THE BEST: Steak in Manhattan

[oakapple]

I think there are too many steakhouses chasing not enough prime beef. Over the last 2-3 years, there's been an explosion in the number of steakhouses. The number of cows yielding the best cuts of meat cannot possibly have grown by a similar proportion.

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i've often said that, but i don't believe it. i think cows are slaughtered for steak under 3 years of age or so. and why can't the number of Prime graded steaks increase? it's set in stone? God's work only? i doubt that.

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It's not set in stone, but has the rate of production increased in lock-step with the rate of consumption? Or are the better steakhouses being forced to settle sometimes for a lower-quality product? Even within Prime, I think some steaks are better than others.

[Nathan]

"Even within Prime, I think some steaks are better than others. "

Yup. There's actually plenty of "Prime" available. That's not the issue.

[slkinsey]

I went to Wolfgang's a couple weeks ago and was completely underwhelmed.

I think there are too many steakhouses chasing not enough prime beef. Over the last 2-3 years, there's been an explosion in the number of steakhouses. The number of cows yielding the best cuts of meat cannot possibly have grown by a similar proportion.

i've often said that, but i don't believe it. i think cows are slaughtered for steak under 3 years of age or so. and why can't the number of Prime graded steaks increase? it's set in stone? God's work only? i doubt that.

This seems like elementary mathematics to me.

The USDA certifies something like three percent (actually 2.4%, I think) of graded beef as prime. If ranchers were able to increase this percentage by repeatable, cost-effective means such as slaughtering at an earlier age or changing feed, they would have done so. These guys are in the business to make money. The margins are low enough as it is, and I feel quite sure that they would do anything that would reasonably increase profit. If it doesn't increase profit, they aren't going to do it. My understanding is that prime cows more or less come "by accident" from cows that are treated just like all the other cows, and it's discovered at slaughter. Wow, this one is prime! It's like making 100 pancakes with the same batter the same way. If you're lucky, maybe 3 of those pancakes will really be awesome. Maybe you could whip the whites and make a higher percentage of awesome pancakes, but you're only going to do that if it means that there's more money in your pocket at the end of the day. A 100% jump from three percent to six percent? Probably not worth it. Fat Guy and I had a long discussion on the ecomonics of beef production with Mel Coleman, Jr. of Coleman Natural Beef. It's a very complicated business.

Who knows? The percentage of prime may change with cloning technology. But for now, I think it's reasonable to suggest that this percentage won't meaningfully increase. Of this three percent, something like eighty percent is exported to Japan. That leaves around half a percent for the American market. In reality, high priced NYC steak houses are playing with a much smaller percentage, because run of the mill USDA prime isn't good enough. They're all competing for "the prime of the prime" sold in America (perhaps five hundredths of a percent of USDA graded beef).

Now, there are three ways the amount of prime graded beef available for the American market can increase. First, ranchers can grow more cows. More cows turns that five hundredths a percent into more prime of the prime beef for the American market. Second, the USDA can relax its grading standards. This has already happened to a certain extent, which is exactly why high priced NYC steak houses seek out "the prime of the prime." Third, we could export less prime beef to Japan. Given the high prices the Japanese are willing to pay for USDA prime beef, this seems unlikely. From the perspective of the diner, only the first solution makes any difference.

All we have to do is think: How many high priced NYC steak houses did we have in, say, 1990? Of course it's possible that there was more "extra" prime of the prime around back in 1990, so we should figure that in. So, if we surmise that there has been a 1000% increase in high priced NYC steak houses over the last 17 years, then there would have to be at least a 200% increase in American beef production over that time period in order to maintain the same prime of the prime quality across all those high priced NYC steak houses. This model assumes that high priced NYC steak houses account for 100% of the increase in demand for this beef over the 17 year period, which seems highly unlikely. In reality, we're probably talking about a minimum of a 500% increase in beef production to satisfy demand for 1990-quality prime of the prime beef. I feel confident that we have not increased beef production by anywhere near this amount,* so it must follow that there is not enough prime of the prime beef to go around to all the restaurants that would like to serve it. This means a net decrease in quality when averaged across all high priced NYC steak houses.

* According to these statistics from the USDA, United States beef production actually decreased over the period 2002 to 2005, from 35.735 million head/27.09 billion pounds to 32.387 million head/24.68 billion pounds.

[oakapple]

All we have to do is think:  How many high priced NYC steak houses did we have in, say, 1990?  Of course it's possible that there was more "extra" prime of the prime around back in 1990, so we should figure that in.  So, if we surmise that there has been a 1000% increase in high priced NYC steak houses over the last 17 years, then there would have to be at least a 200% increase in American beef production over that time period in order to maintain the same prime of the prime quality across all those high priced NYC steak houses.  ....  I feel confident that we have not increased beef production by anywhere near this amount,* so it must follow that there is not enough prime of the prime beef to go around to all the restaurants that would like to serve it.  This means a net decrease in quality when averaged across all high priced NYC steak houses.

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Thanks, Sam. That was precisely what my intuition was telling me — without, of course, the numbers to back it up, which you've supplied.

[tommy]

I went to Wolfgang's a couple weeks ago and was completely underwhelmed.

I think there are too many steakhouses chasing not enough prime beef. Over the last 2-3 years, there's been an explosion in the number of steakhouses. The number of cows yielding the best cuts of meat cannot possibly have grown by a similar proportion.

i've often said that, but i don't believe it. i think cows are slaughtered for steak under 3 years of age or so. and why can't the number of Prime graded steaks increase? it's set in stone? God's work only? i doubt that.

This seems like elementary mathematics to me.

right. more cows would mean more Prime beef.

if there isn't enough Prime to go around, and i do suspect that this might be the case, then i have to wonder how restaurants get away with claiming USDA Prime. Yes, many say "prime", which is meaningless. they're deceiving the public. as Colamecco said, if you want to make sure you're getting USDA Prime at a steakhouse, ask to see the carcass and the stamp.

[slkinsey]

According to this guy the short loin accounts for 16% of the dressed/hanging/carcass weight. Of that, approximately 42.5% is ground beef, stew meat, fat and bone. That leaves us with 9.2% of the carcass that can find its way into porterhouse, strip steak, tenderloin, etc.

If we apply that 9.2 % to the 24.68 billion pounds from 2005, that gives us around 2.27 billion pounds of beef that can potentially be used in these steak house cuts. Three percent of that is 68.1 million pounds of USDA prime. Take away the 80% going to Japan, and we have 13.6 million pounds of USDA prime for the American market. Figure that maybe 10% of that is top quality "prime of the prime" and you get 1.35 million pounds to split among every super-high end steak house in 2005. If you're talking porterhouse only the supply shrinks even more, to around 945 thousand pounds. That's not a lot of beef. Even 13.6 million pounds is not a lot to split among the many establishments that would like to serve it.

[tommy]

there you go with that elementary math again.

i'm thinking we're being fooled some of the time. From local mom-and-pops to the big chains. We already know they often suggest dry-aging, when in reality they're wet-aging.

[slkinsey]

I think it's also often the case that restaurants advertising prime beef only sell one cut of prime beef, and all their other cuts are of lesser quality.

[raji]

Where the hell is Mr. Cutlets when you need him? He wrote the book on this subject!! Literally! We should have a big oven that cooks a whole cow, emanating such a widespread aroma that Mr. Cutlets is alerted, much like Batman's signal...

Oh, here he is...

http://nymag.com/daily/food/2007/01/the_se...iches.html#more

[Nathan]

maybe this is the real problem:

http://www.slate.com/id/2157840/

[tommy]

i had what might have been the best steak i've ever had last night, at Ben and Jack's.

i didn't check the carcass for a Prime stamp, but i didn't have to, as the meat was tender, and had a wonderful minerally flavor. Better than my last couple of steaks at Wolfgang's without a doubt. and the FOH team is gracious and friendly.

[oakapple]

i had what might have been the best steak i've ever had last night, at Ben and Jack's.

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Porterhouse? Strip?

[tommy]

i had what might have been the best steak i've ever had last night, at Ben and Jack's.

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Porterhouse? Strip?

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Porterhouse always at luger's, ben and jack's, and wolfgang's. and bacon. nothing else.

[tupac17616]

Finally got around to trying the Kobe steak at L'Atelier after several visits. The verdict? A little north of amazing.

[Marlene]

There may be an actualy Wolfgang's thread and if there is, this post could be moved there.

I dined tonight at Wolfgang's Tribeca establishment. I've been to the Park Avenue location, and was very happy with it, but the Tribeca location is much closer to my hotel, and since I was dining alone, I didn't want to do a lot of travelling.

It's always amusing to me to see how establishments handle women dining alone. I deliberately made a reservation through Open Table because (a) if I'm paying $200 for dinner, I want to eat at a table, not hunched over a bar, while the latest sports game blares over the tv, or talking to the lone male diner at the bar who can't get a date on Saturday night, and (b) I'm always facinated to see how the staff handles a woman dining alone.

The maitre d' was clearly rattled when I arrived alone and produced my reservation number, however, he reasonably smoothly led me to a table for 4. Too bad it was tucked behind a pillar where it was difficult to see the room or anything else.

The waiters took a little time to adjust, so while they were adjusting I had a martini, which was in fact, perfect. My martini of preference is normally a vodka one, but in the spirit of things (and so I wouldn't appear to be a total rube ) I ordered a gin martini with a twist. I'm not a fan of gin, but this particular martini was just perfect. So much so, that I may have to try another gin martini in the not to distant future!

While the waiters clearly would have preferred to rush me, I set the pace to dinner, by refusing to order until I was about half way through the martini. (And here's a quiet beef about steakhouses, excuse the pun). Porterhouses are designed for a minimum of two. Since I was a single diner, there was no way I could do that, so I had to opt for the rib eye instead. And I don't get this Canadian bacon thing either. To me, Canadian bacon is round, or is peameal. The lovely strips of bacon I had tonight were far and away better than any Canadian strip bacon I can get at home!

Also, Wolfgang's doesn't do half bottles of wine. While I enjoyed their wine list and there were several bottles I would have condsidered had I been sharing the meal, I just didn't think that I could drink a whole bottle of wine and still be able to stand up at the end of the night. ( I mean, I do have class in the morning, and it's probably better not to be handling sharp knives while you're extremely hung over).

By now, my waiter had relaxed enough to joke with me about being carded. (I'd already had the martini, remember). I embarked on a conversation with him about the type of steaks they served, dry aged etc, and ended up telling him I was there to go to Culinary school for a couple of weeks. Things started looking up. All of a sudden, I had more waiters around me than I really needed, but heck, the attention was nice.

I ended up ordering a shrimp cocktail to start, the rib eye, bone in, and german potatoes and a side of Canadian bacon.

Wolfgang's Tribeca does not disappoint in the execution of their food. The rib eye was perfectly med rare, and juicy, and tender and tons of flavour. The potatoes were crisp outside and tender inside. The bacon is bacon, and as I've said, far better than anything I'll ever be able to buy in Canada.

I didn't bother with dessert, because I prefer cheese at the end of the meal and they didn't have a cheese plate. I did have two glasses of a 30 year Fonseca port, which I think, kind of amazed the waiter that I would order.

The maitre 'd stopped by several times to make sure everything was alright and that I was being taken care of. I didn't notice him doing that with any other table so I attributed it to his not being sure of how to handle a woman dining alone in his establishment. Obviously word got through to him via the waiters though, because as I was leaving, he shook my hand, said how pleasant it was to not only meet me but to have a knowledgeable diner in the restaurant, and hoped I would return soon.

Wolfgang's, whether Tribeca or Park Avenue continues to delight me. Now if only they could come up with a Porterhouse for one

[Marlene]

We really enjoyed Wolfgang's and frankly on our last visit, Captain Jack's was a surprise hit.  I am not a fan of Sparks at all.  The Old Homestead was really good as well.  Here's our mini steakhouse review

I'm hoping to try Porterhouse on my upcoming trip to Ny.

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A caveat to this would be that it's Uncle Jack's I think and not Captain Jack's.

[raji]

I'd imagine Captain Jack would lead the pack :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_about_heroin

[FatTony]

Bump. I have a challenge and wondered if you good folks could help with it. I was given a gift voucher for $200 for The Palm last year. I hadn't gotten around to using it, mainly because I associate the place with mediocre steak. But it expires at the end of this month and I'm buggered if I'm leaving two hundred bucks on the table. So me and a friend are Palm-bound tomorrow night.

What should we order? Is one cut a better bet here than another? One school of thought says to forget steak altogether and get the lobster. But I'm no more interested in a mediocre lobster than a second rate steak so I'd want an eGullet endorsement of said strategy first. Another says order a salad and a great bottle of wine. But that seems wrong somehow.

Anyone eaten at the Palm lately? Got an ordering strategy to share?

Much obliged!

Edited to add: We're going to the original Palm on Second Avenue and 45th in Manhattan

Edited October 3, 2007 by FatTony (log)

[rich]

Well, several years later this has changed.

In my opinion, the best are now Wolfgang's and S&W. Sparks has fallen off the radar as far as I'm concerned. It appears to have lost ground after the expansion.

[patrickamory]

I've been eating at all the NYC steakhouses for decades and here is my current roundup. In my experience no steakhouse is 100% consistent, but if you dine at one several times in a year, you get the general trend. YMMV and all that.

- Peter Luger - Steak is of course the porterhouse for as many people as necessary, generally ordered medium rare, sometimes rare for contrast. Absolutely my #1 for years and years, but I can no longer stick up for it. Wildly inconsistent the last several times I've been - chewy and flavorless. Against this, I had quite a decent steak at the Great Neck location in May.

- Mark Joseph - Porterhouse again. The first of the Luger spinoffs in Manhattan (I believe it predated Ben & Jack's, and definitely Wolfgang's). Excellent the last time I went there for steak , which was a few years ago. But I had a burger at the bar last week and it was superb - a good sign.

- Wolfgang's - Porterhouse. Pretty good. The Murray Hill location is better than the Tribeca one, but it might be the loudest restaurant in the United States. So keep that in mind.

- The Palm - double strip, medium rare. Two notes: make sure you go to the original location (the wait is never that bad, and the cooking is definitely superior to all the others), and have them cut the steak at the table, not in the kitchen. I've had my share of not-great steaks at the Palm, but if you follow the above two rules, you'll dine quite well. And the atmosphere can't be beat.

- Gallagher's - kingloin. Completely downhill in the past 5 years - avoid.

- Smith & Wollensky - porterhouse. I've never had a great meal at S&W, and haven't had a decent steak there since 1999 or so. Dry, overcooked, tough, tasteless & served amidst the biggest crowd of yahoos in East Midtown (a difficult prize to win). Avoid.

- Keen's - mutton chop. I'd avoid the steaks in general. The rooms are fantastic if you sit downstairs - upstairs is a tourist-laden hell. Tip: try sitting in the "cafe" room next to the bar. Much more low-key. And there are some deals on bar dishes like hamburger.

- Nebraska - porterhouse. Steep downhill alert. I would have concurred with Mr. Cutlet before 9/11 - ate there frequently, and it was an incredibly weird & good mobster / stripper / strip steak scene. I went there last summer and everything had changed completely. The steak was just OK.

- Bobby Van's - porterhouse. The 46th St. location (in the eastern gallery of the New York Central building) serves superb steak. On many nights, the best in the city. You'll have to put up with an annoying fratboy type crowd, but if you have the right table on the right night, it's not too bad. Really a sleeper - try it out. (The Wall Street location is not as good.)

- Spark's - strip. To my mind, it hasn't been good since they added on the massive expansion. That does mean you can now get seated without bribing the host, but that's the only advantage. And I can't get behind wet-aging. I had okay steaks here years ago, but it would finish a distant last for me now.

Haven't tried in a few years: The Post House, Ben Benson's, Ben & Jack's (but the latter had one of the most depressing rooms I've ever dined in, even though the steak was pretty tasty).

Not gonna comment on non-classic style places - to me it's a completely different cuisine (Strip House, Craft et. al.)

Btw I can't ride for the bacon craze that's taken off in NYC steakhouses. The bacon itself is delicious, but the flavor is so strong that it obliterates your tastebuds, ruining the subtlety of fine dry-aged grain-fed steak in the next course. Now maybe if they served it for dessert...

[dagordon]

Can't really understand anyone who would disagree that the cote de boeuf at Minetta Tavern is fairly obviously the best steak in Manhattan.

[patrickamory]

I'd categorize Minetta Tavern as not a classic steakhouse, so not in the running. True, the thread title asks what's the best steak in Manhattan, but the first post poses it in the context of Peter Luger, so I'm presuming we're talking:

- grainfed, dry-aged Midwestern beef

- porterhouse, T-bone, strip steak or sirloin

- older male waiters

- the offer not to look at a menu

- starters of shrimp cocktail and sliced tomato & onion with blue cheese

- sides of hash browns and creamed spinach

- a clubby, masculine ambience

- and probably a location in midtown

If you add other kinds of steak & restaurant into the equation, the possibilities are endless (and less interesting, in my mind).

[Sneakeater]

If you're talking about dry-aged trad cuts, it seems silly to me to eliminate Minetta.

[Bobster]

No thoughts about Frankie & Johnnie's?

[patrickamory]

If you're talking about dry-aged trad cuts, it seems silly to me to eliminate Minetta.

It's not just the cut, it's the menu, the style, and the experience.