Melanger experimentation

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I just received a micro-batch accessory kit for the Premier melanger.  Providing manuals and keeping instructions up to date are not a strong suit for the company.  There was no manual, and so far no one has answered my request for help.  I realize that mechanically inclined people would immediately know what to do, but I am not in that category.  Companies should realize they need to provide really basic instructions for all their users and make no assumptions.  A shorter center spindle was provided with the kit, so I realize that replaces the longer one, but the longer one is, so far, impossible to remove (with pliers or channel-lock wrench).  I don't want to do any damage, but does it take a lot of effort to remove it?

 

Next, does the small bowl replace the large bowl or sit inside it (as is the case with many food processors)?

 

Thanks for any help.

Yes - takes a lot of effort to remove it. Use a long wrench with the greatest torque (I got hubby to do it for me). Small bowl replaces the larger bowl. 

[Jim D.]

10 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Yes - takes a lot of effort to remove it. Use a long wrench with the greatest torque (I got hubby to do it for me). Small bowl replaces the larger bowl. 

 

Thanks for the information.  So how soon can hubby be in Virginia?

[Jim D.]

Just so we don't leave this dilemma unsolved:  After colleting every tool I could borrow without success in removing the center post and collecting the names of some local machine shops, I just spoke with Bhavani to see if there were any hints about removing the center post.  He acknowledged the difficulty and said sometimes the center post gets "welded" to other steel parts when it is initially screwed in, but he had the ultimate solution:  He is sending me the brand-new stainless holders for the micro bowl (I have the plastic ones), so I will not have to remove the center post.  I'm a little disappointed because I wanted to see how much force it eventually took to remove it (just kidding).

[Jim D.]

For the micro-batch accessory for the Premier melanger, the stated minimum is 0.5kg, but I could not find a maximum on the Premier website.  I did locate this statement:  

• This new optional economy-size drum and roller stone set are ideal for recipe testing or small batch sampling as yield is only 1.1 pounds/0.5kg.

It would seem odd if the maximum and minimum were the same (that is a rather tight specification to work with).  Does anyone know what the maximum is?

[jauhe]

I've been poking around the Chocolate Alchemy website and it looks like fun experimenting with different beans and recipes, but I'm curious. For those making their own chocolate, how do your results compare with couverture from the main brands? Does there wind up being a noticeable difference in quality or smoothness or fluidity maybe I saw someone mention?

[gap]

The biggest issue with making bean to bar chocolate at home is getting repeatable taste from your chocolate. You can tweak recipes to get whatever fluidity you need but buying small batches of beans from different suppliers at different times of the year means it's tough to make a consistent tasting chocolate (dark moreso than milk). It's been a few years since I was last doing it, but for someone living in Australia (as I do) it was generally more expensive to make my own chocolate using small melangers than buying in bulk (cost of importing beans and AUD/USD exchange rate).

 

That said, it was fun to do and I learned a lot about chocolate by doing it.

Edited September 23, 2023 by gap (log)

[Douglas K]

As Gap says, getting repeatable results using different beans is impossible. I have made batches from the same beans/year bought at different times with the same (or very close) results, it’s not an equipment or batch size issue, it’s a raw material issue. Making couverture and bean to bar chocolate are two different things. The fun of bean to bar is trying chocolate from different areas/farmers/years, kind of like with wine, and tasting different flavors. I’ve also made bonbons from my own chocolate, and really haven’t seen any issues with the performance of the chocolate, but I am also not a professional, and everything is difficult for me so I wouldn’t notice. 🤣 

[pastrygirl]

As mentioned in another confections thread, Valrhona Orelys has been discontinued.

 

I made a batch attempting to duplicate it a few months ago using India Tree dark muscovado sugar.  That was very molasses-y so I diluted it with an additional 50% Felchlin Edelweiss and came very close to the flavor of the original.  I just finished a new batch using India Tree light muscovado sugar, and it's pretty close without needing to be diluted (though I think the first franken-batch was even closer).  Mine is not as creamy, so it could be worth looking for full fat milk powder.   Though I may go back to version 1 next time, might as well get 3 kg instead of 2 if I have to wash the melanger? 😅

 

Cost-wise, assuming you already have a melanger and your labor is free 🙄 it might even be cheaper than Valrhona.  Yield approx 2.1 kg at approx $21/kg   (Assuming cocoa butter is $30/kg, milk powder was $11.50, muscovado sugar $5.  YMMV)

 

 

800 g cocoa butter

50 g browned butter (optional, especially if you can find full-fat milk powder)

450 g/1 bag India Tree light muscovado sugar

200 g C&H light brown sugar

22 oz/624g/1 bag nonfat dry milk powder

seeds from half a vanilla bean

1/2 teaspoon salt

 

Helps to have everything warm, mix the melted fats and sugar first and get that going, then add the milk gradually over the first hour or 2 so the machine doesn't struggle. 

[Jim D.]

I used pastrygirl's recipe to make a batch of homemade Orelys (and I want to thank her for doing all the work to develop a recipe).  I used the same India Tree dark muscovado, but also used white sugar (as the recipe she gave me called for).  After much searching I found whole milk powder (from King Arthur Flour), so I  omitted the butter.  I had never made any sort of chocolate in the melanger, so was not sure what to expect.  It was very easy.  I put the melted cocoa butter in the melanger, then added the sugar, followed immediately by the milk powder (about 1/4 cup at a time).  The mixture thickened up with the powder, so I used a hair dryer for a little while until everything flowed smoothly.  I had the melanger in a room where I could easily regular the temp, so I managed to get everything quite warm.  Premier melangers has a recipe that is somewhat similar and calls for 3.5 hours of grinding.  I found my "Orelys" was smooth enough before 3 hours.  The taste is close to Valrhona's product, but it could use a little more of the muscovado taste, so next time I would use more muscovado and less white sugar (or maybe use some brown).  I think it is the muscovado that gives Orelys its slightly licorice taste, and I would like to have more of that.  I kept some actual Orelys for future taste comparisons.   In the recipes where I used Orelys (pecan gianduja, cinnamon bun ganache), the chocolate doesn't have to stand on its own, so I am content with something close to Valrhona's product.

 

My calculated price was about $60 for 2.5kg (compared to Valrhona's $87 price for the same amount).  Would I do it again?  Maybe, but given my uses of Orelys, I might be tempted to use Valrhona's Dulcey plus a little molasses powder.  Washing that melanger is not as much fun as one might imagine.

[RanaMN]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:03 AM, Jim D. said:

For the micro-batch accessory for the Premier melanger, the stated minimum is 0.5kg, but I could not find a maximum on the Premier website.  I did locate this statement:  

• This new optional economy-size drum and roller stone set are ideal for recipe testing or small batch sampling as yield is only 1.1 pounds/0.5kg.

It would seem odd if the maximum and minimum were the same (that is a rather tight specification to work with).  Does anyone know what the maximum is?

jim, could you please  do an update post about which model of melanger you have and whether its worth to buy it or not. I am about to buy one and really hesitating. any input would be appreciated:) 

[Jim D.]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:07 AM, RanaMN said:

jim, could you please  do an update post about which model of melanger you have and whether its worth to buy it or not. I am about to buy one and really hesitating. any input would be appreciated:) 

 

I'm very sorry to have missed your question.  I have this model (the stainless steel holders are great).  I don't use mine all that often, but when I do, it does a fantastic job.  I have made pistachio praline paste, almond praline paste, cashew praline paste, and a few others, the most unusual being "Orelys" blond chocolate.  I use quotes because quite suddenly Valrhona quit making its Orelys chocolate.  I have several recipes (many involving pecans) that really depended on it.  Thanks to @pastrygirl's ingenuity in figuring out the proportions of ingredients and her generosity in sharing her recipe, I was able to make a remarkably close clone of Orelys.  The ultimate test: yes, I would buy it again.

[RanaMN]

On 8/15/2024 at 7:08 AM, Jim D. said:

 

I'm very sorry to have missed your question.  I have this model (the stainless steel holders are great).  I don't use mine all that often, but when I do, it does a fantastic job.  I have made pistachio praline paste, almond praline paste, cashew praline paste, and a few others, the most unusual being "Orelys" blond chocolate.  I use quotes because quite suddenly Valrhona quit making its Orelys chocolate.  I have several recipes (many involving pecans) that really depended on it.  Thanks to @pastrygirl's ingenuity in figuring out the proportions of ingredients and her generosity in sharing her recipe, I was able to make a remarkably close clone of Orelys.  The ultimate test: yes, I would buy it again.

No worries. I actually ended up ordering one last week and I just received mine today! I just cleaned it and will start to experiment. I mainly wanted it it to make hazelnut praline. As soon as I received it I wished I bought the 10pound one it's small. But the 10 pound tilting one seemed an awkward shape to store in my basement on the shelf. Also I can't figure out the lit. I will attach a picture. Is that space normal? In Kerry's picture it's seems like there shouldn't be any space.  Also whats the red plastic lid for? Anybody knows? 

Edited August 16 by RanaMN
Forgot to ask about the red lid (log)

[Jim D.]

13 hours ago, RanaMN said:

No worries. I actually ended up ordering one last week and I just received mine today! I just cleaned it and will start to experiment. I mainly wanted it it to make hazelnut praline. As soon as I received it I wished I bought the 10pound one it's small. But the 10 pound tilting one seemed an awkward shape to store in my basement on the shelf. Also I can't figure out the lit. I will attach a picture. Is that space normal? In Kerry's picture it's seems like there shouldn't be any space.  Also whats the red plastic lid for? Anybody knows? 

 

I don't have the red lid.  And yes, the lid should be on top of the rotating bowl (with a slight space between bowl and lid).  It looks as if the center spindle is too long.  I had a similar issue. In the company's transition from the previous model to the stainless one, two center rods existed, and the instructions said to remove the shorter one and replace it with the longer.  After spending a huge amount of time trying to do that, I learned that the machine had shipped with the longer one already in place (as the company improves the melangers, its literature does not always keep up with the changes).   I think you need to contact the company and talk to someone.  They are very helpful on the phone and seemed genuinely concerned that the customer have a good experience with the melanger.  I even got a callback on a weekend.

[RanaMN]

On 3/6/2023 at 7:28 PM, Jim D. said:

My initial use of the melanger has gone mostly well.  I'm making a 4Kg batch of almond praline paste.  The melanger is doing very well--not a morsel has flown out of the bowl, even when the amount was small at the beginning.  I "pre-ground" the almonds in a food processor until they were fine and barely beginning to exude their oil.  Then I made the caramel, and therein was the issue.  The caramel was going well until near the end, when the sugar began to crystallize--which leads to that horrible sinking feeling, "I know where this is going to end."  So I added some water and began again.  The same thing happened a second time, and then a third time.  Now a sensible person would have thrown out that 1.6Kg of sugar and started over, but being sensible is not always a virtue of mine (after all, I do make chocolates).  The fourth time I divided the caramel in half and melted each half by itself, using a smaller pot.  This time it worked.  I have no idea what went wrong earlier.  The humidity today is around 30%, and I followed the same procedure I always do (I prefer a wet caramel).  In any event, I pre-ground the caramel in my old food processor (the sides of the bowl were already scratched from grinding caramel, so I used it), then added the caramel slowly to the melanger, along with some sea salt, and so far so good.  It tastes great, needs some more grinding.

Jim, when making almond praline, do you use almonds with skin on? Also do you add any flavorings? I made almond praline  yesterday with blanched almonds and the end product didn't taste like almonds at all. It tasted like a nut paste with caramel notes but you couldn't tell what nut it is. ( I did roast the blanched almonds until golden or a bit more).  I caramelized the sugar as well. Thanks! 

Edited August 18 by RanaMN
Spelling (log)

[Jim D.]

45 minutes ago, RanaMN said:

Jim, when making almond praline, do you use almonds with skin on? Also do you add any flavorings? I made almond praline  yesterday with blanched almonds and the end product didn't taste like almonds at all. It tasted like a nut paste with caramel notes but you couldn't tell what nut it is. ( I did roast the blanched almonds until golden or a bit more).  I caramelized the sugar as well. Thanks! 

 

I had exactly the same experience the first time I made almond praline paste--very little almond taste.  I use blanched almonds, and I toast them.  I was quite disappointed until I accepted that almonds need a little help.  I had the same reaction to macadamias and cashews, but those nuts don't offer the same solution I found for almond.  I discovered a bitter almond oil, and I add that to my finished paste.  Your taste will determine how much, but the taste does intensify a little with time.  Amazon link.

 

What was your process with caramelizing the sugar?  I assume you did it separately from the nuts.  I had some difficulty with the caramel getting gummy because of humidity.  Eventually (and it took quite some time) the melanger ground up the caramel and the gumminess disappeared.  Since you said you made almond paste, I assume you figured out the problem with the center rod.  What was the issue?

[RanaMN]

On 8/18/2024 at 10:01 AM, Jim D. said:

 

I had exactly the same experience the first time I made almond praline paste--very little almond taste.  I use blanched almonds, and I toast them.  I was quite disappointed until I accepted that almonds need a little help.  I had the same reaction to macadamias and cashews, but those nuts don't offer the same solution I found for almond.  I discovered a bitter almond oil, and I add that to my finished paste.  Your taste will determine how much, but the taste does intensify a little with time.  Amazon link.

 

What was your process with caramelizing the sugar?  I assume you did it separately from the nuts.  I had some difficulty with the caramel getting gummy because of humidity.  Eventually (and it took quite some time) the melanger ground up the caramel and the gumminess disappeared.  Since you said you made almond paste, I assume you figured out the problem with the center rod.  What was the issue?

I caramelized the sugar to 185C separately. I did not have a gumminess problem with it. I have not figured out the center rod issue yet I am going to call the company tomorrow, as it is now it just works fine but there is that gap between the lid and the bowl and I did get some splatters however I only had 1kg of stuff there ( somewhere I read the minimum was %40) so that might have added to the splatter issue. Not really sure what the issue is with the lid but the machine works just fine. Thank you so much for the link, I am going to order that. This brand takes me back to my childhood, my mom always ordered that from Germany for lemon peel oil. 

Edited August 22 by RanaMN
spelling (log)

[Jim D.]

36 minutes ago, RanaMN said:

I caramelized the sugar to 185C separately. I did not have a gumminess problem with it. I have not figured out the center rod issue yet I am going to call the company tomorrow, as it is now it just works fine but there is that gap between the lid and the bowl and I did get some splatters however I only had 1kg of stuff there ( somewhere I read the minimum was %40) so that might have added to the splatter issue. Not really sure what the issue is with the lid but the machine works just fine. Thank you so much for the link, I am going to order that. This brand takes me back to my childhood, my mom always ordered that from Germany for lemon peel oil.  Excellent brand.

 

If you have the 10-lb. tilting melanger, the maximum/minimum numbers are:

 

1. Minimum capacity 3lbs/1.3kg
2. Maximum capacity 10lbs/4.5kg

For small amounts, the micro accessory is recommended, as the large version does not work well with a small quantity.  There is a splash guard (did you install that?).  From others' reports I expected splashing, but so far I have not had any splashing at all.

[RanaMN]

19 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

If you have the 10-lb. tilting melanger, the maximum/minimum numbers are:

 

1. Minimum capacity 3lbs/1.3kg
2. Maximum capacity 10lbs/4.5kg

For small amounts, the micro accessory is recommended, as the large version does not work well with a small quantity.  There is a splash guard (did you install that?).  From others' reports I expected splashing, but so far I have not had any splashing at all.

I have the 8lb one which tells me 1 kg was plenty for that. I didn't buy the small because all I want to make in the melanger is mainly almond and hazelnut praline, and flavor some couverture with coffee and maybe freeze-dried fruit I would think pretty "safe" recipes but haven't tried them yet. Did you try flavoring couverture in there? If yes what was your experience? ( I know people have made flavored chocolates from scratch but haven't seen anyone just flavoring couverture in the thread yet). 

Edited August 18 by RanaMN
spelling (log)

[RanaMN]

2 minutes ago, RanaMN said:

I have the 8lb one which tells me 1 kg was plenty for that. I didn't buy the small  Becuase all I want to make in the melanger is mainly almond and hazelnut praline and maybe   flavor some couvertures with coffee and maybe freeze dried fruit I would think pretty "safe" recipes but haven't tried them yet. Did you try flavoring couvertures in there? If yes what was your experience.  ( I know people have made flavored chocolates from scratch but haven't seen anyone just flavoring couverture in the thread yet). 

 

Edited August 18 by RanaMN
Spelling (log)

[Jim D.]

For the 8-lb. machine, the specs are:

 

1. Minimum capacity 2.5lbs/1kg
2. Maximum capacity 8lbs/3.5kg

No, I haven't tried flavored couvertures (you mean something like Valrhona's passion fruit, raspberry, etc.?).  Given today's prices, making your own would almost certainly be less expensive--especially if you don't start with a Valrhona couverture!   My experience with some of the Valrhona "Inspiration" line suggests a light touch with the flavoring is important.  I have "diluted" both the Framboise and Fraise with a substantial amount of white to get a flavor I liked, but the strawberry in particular is excellent.

[Kerry Beal]

7 hours ago, RanaMN said:

Jim, when making almond praline, do you use almonds with skin on? Also do you add any flavorings? I made almond praline  yesterday with blanched almonds and the end product didn't taste like almonds at all. It tasted like a nut paste with caramel notes but you couldn't tell what nut it is. ( I did roast the blanched almonds until golden or a bit more).  I caramelized the sugar as well. Thanks! 

I add a bit of bitter almond oil - only way to get the flavour besides adding a few bitter almonds. 

[Rajala]

I was inspired by a recent visit to a restaurant and tried to make a sunflower seed praliné just now. And I learned the hard way that too much heat will cause problem. I ran it for too long in my thermomix (which got up to 70°C by just friction), and the sugar completely changed structure and got all thready.  

 

I just recently realized that you save quite a lot of time by make your praline/nut paste in a mixer before adding it to your melanger.

[Jim D.]

40 minutes ago, Rajala said:

II just recently realized that you save quite a lot of time by make your praline/nut paste in a mixer before adding it to your melanger.

 

That's what melangers.com recommends; I think most people use a food processor.  The farther along you go toward a liquid, the easier the melanger will be, but, of course, after a while you might ask the point of having a melanger.  In the case of almonds, I process them until a little liquid appears, then let the melanger do the rest.  

[Rajala]

11 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

That's what melangers.com recommends; I think most people use a food processor.  The farther along you go toward a liquid, the easier the melanger will be, but, of course, after a while you might ask the point of having a melanger.  In the case of almonds, I process them until a little liquid appears, then let the melanger do the rest.  

 

Is there a machine that can give you something perfectly smooth except a melanger? Never seen a mixer that can do that. Even a robot coupe can't from what I remember. But yeah, new test tomorrow - I'll make sure to not run the thermomix for too long this time. 😆

[curls]

4 hours ago, Rajala said:

 

Is there a machine that can give you something perfectly smooth except a melanger? Never seen a mixer that can do that. Even a robot coupe can't from what I remember. But yeah, new test tomorrow - I'll make sure to not run the thermomix for too long this time. 😆

Yes, apparently a ball mill refiner will also make smooth nut pastes (and other things).

https://www.selmi-group.com/micron50-spreadable-creams-refiner.html