's new TV show

[vengroff]

These wines are very well made plonk. What is wrong with them is you can buy better plonk at half the price. What is more off-putting to the new consumer than getting ripped off. If you want people to be relaxed and have a good time with wine they should be able to buy good wines for a reasonable cost instead of paying for all the hype and advertising that got these wines in Target and on TV in the first place.

Half the cost of the wines Immer is selling goes to promotion not winemaking.

This is exactly right. And the solution is easy. The best advice anyone can give to a wine neophyte is to find a local wine shop with a reasonably knowledgable staff. In most cases, they can walk in and say, "I have a Gallo of Sonoma/Kendall Jackson budget, but I understand I can do better without spending more." Chances are they will find the staff falling all over themselves to steer them in any number of better directions. They will end up drinking better wine, almost certainly enjoying it more, and will probably end up saving money too.

[Craig Camp]

I think Andrea should be congratulated for what she has achieved in the wine world. And her enthusiasm is great, she makes wine tasting fun.

I could not agree more. As much as I don't approve of these wines they are not poison. I would drink any of these bottles at some remote Holiday Inn and be happy to have them to improve my almost certainly dismal meal.

What's wrong with making a living.

[Craig Camp]

And the solution is easy.  The best advice anyone can give to a wine neophyte is to find a local wine shop with a reasonably knowledgable staff.  In most cases, they can walk in and say, "I have a Gallo of Sonoma/Kendall Jackson budget, but I understand I can do better without spending more."  Chances are they will find the staff falling all over themselves to steer them in any number of better directions.  They will end up drinking better wine, almost certainly enjoying it more, and will probably end up saving money too.

Right on.

[redwinegulper]

What's wrong with making a living.

Nothing wrong with making a living. And it is a pleasure to seeing her making good money, unfortunately the wine industry pays absurdly low salaries for so many jobs.

But, I love to learn, and this show is not going to give me anything worthwhile.

[Craig Camp]

But, I love to learn, and this show is not going to give me anything worthwhile.

0+0=0

except on TV where it equals a very slick and well-produced zero.

[tommy]

This is exactly right.  And the solution is easy.  The best advice anyone can give to a wine neophyte is to find a local wine shop with a reasonably knowledgable staff.  In most cases, they can walk in and say, "I have a Gallo of Sonoma/Kendall Jackson budget, but I understand I can do better without spending more."  Chances are they will find the staff falling all over themselves to steer them in any number of better directions.  They will end up drinking better wine, almost certainly enjoying it more, and will probably end up saving money too.

i wonder if these wine shops exist around every part of the country/world. i know that for every 5 in my area, maybe 2 have people who are knowledgeable.

books, however, always come in handy.

[vengroff]

i wonder if these wine shops exist around every part of the country/world.  i know that for every 5 in my area, maybe 2 have people who are knowledgeable.

I guess you know which two to go to then.

books, however, always come in handy.

Very true.

[Mark Sommelier]

It never occured to me that someone would be offended by my referring to KJ and Gallo as plonk. Craig is right, its well made plonk. jddoyle, I'm sorry if you thought I singled you out. I didn't. You mentioned "that attitude", and that set me off. I'm not a snob, just smart enough to not want to drink massed produced McWine. As Craig said, the more you know the better deal you can find. I suppose if Rick Bayless can shill for Burger King, Andrea Immer can do it for Target/ConAgra/Gallo. I certainly apologize if you were offended.

[tommy]

i wonder if these wine shops exist around every part of the country/world.  i know that for every 5 in my area, maybe 2 have people who are knowledgeable.

I guess you know which two to go to then.

i do. neophytes probably don't. i suppose my point is that in some places wine shops with knowledgeable staff are hard to come by! the solution, for me at least, has been a combination of reading books, watching TV, reading wine boards, and talking to people who know a lot more than me.

[sammy]

And keep tasting and trying new things. I find that is more worthwhile than anything else. I may buy a wine because of what I read or heard but I'll buy it again if I like it.

Edited October 10, 2003 by sammy (log)

[Mark Sommelier]

i wonder if these wine shops exist around every part of the country/world.  i know that for every 5 in my area, maybe 2 have people who are knowledgeable.

I guess you know which two to go to then.

i do. neophytes probably don't. i suppose my point is that in some places wine shops with knowledgeable staff are hard to come by! the solution, for me at least, has been a combination of reading books, watching TV, reading wine boards, and talking to people who know a lot more than me.

Tommy,

I get asked 20 times a night how to learn about wine. I tell people there are 2 things you must do: read a lot and DRINK A LOT.

Case closed.

[tommy]

Tommy,

I get asked 20 times a night how to learn about wine. I tell people there are 2 things you must do:  read a lot and DRINK A LOT.

Case closed.

and talking to people always helps.

[DonRocks]

The wines recommended may not be the plonkiest of plonk, but they're close enough. Let's just call them "industrial wines" and say that they aren't worth recommending with a straight face. Mark overreacted IMO, but the substance of his posting seems correct to me.

A couple weeks ago, I walked into Circle Bistro in Washington DC, and sat out on the patio with a bottle of Larmandier-Bernier Blancs de Blancs Champagne (100% Chardonnay). The food I had with it? About five cones of popcorn. Good 100% Chardonnay Champagne is delicious with popcorn - it isn't so much that the Champagne enhances the popcorn; it's the other way around.

Cheers,

Rocks

[Mark Sommelier]

Alright, you guys, I will concede this point:

Ms. Immer is correct. Supermarket junk wine is the perfect accompaniment to supermarket junk food.

[Carema]

i suppose my point is that in some places wine shops with knowledgeable staff are hard to come by!  the solution, for me at least, has been a combination of reading books, watching TV, reading wine boards, and talking to people who know a lot more than me.

Maybe team egullet should put together a comprehensive listing of those wine shops dedicated to friendly service and high quality products in any price range, those who refuse to do the corporate plonky deals and search out the little gems of the wine world. I know there are a bunch of small shop runners such as myself on this board- I never mention my shop's name because I view this board as a forum for discussion and not my own personal promotional tool. But there are a lot of us out there and if your town doesn't have one we can always do telephone and internet orders. I spend half my time on the phone anyway, a lot of stuff gets sold that way cuz we have shitty parking! maybe instead of fighting about Andrea, cheetos and KJ we can chant this mantra:

"Today I will wake up and resist the Santa Fey Chicken Sandwhich and Kendall Jackson. I will eat something braised in lard and drink something from a wine region I have never heard of whose production is under 5000 cases a year. I will do this for me because I love myself and I will do it for the children"

Say this ten times and breathe deeply. Now go out there!

[docsconz]

"Today I will wake up and resist the Santa Fey Chicken Sandwhich and Kendall Jackson. I will eat something braised in lard and drink something from a wine region I have never heard of whose production is under 5000 cases a year. I will do this for me because I love myself and I will do it for the children"

Say this ten times and breathe deeply. Now go out there!

OK.

[tommy]

Maybe team egullet should put together a comprehensive listing of those wine shops dedicated to friendly service and high quality products in any price range, those who refuse to do the corporate plonky deals and search out the little gems of the wine world.

to an extent, that happens already. i know that on the NJ board, there is discussion of wine stores quite often. on the NYC board as well every now and again.

[Craig Camp]

I never mention my shop's name because I view this board as a forum for discussion and not my own personal promotional tool.

You know one thing I really miss about Chicago is the Musicbox theatre on Southport. There are some nice restaurants there and a nice little wine shop just across the street, but I forget the name...

...that's the way life is - Que syrah, syrah.

[vengroff]

I'll nominate Schneider’s of Capitol Hill in DC.

Our fine wine collection now boasts 1961 Chateau Petrus 1.5L at $10,000 along with 1999 Chateau Gaillard Touraine at $5.99.  In between are at least 12,000 other choices.

[Mark Sommelier]

I'll nominate Schneider’s of Capitol Hill in DC.

Our fine wine collection now boasts 1961 Chateau Petrus 1.5L at $10,000 along with 1999 Chateau Gaillard Touraine at $5.99.  In between are at least 12,000 other choices.

Add Elliott Staren's Wide World of Wine on Wisconsin Avenue in upper Georgetown.

[Human Bean]

On the original topic: I have no idea who Ms. Immer is. Commercial whoredom isn't inherently evil, but not clearly disclosing that you're being a shill for corporate agribusiness (um, Sandra Lee???) is definitely is evil. Damage to reputation caused by being a shill is a matter for the individual shill to decide for hirself (paging Rick Bayless, Rocco DiSpirito, etc).

On the thread: I don't currently have a local wine shop that I trust, and recommendations for shops 3000 miles away aren't helpful. But eG has the expertise - so, the following wines have been mentioned as picks of Ms. Immer:

Robt Mondavi Fume Blanc/ Kendall-Jackson Vintner's Reserve Sauvignon Blanc

St Francis Merlot

Penfolds Grange

Fetzer Valley Oaks Shiraz

Gallo of Sonoma Chardonnay

Ecco Domani Pinot Grigio

I'm not familiar with most of those, but my impression is that they're in the 7 - 10 dollar per bottle range at retail. Great! That's about my target for a vin de table. Craig Camp (and others) say of these selections:

These wines are very well made plonk. What is wrong with them is you can buy better plonk at half the price.

Okay, so then... Kindly suggest some alternatives. Cheaper is good, half the price is very good, but not required. They need to be widely distributed though, so that everyone can benefit from the selections. This would generally mean domestic (US) wines, but there are also mega-importers that provide reasonable but also widely-available imports.

Anyone?

[NVNVGirl]

Uhhh....did you find Penfold's Grange for $7 a bottle? Where do you shop? I'll buy a plane ticket there

[Carema]

Robt Mondavi Fume Blanc/ Kendall-Jackson Vintner's Reserve Sauvignon Blanc

St Francis Merlot

Penfolds Grange

Fetzer Valley Oaks Shiraz

Gallo of Sonoma Chardonnay

Ecco Domani Pinot Grigio

Dynamite Sauvignon Blanc (12.95/btl) ca 2001

Brander sauvignon Blanc Santa Ynez 2002 (13.95/btl)

Dal Piave Merlot Veneto Italy 2002 8 dollars

Penfolds grange is 50 million dollars a bottle

Jindalee Shiraz- Murray darling Australia 2001 $8.00

Wishing tree Shiraz, Western Australia 2001- $12.95

Conde de Valsuez Chardonnay Chile (tastes totally american) $8.00

Tiefenbrunner Pinot Grigio $14.95

All these are larger scale productions and should be found in most markets.

good luck.

[Human Bean]

Uhhh....did you find Penfold's Grange for $7 a bottle?

No. That's one I'm utterly unfamiliar with, and one that was mentioned as in a different range than the others.

But as long as I'm here, I have a possible alternative to the Fetzer Shiraz suggested by Ms. Immer. Most any of the reasonably cheap Australian Shiraz should be drinkable; Rosemount is one I'm somewhat familiar with, and probably costs the same or less. Fetzer, I've never tried. You're welcome to laugh at this, provided that you provide better alternative suggestions.

I'm not a wine sophisto, but not totally a newbie either. Hence my request for cheap but good.

[Human Bean]

Dynamite Sauvignon Blanc (12.95/btl) ca 2001

Brander sauvignon Blanc Santa Ynez 2002 (13.95/btl)

Dal Piave Merlot Veneto Italy 2002 8 dollars

Penfolds grange is 50 million dollars a bottle

Jindalee Shiraz- Murray darling Australia 2001 $8.00

Wishing tree Shiraz, Western Australia 2001- $12.95

Conde de Valsuez Chardonnay Chile (tastes totally american) $8.00

Tiefenbrunner Pinot Grigio $14.95

Excellent; thanks, Carema.

I'd like them to be $10 per bottle or less; that (or less) is my price range for an everyday wine. I'm not rich, and the more subtle qualities of expensive bottles are not important to me in this situation.

Keep 'em coming.

Edited October 11, 2003 by Human Bean (log)