THE BEST: Steak in Manhattan

[Fat Guy]

In some cases, it's just a question of availability: Sparks doesn't offer a porterhouse or a rib steak, as far as I know. Peter Luger, to cite a non-Manhattan example, offers only porterhouse on its dinner menu. To some extent, porterhouse, filet, and strip are in conflict because they're all variants of the short loin sub-primal. That is to say, every porterhouse eliminates a strip and a filet from consideration. Likewise, places that age all their beef aren't likely to serve filet mignon at all. Steakhouses aren't likely to be purchasing whole sides of beef, so good quality rib steaks are far more plentiful than good quality porterhouses, strips, and filets. That's why at a lesser steakhouse the rib is almost always the best choice. I'm sure there are lots of other issues as well.

[tommy]

Tommy has spoken well of Palm, hasn't he?  Maybe on a  different thread.  Haven't been.

plotnicki, i think, claimed that it is the best strip in the city, so is started ordering the strip there. i go for lunch. for 20 dollars, salad included, it is at the very least one of the best deals in the city. the steak has been hit-or-miss. i don't claim to be an expert on steaks, but i have enjoyed the palm for dinner and lunches alike. however, i go with good company, and that's half that battle for me.

point of reference:

s&w: usually a good steak and decent service, depending on the night.

ben bensons: fatty horrible steak

old homestead: had a rib eye. very good. i don't have ribeye at steakhouses generally speaking.

keens: i always enjoy my meal there. again, this might be due to the fact that it's usually pre-game, pre-concert, and my mind is on the company and the night. never walked away unhappy.

gallagher's: i've been unhappy with the over-the-top-gruffniss of the service, and i didn't find the steaks all that special.

les halles: mid-range experience for steaks at best (all things considered)

michael jordons: won't go back.

never been to:

PL

sparks

prime

strip house

it should also be noted that i used to order filet mignon. now i order porterhouse or strip. i'm still coming to grips with my taste and preference as far as the different cuts are concerned.

Edited March 17, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Wilfrid]

I've had acceptable steak at Ben Benson's, lousy at Gallaher's, and both at Keen's (where I like the ambience anyway). Never had anything actually bad at Sparks, S&W or The PostHouse. I guess I'm still saying that I don't see a big range of quality.

Question - there's some kind of chain thing going on with S&W, the PostHouse and maybe some others? Should we assume they share the same source of meat?

I am still not getting the point about different cuts in different restaurants. I know some places don't serve some cuts (although why does a porterhouse eliminate a strip and filet? I mean, you can't serve them all from the same piece of meat, but I don't see why a restaurant can't offer all three). I find it hard to think of anywhere in Manhattan I haven't seen a filet. I don't know - you'd think if a place can get the sourcing, aging and cooking right, it could deal with the different cuts.

Anyway, my advice is go to Kansas City.

Edit: Here's some information at the S&W web-site. I see Cite's part of the chain, and I wouldn't go there for a steak...so... And I bet they don't age the filet 28 days. Anyway, click away.

Edited March 17, 2003 by Wilfrid (log)

[Wilfrid]

I see S&W serve filet mignon, but not strip steaks. I wonder what they do with the rest of the porterhouse? Or do they buy the filets ready cut? This thread is getting me ready to start a steak 101 over on general foods.

Meantime, I found the explanatory pages on Lobels' web-site very clear and helpful. There's a link to cuts of beef on that page.

[Fat Guy]

I am still not getting the point about different cuts in different restaurants.  I know some places don't serve some cuts (although why does a porterhouse eliminate a strip and filet?  I mean, you can't serve them all from the same piece of meat, but I don't see why a restaurant can't offer all three).  I find it hard to think of anywhere in Manhattan I haven't seen a filet.  I don't know - you'd think if a place can get the sourcing, aging and cooking right, it could deal with the different cuts.

You're assuming an unlimited supply of high-quality beef. There isn't one. The steakhouses battle for the best. It's the reason Peter Luger is better than any other steakhouse: it gets the best beef. Everything else has to be done correctly as well, but ultimately the differentiation is going to come down to the beef. If you look at MarkJoseph versus Peter Luger -- a situation where all procedures are pretty much identical -- you can see how the quality of ingredients is the ultimate deciding factor when comparing similar steakhouses. So, given that it's a constant battle to secure great beef, some steakhouses (the best ones, it so happens) choose to specialize in one cut. It improves purchasing power and it allow some steakhouses to work around other steakhouses' purchasing patterns. For example, there are only a limited number of porterhouses in a great short loin, but you can continue to cut New York strips from farther down that loin. So if you serve strips only, you have a chance of getting better meat than if you serve porterhouses. Likewise, the reason there is virtually no truly great filet mignon available in the steakhouse market is that almost all the best filet portions are incorporated into porterhouses.

[Rail Paul]

Doesn't Ducasse have a special deal with a beef producer out in Wellton AZ which provides beef drawn from cattle raised and finished to AD's specifications? I suspect the artisanal, custom beef raiser will always have an edge in a business where steers are often a commodity.

Jamison Farms out in Latrobe PA makes much of their organic grass, special feed mixes, etc, and collects a significantly above commodity price for their lambs. Picholine even mentions them by name as a preferred supplier.

[Fat Guy]

As I understand it, Ducasse doesn't use the Arizona grass-fed beef for his rib steak entree anymore. He may have when he first opened, but people didn't like it. I think he gets the rib steaks from DiBragga now just like most of the top restaurants. The Arizona beef shows up in other preparations, like the wok-seared strips of beef that sometimes come as an accompaniment. I'd have to double-check this all to be sure, but I think this is what one of the sous-chefs told me last year.

Some steakhouse chains have developed relationships directly with ranchers, but the best steakhouses seem to go through the normal meat distribution channels. The buyers from Peter Luger are out there at the markets several times a week, looking at short loins from multiple purveyors, and picking the best of the best.

[Liza]

Some steakhouse chains have developed relationships directly with ranchers, but the best steakhouses seem to go through the normal meat distribution channels.

Now this seems counter-intuitive to me. If there is a shortage of fine beef out there, wouldn't it behoove the best steakhouses (and best restaurants in general) to seek out the ranchers that are producing the best meat? Restaurants have relationships with artisanal lamb, pork and sheep producers - why not beef?

[Fat Guy]

If you can get the best .1% from 100 different high-quality purveyors, it's likely to be more advantageous than getting the best 10% from 1 purveyor. That seems to be the Peter Luger principle.

[mogsob]

My vote for the best cuts at the majors:

Frank's -- T-Bone

Gallagher's -- double sirloin ("kingloin")

Keen's -- mutton chop

Old Holmstead -- rib steak

Palm -- double sirloin

Peter Luger -- porterhouse

Smith & Wollensky -- Colorado ribeye

Sparks -- sirloin

[Fat Guy]

At Smith & Wollensky, "Colorado rib" is one of the names they give to the rib steak that has been aged longer than usual.

[SteveW]

Anyone know how much %-wise of the USDA Prime beef goes to Japan? And do they get the best of the best(by paying the highest prices)? Does the Lobel's butcher shop get the best of the best of all the USDA Prime beef cuts? And do they aged their filets, just as long as their other beef cuts?

-------------

Steve

[Fat Guy]

Anyone know how much %-wise of the USDA Prime beef goes to Japan?

About 80% of USDA Prime beef is exported, mostly to Japan.

And do they get the best of the best(by paying the highest prices)?

What I've heard is that the Japanese get most of the best of the best, though enough of it stays here to supply the very top echelon of steakhouses and butchers, like Peter Luger and Lobel's.

Does the Lobel's butcher shop get the best of the best of all the USDA Prime beef cuts?

That's what many people I've spoken to in the industry have indicated.

And do they aged their filets, just as long as their other beef cuts?

Not likely, but you could e-mail Lobel's and ask. They're very responsive, in my experience.

[Fat Guy]

In addition: there is value in the prestige of being able to say you sell meat to Luger's; there is the good old fashioned practice of family members going out there to the markets several times a week and hand-picking every carcass; and Luger's most likely has a narrower margin on its steaks, because it owns that building in Brooklyn and does tremendous turnover.

[Suzanne F]

I'm glad to see Old Homestead mentioned favorably for rib steak. Not that I eat it much (too rich!), but I prefer their prime rib to all others. So it makes sense that the rib steak should be good.

Does anyone REALLY believe that MarkJoseph is the Manhattan successor to PL? I've seen it written, but can give absolutely no credence to it (only judging by MJ experiences )

[TrishCT]

I can readily see how Lobels secure the quality meat that they do.  I wonder how Luger can outbid more expensive Manhattan steakhouses?

--Luger's saves a ton of money by only accepting cash and their in house charge. It really adds up.

[claire797]

What about 63rd Street Steakhouse near Lincoln Center? We've eaten there twice and the steak has been very good. Nice atmosphere too.

Spark's was great. Clubby atmosphere didn't bother me at all.

S&W was just okay. Nothing to write home about

Palm is good for Prime Rib, but haven't had their steaks.

Still haven't tried Peter Luger's and probably won't.

[rich]

Aside from Greenwich Village's Inside, does any other restaurant offer the Newport cut?

[Elissa]

The rare strip last night at Sparks: an even sear showed off the fibers and made the meat just enough done. Pretty marbliing; spinach good. Rolls actually not bad. Brought a Valderiz Ribera del Duero. $30 corkage. But unless you just klobbered and dragged your steak to your camp fire I must ask, why no bordelaise? Or chimmichurri or horseradish or something.

And so much: the fellow with whom I went ate the whole thing and found himself of course uncomfortably stuffed. We both had 'Sirloins' from the menu, only that and filet were listed. Just now do I see that Wilfred mentions to ask for a double? Chocolate cake best to avoid.

Faint whiff of grampa cigars in a den of swaggering Karl Malden and Gene Hackmans. While the Old Homestead's downtown meatmarket prohibition BUtterfield8 John O'Hara docks steaks may have more heart, Sparks' were seared exsqueezitely.

Which Manhatta steak is the most film noir?

Edited March 26, 2003 by lissome (log)

[Fat Guy]

Sparks has long persisted in the incorrect labeling of its New York strip. It is not a sirloin. It is a New York strip. But nobody there seems to care.

[TrishCT]

Its been a couple weeks since my first trip to Luger's.... and I don't even want to order steak out anymore, because I don't want to eat inferior meat... rut roh...

[SteveW]

What about for the best rib-eye steaks in Manhattan? Rib steaks have been mentioned in this thread, but I don't regard them as the exact same thing as rib-eyes(if the bone is removed from rib steaks). How popular is the rib-eye(also known as rib steak, bone-out) cut in Manhattan?

Where in the United States is the best USDA Prime beef coming from? Is it all coming from the Mid-West? Specifically which state(s) has the best?

---------------

Steve

[Fat Guy]

Where in the United States is the best USDA Prime beef coming from? Is it all coming from the Mid-West? Specifically which state(s) has the best?

A lot of the processing has traditionally been done in the Midwest, but most of the best American beef comes from the Western states like Colorado and Nebraska aka cowboy country. The herds move around depending on the season so it's not as though they dwell in any one state, but "Western beef" is the gold standard.

[Rail Paul]

but most of the best American beef comes from the Western states like Colorado aka cowboy country. The herds move around depending on the season so it's not as though they dwell in any one state, but "Western beef" is the gold standard.

Whe Dee and I were out in central Colorado last year, folks in Gunnison assured us their beef was regularly selected for premium NY restaurants. Mountain snow melt water, 7000 foot altitude, fresh grass, minimal heat stress, etc.

It would make sense that some bloodlines and some ranchers will regularly produce consistently top notch, but I'm sure every grower in the US and Alberta probably says the same thing.

[Fat Guy]

Most aren't necessarily trying to produce steakhouse-quality steak. That's a specialized market that represents a very small percentage of beef sales.