Melanger experimentation

[curls]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:33 AM, Rajala said:

Yeah, no issues to change the ratio of sugar. More sugar = higher viscosity.

 

For pistachio praliné, I usually go 60% pistachio, 40% sugar, and I also add 10% of total weight in pistachio oil.

 

@Rajala and @Jim D. what have you made with your pistachio praliné? I'm starting a batch with your recommended 60% pistachio | 40% sugar with some of the pistachio flour that Kerry brought to the chocolate and confections workshop. Did either of you warm (or toast) the pistachios?

[Jim D.]

34 minutes ago, curls said:

@Rajala and @Jim D. what have you made with your pistachio praliné? I'm starting a batch with your recommended 60% pistachio | 40% sugar with some of the pistachio flour that Kerry brought to the chocolate and confections workshop. Did either of you warm (or toast) the pistachios?

 

I already had some pistachio paste (plain, no caramel), so simply ground some caramel with the paste.  If I were to start with pistachios, I would toast them very slightly, just until they smell fragrant.  I have used a Notter recipe for pistachio ganache, which I thought was OK but did not have sufficient pistachio taste for me.  I now make pistachio praline gianduja and obtain much more nut flavor.  I tasted all types of chocolate and found that white worked best for me (the others overwhelmed the pistachio taste, which my experiments taught me is quite delicate).  I also found that adding a few toasted and chopped pistachios to each cavity before piping the gianduja improved the taste (and yes, I realize that it is completely counter-intuitive to make a smooth paste and then add nuts).  My favorite way to use the gianduja is to pipe a layer of PdF (usually cherry) and then pistachio gianduja on top.

[curls]

Thank you @Jim D.! Pistachio and cherry was my plan. I have some tart cherries that I thought might work well. Waiting for the batch to be done to do tastings with tart cherries vs. morello cherries. Also wondering if this would work well with glace amarena cherries.   

 

Have you tried this with pistachio praline? I'm wondering if that would have more pistachio punch than pistachio gianduja.

 

Also considering combining with a raspberry or red currant pdf.

Edited June 18, 2023 by curls (log)

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, curls said:

Thank you @Jim D.! Pistachio and cherry was my plan. I have some tart cherries that I thought might work well. Waiting for the batch to be done to do tastings with tart cherries vs. morello cherries. Also wondering if this would work well with glace amarena cherries.   

 

Have you tried this with pistachio praline? I'm wondering if that would have more pistachio punch than pistachio gianduja.

 

Also considering combining with a raspberry or red currant pdf.

 

When I mentioned pistachio and cherry, I meant to say "pistachio praline gianduja."  I use Morello cherry purée in the PdF (that was the only kind available from my supplier).  To decrease the Aw of my PdFs, I supplement the purée with some dried fruit (if a dried fruit exists for the fruit in question).  Adding those solids lowers the Aw significantly.  For dried cherries I use some Montmorency ones from Michigan, which are quite tart.  I am not sure how sweet amarena cherries are, but I don't see why they wouldn't work with pistachio.  And i think raspberry and red currant would be fine.  I have some red currant purée, so will give that try (though I doubt that I will find dried red currants for my Aw concerns).  I also found that adding a significant amount of sea salt to the pistachio praline gianduja really brings out its flavor.  What type of chocolate are you using with the pistachio?  As I said, I mix the pistachio with white chocolate, but generally I make the shells with dark in my continuing efforts to reduce bonbon sweetness..

[curls]

13 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

When I mentioned pistachio and cherry, I meant to say "pistachio praline gianduja."  I use Morello cherry purée in the PdF (that was the only kind available from my supplier).  To decrease the Aw of my PdFs, I supplement the purée with some dried fruit (if a dried fruit exists for the fruit in question).  Adding those solids lowers the Aw significantly.  For dried cherries I use some Montmorency ones from Michigan, which are quite tart.  I am not sure how sweet amarena cherries are, but I don't see why they wouldn't work with pistachio.  And i think raspberry and red currant would be fine.  I have some red currant purée, so will give that try (though I doubt that I will find dried red currants for my Aw concerns).  I also found that adding a significant amount of sea salt to the pistachio praline gianduja really brings out its flavor.  What type of chocolate are you using with the pistachio?  As I said, I mix the pistachio with white chocolate, but generally I make the shells with dark in my continuing efforts to reduce bonbon sweetness..

Not sure yet which chocolate I will use with the pistachio but I’ll be experimenting with thIs batch of pistachio praline and will report  back.

 

Interesting that you add dried fruit to your pdf. I haven’t done that but am very happy with the shelf life on my pdfs. I do boil down the fruit purée to about half to concentrate it and eliminate some water.

Edited June 19, 2023 by curls (log)

[Rajala]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:54 PM, curls said:

@Rajala and @Jim D. what have you made with your pistachio praliné? I'm starting a batch with your recommended 60% pistachio | 40% sugar with some of the pistachio flour that Kerry brought to the chocolate and confections workshop. Did either of you warm (or toast) the pistachios?

 

I used super green pistachio kernels from Iran and didn't want to ruin the color too much. I toasted them for like 3 minutes to get a little bit of the toasted taste. I've made a simple bonbon with a tiny bit of pure pistachio praline in the top and then a caramellized white chocolate ganache. Super pleasant together. It's quite sweet as you can imagine but if you don't use too much it will work well and match it with something like cherries sound great. I've also made some pistachio "gianduja" with some pomegranate pdf  and used it for pistachio mousseline and such for pastries.

[pastrygirl]

9 hours ago, Rajala said:

I've made a simple bonbon with a tiny bit of pure pistachio praline in the top and then a caramellized white chocolate ganache.

 

I did something similar once with hazelnut and the bonbons ended up losing their shine due to nut oil migrating through the shell.  I think milk chocolate is a little less susceptible to that?  Anyway, just to note that those might have a shorter shelf life, appearance-wise.

 

And you guys are making me want to do something pistachio.  I always liked them with apricots.

Edited July 2, 2023 by pastrygirl (log)

[Rajala]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:06 AM, pastrygirl said:

I did something similar once with hazelnut and the bonbons ended up losing their shine due to nut oil migrating through the shell.  I think milk chocolate is a little less susceptible to that?  Anyway, just to note that those might have a shorter shelf life, appearance-wise.

 

Yeah, I've read that somewhere due to the fat composition in the milk chocolate. 5th grade science experiment? Put some cocoa butter pellets together with pure nut oil and see what happens after a while.

[SweetandSnappyJen]

Hi all - here's one!  

 

I put some caramelized hazelnuts in, left it for 45 minutes or so, went to check, and it was still running, but a soupy mess all over the walls, counter,  floor, and all over the base of machine. This has never happened in the oodles of times I used it. Has anyone else encountered an explosion like this?

 

Thanks!

Jen

[pastrygirl]

1 hour ago, SweetandSnappyJen said:

I put some caramelized hazelnuts in, left it for 45 minutes or so, went to check, and it was still running, but a soupy mess all over the walls, counter,  floor, and all over the base of machine. This has never happened in the oodles of times I used it. Has anyone else encountered an explosion like this?

 

Oh no!

 

Do you have really high humidity?  Maybe the caramel on the nuts absorbed too much water and the paste 'broke'?

[SweetandSnappyJen]

33 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Oh no!

 

Do you have really high humidity?  Maybe the caramel on the nuts absorbed too much water and the paste 'broke'?

That's an interesting theory, @pastrygirl!  It is indeed humid. But not terribly so. Also, the paste is thinner than usual, but doesn't seem broken per se. After some digging around, I'm wondering if it was too small of a batch. I've never really considered the batch size because I usually do a decent amount. Is there a minimum amount that you tend to abide by? I'm currently doing another and bigger batch (and babysitting it, my poor ears!) and so far so good...

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by SweetandSnappyJen (log)

[Jim D.]

11 minutes ago, SweetandSnappyJen said:

That's and interesting theory, @pastrygirl!  It is indeed humid. But not terribly so. Also, the paste is thinner than usual, but doesn't seem broken per se. After some digging around, I'm wondering if it was too small of a batch. I've never really considered the batch size because I usually do a decent amount. Is there a minimum amount that you tend to abide by? I'm currently doing another and bigger batch (and babysitting it, my poor ears!) and so far so good...

 

 

Which size do you have?   For the 8-lb. melanger, here are the figures:  Minimum capacity 2.5lbs/1kg; Maximum capacity 8lbs/3.5kg .

 

Nuts differ a lot in the amount of oil they contain.  The California pistachio paste I often use is rather thick, certainly not fluid enough to pour.  I just got some Italian pistachio paste, and it's the consistency of olive oil.

 

Did you "pre-grind" the hazelnuts before putting them in the melanger?

 

 

[pastrygirl]

In my humidity theory, the sugar would probably separate and stick to the rollers, so IDK 🤷‍♀️

 

I hope this batch works better! 🤞

[SweetandSnappyJen]

22 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

In my humidity theory, the sugar would probably separate and stick to the rollers, so IDK 🤷‍♀️

 

I hope this batch works better! 🤞

It definitely worked better, @pastrygirl!  I spent the day doing a few other nut varieties (pecans, almonds, pistachio) in larger quantities and while there was still a bit of 'spitting', it ran normally (and cleaned the walls and floor while keeping an eye out:) @Jim D. - I did grind the hazelnuts beforehand, I think I just did too small of a batch. And you're totally right, it's possible this batch of hazelnuts was more oily so that could have contributed. How did you like the Italian pistachio paste?  

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, SweetandSnappyJen said:

It definitely worked better, @pastrygirl!  I spent the day doing a few other nut varieties (pecans, almonds, pistachio) in larger quantities and while there was still a bit of 'spitting', it ran normally (and cleaned the walls and floor while keeping an eye out:) @Jim D. - I did grind the hazelnuts beforehand, I think I just did too small of a batch. And you're totally right, it's possible this batch of hazelnuts was more oily so that could have contributed. How did you like the Italian pistachio paste?  

 

Glad you had more success with this batch.  I don't know which version of the melanger you have, but the new model has a lid.

 

Somewhere on eG I did a comparison of Sicilian and California (Fiddyment Farms) pistachio paste, and having them both on hand now has brought me to the same conclusion:  Fiddyment Farms has a brighter, fresher, more pistachio-y taste, whereas the Sicilian (this brand is Corsiglia and is available from L'Epicérie) is richer and darker.  I don't understand why the texture is so different; it must be due to the nature of Sicilian pistachios.  Fiddyment does not grind the pistachios into a completely smooth paste.  The price is very different.  a 2-kilo container of Fiddyment is $134; same amount of Corsiglia is $222.

[Rajala]

That's crazy, with soupy mess. The one thing I can add which doesn't help: I made a praliné during the summer once, and its texture became very very strange. But no mess though.

[SweetandSnappyJen]

1 hour ago, Rajala said:

That's crazy, with soupy mess. The one thing I can add which doesn't help: I made a praliné during the summer once, and its texture became very very strange. But no mess though.

I guess, a delicious soup!

 

19 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

Glad you had more success with this batch.  I don't know which version of the melanger you have, but the new model has a lid.

 

Somewhere on eG I did a comparison of Sicilian and California (Fiddyment Farms) pistachio paste, and having them both on hand now has brought me to the same conclusion:  Fiddyment Farms has a brighter, fresher, more pistachio-y taste, whereas the Sicilian (this brand is Corsiglia and is available from L'Epicérie) is richer and darker.  I don't understand why the texture is so different; it must be due to the nature of Sicilian pistachios.  Fiddyment does not grind the pistachios into a completely smooth paste.  The price is very different.  a 2-kilo container of Fiddyment is $134; same amount of Corsiglia is $222.

I think I have the Spectra 11 and a lid sounds incredible! 

[Jim D.]

I understand that substances ground in a melanger must be water-free, so I am looking for a way around that restriction that will provide the flavor I am looking for.  I'm following a Kirsten Tibballs recipe that includes a macadamia and coconut praliné.  She includes precautions for a regular food processor (which, she says, can overheat and cause the nut oil to separate from the mixture), and she mentions the possibility of using a melanger.  Since so many people dislike the texture of coconut, I plan to go with the latter alternative.  But I am concerned that the coconut flavor will be overwhelmed by the caramelized macadamias.  So my goal is to add more coconut flavor.  In a ganache I would turn to one of the natural flavorings on the market, but they are water-based.  That led me to the idea of adding some non-deodorized coconut oil, which has a great coconut flavor.  My question is simple:  does anyone see any problem with adding coconut oil to the nuts and toasted coconut in the melanger?  When chocolate is added later, it would make the mixture more of a meltaway than a gianduja, so I'm getting a cautionary light in my head that adding coconut oil to macadamia oil might be problematic.

[Kerry Beal]

12 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I understand that substances ground in a melanger must be water-free, so I am looking for a way around that restriction that will provide the flavor I am looking for.  I'm following a Kirsten Tibballs recipe that includes a macadamia and coconut praliné.  She includes precautions for a regular food processor (which, she says, can overheat and cause the nut oil to separate from the mixture), and she mentions the possibility of using a melanger.  Since so many people dislike the texture of coconut, I plan to go with the latter alternative.  But I am concerned that the coconut flavor will be overwhelmed by the caramelized macadamias.  So my goal is to add more coconut flavor.  In a ganache I would turn to one of the natural flavorings on the market, but they are water-based.  That led me to the idea of adding some non-deodorized coconut oil, which has a great coconut flavor.  My question is simple:  does anyone see any problem with adding coconut oil to the nuts and toasted coconut in the melanger?  When chocolate is added later, it would make the mixture more of a meltaway than a gianduja, so I'm getting a cautionary light in my head that adding coconut oil to macadamia oil might be problematic.

What about just melanging dried coconut to add more coconut flavor?

[Jim D.]

7 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

What about just melanging dried coconut to add more coconut flavor?

 

That might work, though too much could make the praliné too thick.  After I wrote the initial post I found coconut flavoring made from oil.  I started thinking about the issue because a coconut ganache (Notter recipe) doesn't have enough flavor on its own (for my taste), so I add an Amoretti natural coconut flavoring and/or compound.

[pastrygirl]

@Jim D.

 

If the coconut isn't already toasted, toasting will amp up the flavor.

 

Also, coconut cream powder! $1-2 per packet at Asian grocers.  I mix it with toasted coconut and white chocolate in my coconut bars.

https://www.amazon.com/Coconut-Cream-Powder-Chao-Thai/dp/B0095VQH5M

 

I would not add more coconut oil, the coconut and macadamia will release plenty on their own.  Does this get mixed with chocolate?  

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by pastrygirl (log)

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

@Jim D.

 

If the coconut isn't already toasted, toasting will amp up the flavor.

 

Also, coconut cream powder! $1-2 per packet at Asian grocers.  I mix it with toasted coconut and white chocolate in my coconut bars.

https://www.amazon.com/Coconut-Cream-Powder-Chao-Thai/dp/B0095VQH5M

 

I would not add more coconut oil, the coconut and macadamia will release plenty on their own.  Does this get mixed with chocolate?  

 

 

 

Thanks for the coconut cream powder idea.  As I picture the macadamia oil getting released, the thought of adding more oil does not sound like a good idea.

 

Yes, Kirsten calls for mixing with milk chocolate, which is what made me concerned about weaker flavors getting lost.

[Jim D.]

@pastrygirl, would you add the coconut powder during the melanging, or is it easy enough to mix in that it could be added at the end?

[pastrygirl]

Add it during the melanging.

[Jim D.]

I just received a micro-batch accessory kit for the Premier melanger.  Providing manuals and keeping instructions up to date are not a strong suit for the company.  There was no manual, and so far no one has answered my request for help.  I realize that mechanically inclined people would immediately know what to do, but I am not in that category.  Companies should realize they need to provide really basic instructions for all their users and make no assumptions.  A shorter center spindle was provided with the kit, so I realize that replaces the longer one, but the longer one is, so far, impossible to remove (with pliers or channel-lock wrench).  I don't want to do any damage, but does it take a lot of effort to remove it?

 

Next, does the small bowl replace the large bowl or sit inside it (as is the case with many food processors)?

 

Thanks for any help.