I'm in need of help to get a 60:40 mixture of dark chocolate and dry powdered ingredients into a polycarbonate mold

[5StarChilliBar]

I have a product that mixes dark chocolate and dry-powdered ingredients at a 60:40 ratio into 100g polycarbonate Chocolate Bar moulds.

As you can imagine, when 60g of chocolate is mixed with 40g of chocolate it forms a dry, doughy consistency that does not pour into a mould and must be pressed in, then scraped and smoothed across the top.

I am really struggling to find a machine capable of taking a mixture and getting it deposited into a machine - to do so manually would take 10 minutes per three bars and I do need to be producing 3 figures of units per day.

Do you know of any machine or process that could help me perform this task? I am really at a loose end and could do with any help offered.

Thank you and I hope to hear back from you soon,

CW

[pastrygirl]

But why?  I have a hard time believing that's a good eating experience, sounds like it would suck all the moisture out of your mouth.

 

If you're adding cocoa to get a more intense chocolate, consider Valrhona's Couer de Guanaja.  Or just use a darker chocolate.  Valrhona has the 85% Abinao, Felchlin has 88% ...

 

If the mix doesn't have enough fat to flow and spread on its own, I don't see how a depositor would help beyond portioning.  Either add cocoa butter or find some of the dry ingredients used for flavor in oil form. 

 

If it's dry and doughy and you like it that way, can you treat it like a dough?  Roll it out and cut it or press it into a frame and cut?  

 

[Kerry Beal]

Indeed - as @pastrygirlsays - this doesn't really sound like a product that lends itself to a mold. Might be better to be making a dough with it and using some sort of texture sheet to roll it out on then cutting into a bar shape. 

[5StarChilliBar]

Hi guys,

 

Not quite what I expected :P Let's just say, the product isn't meant for direct consumption.

 

I'm exploring the route where I basically flatten out a large sheet of the mixture into an even height and then use a cookie-cutter to cut the shapes and leave the chocolate to set. Not sure how time-efficient this is.

 

I'm also looking at using a hydraulic press and over-dosing my mixture into the polycarbonate moulds, then cleaning off the excess. Again not sure how to prevent the mixture just sticking to the top sheet.

 

 

I can't really add anything to the product like cocoa butter etc.

 

 

So basically, I can get the product I want by dosing into the mould and then manually pushing and spreading and smoothing, but it just takes too long. Definitely need a way to get it sped up so will look at the cookie idea

[teonzo]

Try looking at cookie depositors with wire cutter.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[pastrygirl]

How do you even temper something that thick? 

 

Anyway, if you're pressing it into molds, you could lay a plastic sheet (acetate, guitar sheet, etc) over the top then press with a flat plate and the excess will squish out the sides.  Leave the sheet in place until the chocolate has solidified then peel it off.  Like the way people seal their bonbon bottoms with transfer sheets.

 

Can I ask if this is your own product or something you're producing for a client?  The client doesn't always understand how chocolate actually works ... I had a client who wanted me to add a lot of dry material to chocolate, lets just say that's a past client not current.  How fine are the particles?  I don't know if further refining the dry would help or hinder fluidity.  Do you have any sort of melanger?

Edited September 20, 2020 by pastrygirl (log)

[teonzo]

30 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Can I ask if this is your own product or something you're producing for a client?

 

Seems like it's something in the vein of hot chocolate powder, but in bar form. You break a piece of the bar, add it to hot milk/water, let it melt and you get your hot drink. A guy in Italy is making good money with a similar product, people think that a bar is more natural than a powder.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[pastrygirl]

58 minutes ago, teonzo said:

 

Seems like it's something in the vein of hot chocolate powder, but in bar form. You break a piece of the bar, add it to hot milk/water, let it melt and you get your hot drink. A guy in Italy is making good money with a similar product, people think that a bar is more natural than a powder.

 

 

 

Teo

 

 

Interesting, does it melt well?  Definitely a unique way to market it and stand out from the zillions of powder cocoa mixes.  

[JeanneCake]

If it were a dough type consistency, I'd experiment with lining a rectangular bread/loaf pan with a sling of foil or parchment, press the mixture in, tamp it down, use the sling to get it out when it's firm, then slice it ..... ?

[teonzo]

15 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

Interesting, does it melt well?

 

People say so. I never tried it, not my cup of tea.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[jimb0]

On 9/20/2020 at 4:29 PM, pastrygirl said:

 

Interesting, does it melt well?  Definitely a unique way to market it and stand out from the zillions of powder cocoa mixes.  

I’ve seen these all over North America, too, and you’re right - which is why, I think, they’re still the domain of boutique or upscale products.

 

i sort of assumed op was making a chocolate and chili bar based on their name :v

[5StarChilliBar]

On 9/26/2020 at 10:45 PM, jimb0 said:

I’ve seen these all over North America, too, and you’re right - which is why, I think, they’re still the domain of boutique or upscale products.

 

i sort of assumed op was making a chocolate and chili bar based on their name :v

 

Haha, nearly but not quite. It's certainly not confectionary, but that's all I'll say!!

 

I experimented with my Father in Law's hydraulic press. We overdosed the polycarbonate chocolate cavities with the mixture, then put a hard plastic plate over the top, which was lined with baking parchment paper. We then applied about 2.5 tonnes of force gradually from the press and the mixture was forced into the mould and the excess spurted out the side.

 

Two problems were then apparent -

 

1) Air pockets were trapped at the bottom with absolutely no way of escaping, so there were minor cavities in the product, and

2) The product stuck to the parchment paper on release, which ruined the appearance of the product and I lost about 5% of mixture.

[pastrygirl]

3 hours ago, 5StarChilliBar said:

2) The product stuck to the parchment paper on release, which ruined the appearance of the product and I lost about 5% of mixture.

 

Was the chocolate mixture tempered and allowed to fully crystallize or did you remove the parchment immediately after pressing? 

[Kerry Beal]

4 hours ago, 5StarChilliBar said:

 

Haha, nearly but not quite. It's certainly not confectionary, but that's all I'll say!!

 

I experimented with my Father in Law's hydraulic press. We overdosed the polycarbonate chocolate cavities with the mixture, then put a hard plastic plate over the top, which was lined with baking parchment paper. We then applied about 2.5 tonnes of force gradually from the press and the mixture was forced into the mould and the excess spurted out the side.

 

Two problems were then apparent -

 

1) Air pockets were trapped at the bottom with absolutely no way of escaping, so there were minor cavities in the product, and

2) The product stuck to the parchment paper on release, which ruined the appearance of the product and I lost about 5% of mixture.

Maybe put a thin layer of chocolate first in the mold then the mixture behind. Perhaps try acetate on the back. 

[5StarChilliBar]

53 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Maybe put a thin layer of chocolate first in the mold then the mixture behind. Perhaps try acetate on the back. 

 

It comes out quite cleanly from the polycarbonate, so I don't think that's necessary :)

 

2 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Was the chocolate mixture tempered and allowed to fully crystallize or did you remove the parchment immediately after pressing? 

 

No, it went straight off. Should I be pressing it, then leaving the parchment on until it fully dries? Can melted chocolate set properly at room temp or does it need a fridge? Thanks.

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, 5StarChilliBar said:

 

Should I be pressing it, then leaving the parchment on until it fully dries? Can melted chocolate set properly at room temp or does it need a fridge? Thanks.

yes, and yes if room temp is cool and dry - best around 65-68f with less than 50% humidity. 

[5StarChilliBar]

34 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

yes, and yes if room temp is cool and dry - best around 65-68f with less than 50% humidity. 

heres another question and I suspect I know the answer. 
 

I previously made a batch of mixture and had it all tempered and stuff. I experimented with some ways to get it into a mould quickly and it failed. So I packed the mixture up into a tub and chucked it into the fridge.  
 

that was a few days ago. Now I’ve reheated the mixture until it’s molten and applied it to the mould again. It’s in there nicely but it’s not setting. I suspect this is because I didn’t temper it - I heated it without much precaution and I think from my basic understanding it’s gotten too hot and de-crystallised, which stops it forming again into a regular structure and setting. 

[Kerry Beal]

3 hours ago, 5StarChilliBar said:

 

It comes out quite cleanly from the polycarbonate, so I don't think that's necessary

 

 

No, it went straight off. Should I be pressing it, then leaving the parchment on until it fully dries? Can melted chocolate set properly at room temp or does it need a fridge? Thanks.

No - but you wouldn't see the bubbles.