So who's doing this?

[KNorthrup]

Of course, I'm also used to them being edible. Are these? The story doesn't say.

release the hounds

[jhlurie]

Great. 10,000 amateurs around here shooting anything they see moving in the trees. Just what we needed.

EDIT: Oh, I just read a bit further -- this is to shoot 1/8th that number of bears? So 7 out of every 8 of the hunters will be pissed? So maybe they will shoot the bunnies too. I could deal with that.

Edited July 8, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Rosie]

I had bear at the Perona Farm Game dinner a few years ago. It was made into a stew and tasted like chicken! Only kidding. Tasted greasy and like fatty bear. No need to have it again.

[dumpling]

What is the estimate on how many bear there actually are and the effect this will have on the population? It's not like they're going around chomping on a lot of humans as far as I can tell.

I had bear claw when I was little; it's considered a delicacy in China. Couldn't really see it myself, didn't thrill me one way or the other. Bear galll bladder sells for mucho dollares in the Orient.

[phaelon56]

If I recall correctly, the radio report I heard mentioned an estimated population of 1100 bears with 1200 attacks on humans reported in one year. Unquestionably something needs to be done, especially if one thinks of the tragedy that occurred in the lowe Catskills last year (an infant snatched from a front prch and shaken to death by a bear). Trapping and relocation couild be considered as an option but the Adirondacks would be the logical place to release them and they have bear problems of their own.

As for eating bear? I think I'll pass.

[jhlurie]

I have no problem with the bears being killed. I have a problem with 10,000 people, with various unverified levels of expertise, being sent out into the woods to shoot at a type of animal which hasn't been hunted in 30+ years in this area. Seems like a recipe for disaster. Other areas with bear hunting make a regular affair of it.

[dumpling]

If I recall correctly, the radio report I heard mentioned an estimated population of 1100 bears with 1200 attacks on humans reported in one year.  Unquestionably something needs to be done, especially if one thinks of the tragedy that occurred in the lowe Catskills last year (an infant snatched from a front prch and shaken to death by a bear). 

Thanks for info, Phaelon; wasn't aware of all the attacks.

[menton1]

I think we should shoot the RE developers for overdeveloping New Jersey into its current status of the most densely populated state in the US; this stuff is not even a band-aid; Removal of habitat, no planning, block after block of condo and McMansion, that's the real problem. This idea is STUPID!!

[suzilightning]

What is the estimate on how many bear there actually are and the effect this will have on the population?  It's not like they're going around chomping on a lot of humans as far as I can tell.

the latest numbers we were given up here(morris county/sussex county border) were about 1200 for a four county area - morris, sussex, warren and passaic. the bears here don't roam up into new york state that much and they den up here in the mountains.

what is more worrisome is that the females that might have one or two cubs each year have had an average of 4-5 per litter the last two years.

there have been more and more bears losing their fear of human habitation and breaking into houses. in my town over the last two years there have been bear attacks on all kinds of farm animals: sheep, chickens, horses, as well as domestic pets like rabbits and dogs.

we regularly have 3 bears in our neighborhood including a male which runs about 650 lbs.

don't know if i would eat one - do know that something needs to be done.

[dumpling]

What is the estimate on how many bear there actually are and the effect this will have on the population?  It's not like they're going around chomping on a lot of humans as far as I can tell.

what is more worrisome is that the females that might have one or two cubs each year have had an average of 4-5 per litter the last two years.

For a bear that's an incredible rate!

Any particular reason for the increase? Traditionally elsewhere when one has such an increase one has to cull the population. However, menton and jhlurie have good points as well. Someone (human being) is going to get hurt, and the problem is lack of planning. What about drugging and transporting elsewhere?

[suzilightning]

[For a bear that's an incredible rate!

Any particular reason for the increase?  Traditionally elsewhere when one has such an increase one has to cull the population.  However, menton and jhlurie have good points as well.  Someone (human being) is going to get hurt, and the problem is lack of planning.  What about drugging and transporting elsewhere?

some of the people i talk to at state level(up till this year i was a volunteer with nj fish and wildlife and did most of my time with nongame and endangered species - as well as being a natural resource volunteer with picatinny arsenal) and on post feel it is a combo of a few things - two years ago we had a bumper crop of mast - acorns and other bear goodies - more food more chances of survival for babies. then last year with the drought the bears that had survived the winter became a bit more aggressive with their interactions with humans since they were hungry. you still also have some dopes who live in the middle of bear alley who think nothing of leaving their garbage out all the time. one of our neighborhood bears habitually goes to two houses on the street for this reason - and we have a picture of him sitting back on his rump with a slice of pizza in his paws!! what is upsetting about the sows are many of them are delivering cubs but the mother's weight which should be in the 250+ area is now ranging in the 125-200 area which means her cubs are at a bigger risk of not making it - though that may be a good thing = maybe just the beginning of the down swing of the cycle

up here in the north there has also developed a "green belt" of interconnected trails what can take you from the new york border through passaic, morris, sussex and warren counties without having to cross large highways - seems the bears like these better than the deer paths since they are a bit wider to accomodate us humans.

yeah, the yahoo hunters that come up from the city do scare me a bit - had to deal with them in upstate new york.

as far a drugging and relocating them - i think that might have worked a few years ago but WHERE can we send them? my friends in the catskills don't want them. central part of pa? maybe. perhaps the pine barrens but then you are dealing with the introduction of a nonestablished species into an ecosystem which really upsets the balance - think about swans(imported from England and probably more edible than bear) which have pretty much driven out the native whistling and tundra swans

Edited July 10, 2003 by suzilightning (log)

[Nick]

As for eating bear?  I think I'll pass.

Certain cuts of bear meat are, as they say, better than beef. This is for wild bear, not dumpster-divers. Don't know about them.

Suzi, you've got a better understanding of what's going on than 99.9% of the rest. You ought to get back into fish and wildlife. You're needed.

[Rail Paul]

you still also have some dopes who live in the middle of bear alley who think nothing of leaving their garbage out all the time.  one of our neighborhood bears habitually goes to two houses on the street for this reason - and we have a picture of him sitting back on his rump with a slice of pizza in his paws!!

There is an irony to folks who build their 5,000 square foot McMansions on a quaintly named rural lane like Bear Swamp Road or Bearfort Mountain and have the nerve to complain that bears are in the area.

Pennsylvania and New York both have bear hunts on an annual basis. Permits are granted in a number sufficient to thin the herds. NJ hasn't had a hunt since the 1970s and development has taken much of what was once open bear habitat. I'd say if you move out into bear country (all of Sussex and Warren counties, Upper Passaic and Morris north of I-80, you ought to be prepared to coexist with the bears. Or move.

For folks in areas which haven't seen bears historically like Summit, Madison, Wayne, that's a different story. Whack 'em, and turn them into rugs...

[dumpling]

Thanks for the info Suzi.

As for turning them into rugs, certain Asian buyers will pay up to $40,000 for a bear gallbladder for medicinal purposes, as well as some money for other parts. Can get more than just for a rug.

[menton1]

Just taking a ride on Rtes 10, 206, or 23 and comparing the situation to 10 years ago will prove that the real problem is overdevelopment. As NJ is already the densest state in the US, where does it stop? Does it stop when the whole state starts to look like one big city?

Right on, RP, you echo my sentiments. Most locals up there agree that it's the lack of taking care of household trash that causes most of the problems. As well as the McMansions.

It would be ironic if more people are hurt or injured by the 10,000 rednecks shooting away in the backyards next fall than have ever been hurt by the bears!!

[tommy]

It would be ironic if more people are hurt or injured by the 10,000 rednecks shooting away in the backyards next fall than have ever been hurt by the bears!!

it seems like the hunt will be a bit more organized than that. it's for a limited time, and limited to a certain area.

[Rail Paul]

It would be ironic if more people are hurt or injured by the 10,000 rednecks shooting away in the backyards next fall than have ever been hurt by the bears!!

it seems like the hunt will be a bit more organized than that. it's for a limited time, and limited to a certain area.

I'm guessing it will be similar to either the Morris County or the Princeton deer remediation model. Rednecks need not apply, as shooters tend to be selected from experienced folks, often police officers, or from professional killers

Morris County Model. A large area of public land consenting private land is placed off limits for 2 or 3 days. Selected hunters, with rifles, are placed in elevated tree stands in areas near where bait has been placed. Rifles are not usually allowed for most hunting in NJ, due to the distance issue. Hunting from platforms allows a downward fire, minimizing distance carry. For bears, their habit of returned to a baited area may improve the kill ratio.

Princeton Model. Deer are enveloped in netting and killed with a bolt to the head by professionals. Not especially efficient or pleasant. Not sure that throwing a net around a deer and trying to bolt kill him is good model for doing the same for a bear. It beats trying to convince a male bear to use a condom, though.

If you're looking to kill bears, the best way is to run a den search on the coldest day in February and give the critter and any cubs a lethal injection. Haul them out to the dump when the snow melts.

[lamb]

On a related (sort of) topic:

Geese Killing

I'm not a huge fan of these birds. My kids play soccer and the fields in every town we play in are covered with geese shit.

I think the Colts Neck method was drastic, however.

Just my opinion.

[menton1]

I'm not a huge fan of these birds.  My kids play soccer and the fields in every town we play in are covered with geese shit. 

Sure, that's a good reason to kill all the geese. Especially since their poop is non-toxic and non-disease carrying.

Maybe we should emulate Greece, where they are solving their "nuisance" dog and cat problem (They beg for food in the outdoor retaurants) by methodically poisoning them. They will poison 1/4 million animals in preparation for the Olympics so that no one sees the problem during those 2 weeks. As a matter of fact, poisoning dogs and cats in Greece has become "sport"; you can never let a pet dog or cat out of your sight. More on this: Olympic Greek "Sport"

Maybe we can eliminate ALL the other species of animals on the earth so we don't have to be "inconvenienced".

[tommy]

Maybe we can eliminate ALL the other species of animals on the earth so we don't have to be "inconvenienced".

i'm not sure anyone is suggesting that.

people slip and fall on geese shit all of the time. that's just a fact. shoot 'em i say. kill 'em all!

several studies that i've read suggest that their poop does in fact pose a health risk.

Edited July 10, 2003 by tommy (log)

[ivan]

Paging Mr. Nugent.

[lamb]

I'm not a huge fan of these birds.  My kids play soccer and the fields in every town we play in are covered with geese shit. 

Sure, that's a good reason to kill all the geese. Especially since their poop is non-toxic and non-disease carrying.

Maybe we should emulate Greece, where they are solving their "nuisance" dog and cat problem (They beg for food in the outdoor retaurants) by methodically poisoning them. They will poison 1/4 million animals in preparation for the Olympics so that no one sees the problem during those 2 weeks. As a matter of fact, poisoning dogs and cats in Greece has become "sport"; you can never let a pet dog or cat out of your sight. More on this: Olympic Greek "Sport"

Maybe we can eliminate ALL the other species of animals on the earth so we don't have to be "inconvenienced".

dude, did i say anywhere that I condoned killing the geese??

Tell me where you came up with the fact that their feces is non-toxic and non-disease carrying. Interesting fact. Good to know the next time I'm cleaning it out of my daughter's soccer cleats. Maybe the towns dealing with this all over their athletic fields can make some extra cash by marketing it as some type of non-toxic and non-disease carrying shit.

Edited July 11, 2003 by lamb (log)

[menton1]

A wildlife expert study, all these folks have PHDs.

Goose Droppings Study

Things are not always what they seem.

[tommy]

A wildlife expert study, all these folks have PHDs. 

Goose Droppings Study

Things are not always what they seem.

oh. PHDs. well then you must be right.

[menton1]

oh. PHDs.  well then you must be right. 

So you believe in deduction over education?

What are your criteria for credibility? Only things you are in agreement with?