What's a Garouper?

[mcdowell]

They opened a new Chinese restaurant very near my house. Within days of it arriving, there were crowds on the sidewalk outside of this place, every night, all Asian. Crowds outside any restaurant in Cupertino, California, is a rare thing. Crowds outside "yet another" Chinese restaurant are unheard of.

I went this afternoon, after the lunch rush, to see what the fuss was about. The menu was heavily seafood oriented and I recognized most everything on it.

There were, however, a very large number of dishes featuring something called "garoupa", something that I'd never heard of. I asked the man there who was taking care of me what this was and he couldn't help me beyond "its fish". I'll spare the exchange and the translation problems, except to say that we were talking but not communicating. So instead of something with "garoupa", I had the "red wine with oxtail clay pot" and was blown away.

But my question is simple (and google didn't really help): What's a "garoupa"?

[mpav]

Hi, I don't know what a garoupa is, but these sites may be helpful.

http://www.caterplanasia.com/caterplan3/re...s/r0000095.html

http://www.galaxylink.com.hk/~john/food/co...on/sfgaroup.htm

[fresco]

I see it on menus at Chinese restaurants all the time. Think it is grouper.

[soyamiso]

fresco is correct. It's grouper.

Appreciate the Chinglish; it's part of the fun of dining in Asian restaurants.

Ever been to a VN/Chinese restaurant with English on the menu? The same menu item will have three totally different ingredients in three different languages. We just go with the Chinese version.

[mcdowell]

fresco is correct.  It's grouper.

Appreciate the Chinglish; it's part of the fun of dining in Asian restaurants. 

Ever been to a VN/Chinese restaurant with English on the menu?  The same menu item will have three totally different ingredients in three different languages.  We just go with the Chinese version.

Thanks.

That was my suspicion (that it was grouper), but I didn't want to jump to conclusions.

As for the translation, I'm holding the menu in my hand and there are three dishes whose English description is only:

"braise garoupa with brown"

For three different prices! I'm going to order that next time I go in, see what I get.

Edited August 13, 2003 by mcdowell (log)

[Gary Soup]

Appreciate the Chinglish; it's part of the fun of dining in Asian restaurants. 

It's not Chinglish at all. Garoupa is the original Portuguese name for the fish, "Grouper" is the English corruption of the name. In Hong Kong it's always called as "Garoupa" on the menus.

[pillowfondler]

As a Chinese from Hong Kong now living in the States, soyamiso may have something there. I have never seen "garouper" on the menu in Hong Kong, but I must confess to not actively looking for it.

The first Chinese restauratuers may have tried to spell the word phonetically, thereby, grouper became garouper. By fortunate happenstance, garouper is Portuguese in origin (although grouper came into use in 1671). Why would a Chinese menu, with English translation, use a Portuguese word which most English-speakers don't recognize? If customers don't recognize it, they won't order it. Besides, Hong Kong is British influenced, not Portuguese.

But then again, maybe all this started in Macau, and no one bothered to change it.

[Rachel Perlow]

I'm going to order that next time I go in, see what I get.

That's the eGullet spirit!

[Stone]

As for the translation, I'm holding the menu in my hand and there are three dishes whose English description is only:

"braise garoupa with brown"

For three different prices! I'm going to order that next time I go in, see what I get.

Get all three and see which is best.

[fresco]

Appreciate the Chinglish; it's part of the fun of dining in Asian restaurants. 

It's not Chinglish at all. Garoupa is the original Portuguese name for the fish, "Grouper" is the English corruption of the name. In Hong Kong it's always called as "Garoupa" on the menus.

Don't want to get into the middle of a debate about which came first--grouper or garoupa. Either way, it's a great tasting fish.

[wesza]

They are all Species of the same family, even in Chinese Menus in Hong Kong there are many variations in spelling. Bet, you didn't know that the World's most Expensive Fish, served in Hong Kong is "Horse Head Grouper", often costing , live from fish Tank's as much as $500.00 per Chinese Pound, or Caddy [20 Oz]. When it's order and served at Restaurant's there lots of noise and hoopla. Mr Chings HOrse Head, being served. etc.

[Gary Soup]

As a Chinese from Hong Kong now living in the States, soyamiso may have something there.  I have never seen "garouper" on the menu in Hong Kong, but I must confess to not actively looking for it.

The first Chinese restauratuers may have tried to spell the word phonetically, thereby, grouper became garouper.  By fortunate happenstance, garouper is Portuguese in origin (although grouper came into use in 1671).  Why would a Chinese menu, with English translation, use a Portuguese word which most English-speakers don't recognize?  If customers don't recognize it, they won't order it.  Besides, Hong Kong is British influenced, not Portuguese.

But then again, maybe all this started in Macau, and no one bothered to change it.

I saw "garoupa" on many HK menus in the three months I spent on assignment there, and no other variations on the spelling. You may not have spent as much time as I did looking at the English menus.

The Portuguese influence in Asian waters precedes any significanct English influence. The word "Tempura" in Japanese food comes from the Portuguese.

In McDowell's post he may have injected his own typo by using "garouper" in the subject line, while he referred to "garoupa" in the main body of his post as being the term he saw on the restaurant menu. The restaurateur may be from HK and just following precendent. In any event, "garoupa" has a nicer ring to it than "grouper", and aren't we used to seeing foreign terms like "calamari", "scampi" and even "escargots" used on English menus?

My main point was that categorizing the use of "Garoupa" as "Chinglish" was a bit hasty.

[mcdowell]

In McDowell's post he may have injected his own typo by using "garouper" in the subject line, while he referred to "garoupa" in the main body of his post as being the term he saw on the restaurant menu. 

Good catch! I've looked at this topic a number of times today and didn't notice my own spelling mistake (and there doesn't seem to be a way to edit the topic description once it's committed). It is indeed 'garoupa' that I was asking about, and did spell it right in the message body. I hope that didn't confuse anyone.

The menu in question was definately Hong Kong influenced, or at least seemed so by the names of a number of the dishes.

I'm heading back there Friday to sample a platter (or three!) of garoupa, then will report back here.

A word of thanks to you all. There is no place else in the cviilized world where you can shout out "what's a garoupa" and get the range of answers, so quickly, that you all provided. I don't know who's right and who's wrong, but my brain is full, and that's a very good thing.