Q&A -- Knife Maintenance and Sharpening

[col klink]

I certainly don't mind the aesthetics of the patina, what I mind is during sushi service the rice sticks to knife and makes it difficult to cut through rolls despite thoroughly wetting down the knife.

I'll find out tomorrow if my honing was adequate which I'm sure it will be at least better than before. I'm betting that the patina on the back won't cause too many problems because it's concave.

But thanks for the advice, my father-in-law just sent me home with a dremmel!

[Chad]

All righty, then. There ya go. Just use the buffing wheel or conical doodad with the polishing rouge. Take your time and don't let the blade get hot. I used two spring loaded C clamps to lock my knife down to the bench in my garage when I buffed out some polishing scratches, but a vise or anything else that'll keep the blade immobile should work. The last thing you want is the Dremel flinging your knife across the room .

Chad

[winesonoma]

I got my Edge Pro and I'm now looking to replace my Steel. Currently using a regular cut Dick. Would a superfine be in order or a polish? Who makes ceramic "Steels". Any tips please? Also Left handed Japanese knives are made by Masahiro.

[Niftynorm]

Chad great tutorial. what do you think of the Messermeister Elite knives?

[Chad]

I got my Edge Pro and I'm now looking to replace my Steel. Currently using a regular cut Dick. Would a superfine be in order or a polish? Who makes ceramic "Steels". Any tips please? Also Left handed Japanese knives are made by Masahiro.

I prefer a smooth steel (butcher's steel) from HandAmerica (link in the tutorial) over the Dick honing steels. Even better is a ceramic. Ben Dale at EdgePro sells a couple of very nice ceramic steels. I haven't used anything else since I got mine.

Take care,

Chad

[Samhill]

"Actually, if you don't like the patina (I don't mind 'em myself), try high grit sandpaper from an automotive store, 1000 grit or so. Or Flitz metal polish. Either one will get your knife back in shape."

This is really bad advice, the patina on carbon steel knives is like the seasoning on cast iron pans.

I generally soak my carbons (when new,after cleaning) in a solution of vinegar/water to start the patina [edit] the patina is required to prevent rust.

Clean and dry after every use, never 'polish', buy stainless if you wan't.

And don't talk out of your *ss.

Edited April 2, 2004 by Samhill (log)

[Chad]

Chad great tutorial. what do you think of the Messermeister Elite knives?

Thanks! I appreciate it.

I don't have a lot of experience with Messermeisters, but they are highly regarded among knife fans. They're generally as good as if not better than Henckels or Wusthofs. The Elite lines have molybdenum and vanadium for added hardness and edge retention, so they're already a step above the ususal Williams Sonoma fare. If you're thinking about picking one up, I'd say go for it. Don't get a set, though.

That applies to all knives, not just the Messermeisters. You'll never use more than the chef's knife and a paring knife. Maybe a bread knife on occassion. All the other stuff will just sit there. It's better just to buy a couple of good knives (and a good steel), even if you pay more per piece.

Take care,

Chad

[Samhill]

There is no reason whatsoever to use a dremel on a kitchen knife. these are made to the highest standards.

You'll only grind off time/use.

I rehabilitated a carbon 12" chef's my mom was using to plant in her garden by filing the back to regain a point, and a crock stick/lansky.

Carbon, nice knife, [edit] no rust after two spings in the garden.

Edited April 2, 2004 by Samhill (log)

[Samhill]

I certainly don't mind the aesthetics of the patina, what I mind is during sushi service the rice sticks to knife and makes it difficult to cut through rolls despite thoroughly wetting down the knife.

I'll find out tomorrow if my honing was adequate which I'm sure it will be at least better than before. I'm betting that the patina on the back won't cause too many problems because it's concave.

But thanks for the advice, my father-in-law just sent me home with a dremmel!

Oil the knife.

[Chad]

There is no reason whatsoever to use a dremel on a kitchen knife. these are made to the highest standards.

You'll only grind off time/use.

Au contraire . Most kitchen knives can be vastly improved with a little Dremel work, especially rounding the back of the spine. Even just breaking the edges of the spine can make a huge difference in the comfort of the knife. Read my article The Way of the Knife for all the gory details.

In Matt's case the patina on his sushi knife was causing it to stick. A polishing bob and some jeweler's rouge would clean that up pretty quickly -- without any loss of metal or useable life of the knife. I agree that I wouldn't use a Dremel on the edge of a knife. There are much better ways to restore an edge. But for quick cleanup, why not?

Chad

edit: spellig

[Chad]

I generally soak my carbons (when new,after cleaning) in a solution of vinegar/water to start the patina [edit] the patina is required to prevent rust.

Clean and dry after every use, never 'polish', buy stainless if you wan't.

And don't talk out of your *ss.

Samhill, I agree that the patina on a carbon knife is generally a good thing. The benign rust of the patina prevents more corrosive rust from taking hold. In this case, however, the patina on the sushi knife was causing problems. I offered a solution.

As for talking out of my ass . . . well, I do that quite a bit . But not in this case.

Chad

[Samhill]

Chad had good advice from his internet research, adman.

IMO.

Get a Crock stick/Lansky system, water stones are good for fine woodworking and shaving legs/faces ( ) , let's face it who needs 1/0 mm slices?

[Schielke]

Me!

[Samhill]

I do believe I've taken care in this.

Dremel, no. File, yes.

Don't try to lie, man, you were encouraging that person to use a dremel on he edge of his knife, a dremel he/she just purchased.

[Samhill]

I certainly don't mind the aesthetics of the patina, what I mind is during sushi service the rice sticks to knife and makes it difficult to cut through rolls despite thoroughly wetting down the knife.

I'll find out tomorrow if my honing was adequate which I'm sure it will be at least better than before. I'm betting that the patina on the back won't cause too many problems because it's concave.

But thanks for the advice, my father-in-law just sent me home with a dremmel!

Oil the knife.

chopchop.

[FistFullaRoux]

Wow. How have I not seen this tutorial all this time....

I do have a question. I have a Leatherman multi tool with a basic 5" pocket knife blade in it. I use it for most cutting and chopping when I'm away from home (the occasional camping trip or cookout at the park). I do keep a seperate cheap filet knife - that I just realized will need some TLC before next weekend - in the tacklebox for dealing with fish, but I want to avoid hauling a chef's knife around.

The Leatherman's blade had held up admirably - despite my best effort sometimes. (Don't ask me what etched the blade. OK, it was battery acid) But it is getting harder to sharpen. As in it takes more time and effort. I use the old school 3 in 1 oil on the black Arkansas stone that I inherited (along with his pocket knife and his technique) from my grandfather. I'm hesitant to grind the shoulder down, because I don't want to take off too much. That tool has saved my keister more than once.

I realize that a pocket knife is not ideally suited for food prep, but you do what you can away from the kitchen cabinets. Should I abandon my trusty Leatherman (or at least depose it to the glove compartment) and get a semi-decent knife for outside? If so, what do I get? I don't normally need to field dress elk, and as long as it's compact in size it should work fine. Whatever I get should be able to stand up to the same rigors of other "camping equipment", for lack of a better term.

Thanks again for a great tutorial!

[Chad]

I do believe I've taken care in this.

Dremel, no. File, yes.

Don't try to lie, man, you were encouraging that person to use a dremel on he edge of his knife, a dremel he/she just purchased.

I'll assume you're kidding. In case you're not, you might want to read the exchange between me & Col. Klink (Matt) again, specifically this part

All righty, then. There ya go. Just use the buffing wheel or conical doodad with the polishing rouge. Take your time and don't let the blade get hot. I used two spring loaded C clamps to lock my knife down to the bench in my garage when I buffed out some polishing scratches, but a vise or anything else that'll keep the blade immobile should work. The last thing you want is the Dremel flinging your knife across the room

.

Yes a Dremel is overkill for an edge. On the flats, though, a polishing bob or wheel with rouge isn't going to do anything but clean up the blade a little.

My gunsmith, on the other hand, wants to buy Dremels for all of his customers. He makes more money fixing their botched work than he does actually building pistols .

Chad

[Samhill]

There is no reason to use a dremel on the edge of a kitchen knife, whatever the attachment.

That being the case, why are you recommending that people grind/polish the flats with a dremel?

That would be ruinous to the knife.

[Chad]

The Leatherman's blade had held up admirably - despite my best effort sometimes. (Don't ask me what etched the blade. OK, it was battery acid) But it is getting harder to sharpen. As in it takes more time and effort. I use the old school 3 in 1 oil on the black Arkansas stone that I inherited (along with his pocket knife and his technique) from my grandfather. I'm hesitant to grind the shoulder down, because I don't want to take off too much. That tool has saved my keister more than once.

I realize that a pocket knife is not ideally suited for food prep, but you do what you can away from the kitchen cabinets. Should I abandon my trusty Leatherman (or at least depose it to the glove compartment) and get a semi-decent knife for outside? If so, what do I get? I don't normally need to field dress elk, and as long as it's compact in size it should work fine. Whatever I get should be able to stand up to the same rigors of other "camping equipment", for lack of a better term.

Thanks again for a great tutorial!

Thanks for the kind words!

The Leatherman is a great tool. I carrry a Juice (the blue one with the corkscrew) with me at all times and have a Wave in the car. Your blade is getting harder and harder to sharpen because it is getting thicker as you go up. Remember this diagram?

That's what's happening. Taking off the shoulder isn't going to remove enough metal to shorten the life of the blade significantly. You're just taking off the metal that's keeping the edge from contacting the stone at the proper angle.

And don't worry about using a pocket knife for food prep. At our annual trip to the beach last year, the kitchen knives were in such bad shape that I ended up using a Spyderco Lum Chinese that I'd tossed into my luggage to do all the dinner prep work for 11 people .

As for a good camping/fishing/outdoorsy type knife, the A.G. Russell folding hocho is pretty dang cool. ATS-34 blade, nice width, easy to carry -- just generally nifty. Tell ya what, I have a spare that's just hanging around in a drawer. E-mail or PM me your address and I'll send it to you.

Chad

[Chad]

There is no reason to use a dremel on the edge of a kitchen knife, whatever the attachment.

That being the case, why are you recommending that people grind/polish the flats with a dremel?

That would be ruinous to the knife.

The knifemakers I've worked with -- who all use Scotchbrite pads, grinders, buffing wheels and, yes, Dremel tools to polish out their blades -- would be astounded to hear that.

Chad

[Samhill]

Wow. How have I not seen this tutorial all this time....

I do have a question. I have a Leatherman multi tool with a basic 5" pocket knife blade in it. I use it for most cutting and chopping when I'm away from home (the occasional camping trip or cookout at the park). I do keep a seperate cheap filet knife - that I just realized will need some TLC before next weekend - in the tacklebox for dealing with fish, but I want to avoid hauling a chef's knife around.

Black arkansas stones are veryfine, for razors.

440c takes a while to sharpen, that's why the edge lasts.

Gotta grind it.

http://www.agrussell.com/accessories/sharp..._sharpener.html

[Samhill]

There is no reason to use a dremel on the edge of a kitchen knife, whatever the attachment.

That being the case, why are you recommending that people grind/polish the flats with a dremel?

That would be ruinous to the knife.

The knifemakers I've worked with -- who all use Scotchbrite pads, grinders, buffing wheels and, yes, Dremel tools to polish out their blades -- would be astounded to hear that.

Chad

Please describe the process.

[Schielke]

I dont see anything wrong with what Chad is suggesting. Why would buffing out the side of your blade be detrimental? Perhaps you should describe the process you are imagining.

[Chad]

Samhill, you obviously have a lot of experience and strong opinions about knives and knife sharpening. I'm eager to hear them. Threads about knives and sharpening are some of the most read and long-running on eGullet. Tell ya what, start a new thread in General Food Topics. Do a detailed rebuke/rebuttal/analysis of my knife sharpening article or just skip my stuff altogether and post your own thoughts on the subject. I can guarantee you an enthusiastic audience. We can talk steel, metallurgy, edge angles, maintenance and everything else. This Q&A thread doesn't get a lot of attention. A new one will. Go for it.

Chad

[Samhill]

I do thank you for your dilligence.

I have problems with your advice, after.