No beer with tacos?

[cinghiale]

Decided to have a pre-Restaurant Row Fest breakfast at Taqueria Veracruzana Saturday morning. Upon entering, I saw a sign taped to the door: "No alcoholic beverages permitted by order of the police", including a photocopied logo of the Phila Police Dept. The side door had the same sign in Spanish. Huh? I had a late snack there on Thursday, complete with my usual BYO beer. No problemo. I swear I've never seen the sign before (I eat there maybe half-dozen times a month), but my friend, who is also an avid TV fan, says he's seen it "a couple of times". I tried asking, but no one spoke much English and hence didn't understand the query.

This raised a couple of questions with me:

(1) Can the police issue such an order? I always thought it was L&I that made these calls, and then only for nuisances/violations/taxes. For the record: I got up and checked their licenses. Everything for food prep/service seemed in order, so no apparent violations there. Obviously I have no idea about tax status. And as far as I know, TV is a pretty quiet place (no rowdies, drunken workers/partygoers).

(2) Does a restaurant w/out a liquor license require some additional license to permit BYO? I've never heard of such a thing.

(3) Can a restaurant w/out a liquor license refuse to permit you to bring in alcohol? The obvious answer would seem "yes," but this is something that I've also never encountered. Then again, I've never seen anyone drinking beer, wine, whatever at a fast-food chain (here in the U.S., anyway).

Anybody know what gives?

[Holly Moore]

I opened my restaurant as a BYOB. I called the Liquor Control Board, asking if it was legal. Their answer, "It may or may not be." No further explanation. I don't know of any license requirement for BYOB, though it's almost mandatory that what carry liquor liability insurance.

Nor do I think the police can issue such a regularion, though I may be wrong. My suspicion is that the police, after one too many calls for drunk and disorderly, issued some very strong advice that the place stop permitting BYOB.

[KatieLoeb]

cinghiale:

You don't think there's enough of a DAPSI (Drunk Assholes per Square Inch) ratio down at that corner and the next one over with the kitty-corner cheesesteak joints? I'm sure the police are just trying to prevent a trend in the customer base down there where the already drunken idiots demand being allowed to BYOB yet more alcohol because "that Mexican joint up the block does it." It's a shame for us law abiding folk, but I can see that being a serious bone of contention with the already belligerent "just-got-out-of-the-bar-at-last-call" types that seem to be in abundance down there at about 2:05 AM.

[cinghiale]

You don't think there's enough of a DAPSI (Drunk Assholes per Square Inch) ratio down at that corner and the next one over with the kitty-corner cheesesteak joints?

Jeez, I just wanna beer w/my tacos, Katie. Dunno why they changed. I ride my bike thru the Market at all hours, and I don't know what you're talking about w/yr formula

I'm sure the police are just trying to prevent a trend in the customer base down there where the already drunken idiots demand being allowed to BYOB yet more alcohol because "that Mexican joint up the block does it."

Under what law are the police allowed to "prevent a trend"? What "drunken idiots" are you talking about?

It's a shame for us law abiding folk, but I can see that being a serious bone of contention with the already belligerent "just-got-out-of-the-bar-at-last-call" types that seem to be in abundance down there at about 2:05 AM.

"Law-abiding folk"?????? What ARE you talking about? I asked a harmless question about BYO policy and my belief that that is the realm of the LCB. BYOing a bottle of beer offends you? BTW: TV and La Lupe close @ 11 (La Lupe maybe 12).

I guess I'll get my al pastor to go next time...

Edited May 13, 2003 by cinghiale (log)

[KatieLoeb]

You don't think there's enough of a DAPSI (Drunk Assholes per Square Inch) ratio down at that corner and the next one over with the kitty-corner cheesesteak joints?

Jeez, I just wanna beer w/my tacos, Katie. Dunno why they changed. I ride my bike thru the Market at all hours, and I don't know what you're talking about w/yr formula

I'm sure the police are just trying to prevent a trend in the customer base down there where the already drunken idiots demand being allowed to BYOB yet more alcohol because "that Mexican joint up the block does it."

Under what law are the police allowed to "prevent a trend"? What "drunken idiots" are you talking about?

It's a shame for us law abiding folk, but I can see that being a serious bone of contention with the already belligerent "just-got-out-of-the-bar-at-last-call" types that seem to be in abundance down there at about 2:05 AM.

"Law-abiding folk"?????? What ARE you talking about? I asked a harmless question about BYO policy and my belief that that is the realm of the LCB. BYOing a bottle of beer offends you? BTW: TV and La Lupe close @ 11 (La Lupe maybe 12).

I guess I'll get my al pastor to go next time...

WHOA! You have obviously completely misunderstood my post. I was only saying that the police have their hands full already with the lines that are twenty people deep and blocking the intersection of Passyunk & Federal. You clearly haven't seen the loud and intoxicated folks that I have, but if I head down to that area any time after midnight, it's packed with them. I'm sure Holly was correct when he said there's been plenty of calls about drunk and disorderly down there, and having La Lupe ban BYOB was probably the result of that. Whether it was done through the PLCB or not, I have no idea.

I'd much rather be able to go into La Lupe and bring a few beers or some wine with me. I actually have brought wine with me in the past. Your shock and dismay over the prohibition of liquor in the restaurant may not be shared by me, but I sympathize. It just doesn't shock me.

[Allie D'Augustine]

It's funny, I had trouble bringing beer into Pho 75 one time. I figured it was fine, I know they have drinks but no alcohol, and I've brought my own into Pho Ha down the street.

But the guy at Pho 75 had a conniption -- not in a mean way, just in an upset way. Finally he conferred with someone in the back, and came back to say it was okay. But he brought us these big huge styrofoam cups and whisked away our bottles.

Very odd experience, but it's right in the same area, so that must have something to do with whatever kind of trouble they're worried about.

[cinghiale]

Hi, Allie. Nice running into you on eG. Had any good taxicab rides lately that are in need of confession?

Were they serving alcohol at the time at Pho 75? I once ate at a place with a liquor license that owed back taxes. LCB shut down the bar part. Though risky, the owner allowed BYO wine "discreetly" -- bottle kept in the back, wine served in styrofoam cups.

I hope the situation changes at TV, though, cuz nothin' cuts through their zippy chipotle salsa like a cold beer.

[KatieLoeb]

Cinghiale:

I just realized that you were talking about Taqueria Veracruzana NOT La Lupe! For some reason I got the mental picture in my head of the sign taped up to the door on Federal Street, and from there on in, it was downhill all the way. No wonder what I said wasn't making sense. Well - it made sense to me in my geographically misplaced illusion, but never mind. My bad.

[Scoats]

Unless it is seeming to operate as a speakeasy, I have never heard of the police telling a restaurant it can't allow people to consume alcohol there. But the photocopy would seem to indiciate otherwise.

In the biz, if you don't want to do something, it's easy to say "it's against the law". Most folks don't know the law (there are a lot of laws) and will accept it.

Definitely very strange. There is probably something else going on there.

[cinghiale]

No wonder what I said wasn't making sense.

Katie: I was wondering if I were loco, for you always make eminent sense. I was reminded of that line from The Tempest: "You cram these words into mine ears against the stomach of my sense."

Maybe there is a problem, based on Allie's post. And Scoats has a point, too: Just tell your customers that the police have banned BYO, and it's "end of story". Just too bad...

[Holly Moore]

In the biz, if you don't want to do something, it's easy to say "it's against the law". Most folks don't know the law (there are a lot of laws) and will accept it.

Worked for me.

My restaurant was a BYOB for about a year and a half before I saw the light and invested in a liquor license. Once I started serving booze I regretably informed the BYOB'ers that Liquor Control Board regs prohibit customers from bring their own liquor into establishments that have a liquor license. I may even have been right. It sounded good and everyone accepted it.

[Allie D'Augustine]

Cinghiale,

No new taxicab confessions but I will let you know if anything needs confessing! :) Anyway, as far as I know, Pho 75 has never served alcohol -- at least in the year and a half I've been going there. My experience with the beer was just about a month ago. I'll probably try again as the weather gets warmer and I want something cool (not fruit juice!) to go with my spicy hot soup.

Holly: I guess you would've hated me as a customer. I sit there and go, "Really? It's against the law? It wasn't a problem at [name the place]." Actually, that doesn't really work, because whoever it is stammers and goes, "Uhh... " and finally comes up with some variation of "I guess THEY were breaking the law!" Of course, as a relatively recent college grad, I'm unusually well versed in the minutia of the LCB. (Including attending parties where each person, before walking in the door, had to say, "No, I'm not with the LCB." Because apparently, while agents are allowed to crash parties, they aren't allowed to LIE.)

[herbacidal]

(Including attending parties where each person, before walking in the door, had to say, "No, I'm not with the LCB." Because apparently, while agents are allowed to crash parties, they aren't allowed to LIE.)

so, it is like on TV, huh? hmm..

[dannyboy]

And as far as I know, TV is a pretty quiet place (no rowdies, drunken workers/partygoers).

TV IS a quiet place with no rowdies. The trouble, I think, is next door. I wish they would close the place to the left of TV on the corner of 9th and Washington. The sign says something about Korean or Japanese food, but there are nothing but toothless hags lurking around guzzling 40 ouncers of cheap beer. They lurk in and out of that place and are very disruptive to an otherwise up and coming neighborhood. It baffles me why this place has a liquor license, but you can't bring a beer in TV. My guess is that the police have their hands full enough with that festering sore next to TV to want to deal with the possibility of anymore...

[Andrew Fenton]

My restaurant was a BYOB for about a year and a half before I saw the light and invested in a liquor license.  Once I started serving booze I regretably informed the BYOB'ers that Liquor Control Board regs prohibit customers from bring their own liquor into establishments that have a liquor license.  I may even have been right.  It sounded good and everyone accepted it.

Turns out that it is legal for a liquor-licensed establishment to allow BYOBs, at least according to this document, from the PA LCB. Not that I blame Holly or anybody else for using that as a pretext...

(More disturbing is the ruling that kitchen staff can't keep wine or sherry in the kitchen for cooking purposes. That's a) seriously f*cked up, and b) gotta be violated left and right in restaurants.)