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Cross-contamination.....

Martin Fisher

By Martin Fisher
in Kitchen Consumer

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Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
Posted

The thermometer hygiene thread prompted this thread.

While it's impossible to totally avoid cross-contamination and food safety mistakes in the kitchen, it seems to me good practice to not take un-necessary risks.

 

dcarch asked.....

 

  Quote

If you eat out, how clean do you think they sanitize every kitchen item in preparation of food stuff? 

Expand  

 

Hard to tell, even the 'pros' are prone to some serious errors.

Take this Thomas Keller video as an example:

 

How much poor practice do you see?

I see several things.

I'll list them shortly.

 

  • Like 1

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

It can't be denied when caught on video.

 

Generally considered bad practice, especially when working with raw chicken:

1. No gloves. (Especially with a bandage on a finger.)

2. Letting the chicken come to room temperature (Questionable.)

3. Peppermill handled with hands that handled raw chicken.

4. Peppermill in contact with chicken.

5. Appears he contaminates the end of the butcher twine.

6. Contaminates the outside of the salt bowl.

7. Wipes hands on a side towel after handling raw chicken.

 

It's unclear whether he washed his hands before touching the oven door handle or carving the chicken....I sure hope so!

 

Yes, yes I have OCD!!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)
  • Like 7

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted

Well, it's gonna be a difficult position for anyone to oppose all precautions, but I'd say, for instance, that 'No Gloves' is not a dis-qualifier.   I've watched many vaunted chefs prepare chicken and almost never (and that's being generous) see gloves.

 

It's about the totality of the thing.  What if I never wash the probe of my thermapen, but always store it buried in salt?

 

What if I don't get my chicken heated to 165F, but keep it at 145F for three hours?

 

Food safety is a game of probabilities.  You can't just look for one 'gotchya' (unless it's massive).

btbyrd

btbyrd

Posted
Posted

That crap drives me crazy too. I'm not really that OCD, but it drives me up the wall when famous chefs (who know better) end up doing those things on cooking demos or on television. The pepper grinder and the salt well seem to get the brunt of it. I also hate it when chefs/personalities make a point of washing their hands after handling raw meat, but turn the water on by grabbing the handle/lever with their filthy hands. AND THEN THEY GRAB IT AGAIN AFTER THEY WASH IT! You know they never wash that handle...

  • Like 7

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Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 9:34 PM, IndyRob said:

What if...

Expand  

 

Yeah, what if!!! LOL

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

IMHO, he should be wearing gloves when he's got a bandage on his finger...at the very least, it's a respectful courtesy.

  • Like 2

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 9:34 PM, IndyRob said:

Food safety is a game of probabilities. 

Expand  

 

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 

@nathanmsummed it up brilliantly....

"Food safety is a statistical phenomenon - if food is very contaminated you can get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can get away with a lot. That is, until you find some contamination."

 

 

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/28/2016 at 9:55 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 

@nathanmsummed it up brilliantly....

"Food safety is a statistical phenomenon - if food is very contaminated you can get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can get away with a lot. That is, until you find some contamination."

 

 

Expand  

No, if it were a game of possibilities, nathanm's quote would mean fuck it - we're all doomed.  Nothing we do can ever be right.

It is a statistical phenomenon.  i.e. probabilities.

 

Edited by IndyRob (log)
BeeZee

BeeZee

Posted
Posted

At least I know I'm not the only one cringing when I see raw meat juiced fingers handling the kitchen accessories! I turn on the kitchen faucet with my forearm for that very reason. Lots of hot water and soap during food prep, and I've been known to call DH into the kitchen to push up my sleeves if they slipped down too much.

  • Like 3

"Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast" - Oscar Wilde

IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

  On 10/28/2016 at 9:48 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

Yeah, what if!!! LOL

Expand  

 

As I only used the term 'what if' once in reference to chicken (implied sous vide), I assume you must be LOL'ing at Douglas Baldwin?

 

[Edit] Sorry, I also used 'what if' with the thermapen in the salt thing.  Argue with either.

Edited by IndyRob (log)
Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 9:34 PM, IndyRob said:

Food safety is a game of probabilities. 

Expand  

 

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 

 

"... if food is very contaminated you can [possibly] get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can [possibly] get away with a lot."

 

 

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

Anna N

Anna N

Posted
Posted

If I had to make a risk assessment every time I walked into my kitchen I would starve to death: that's not a possibility or even a probability, that's reality. 

  • Like 2

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

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IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted (edited)
  Quote

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 "... if food is very contaminated you can [possibly] get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can [possibly] get away with a lot."
 

 

Expand  

 

Well, inserting your own words into someone else's quote is a novel way of making an argument,

 

I don't think nathanm would agree with your reasoning.

 

Edited by IndyRob (log)
Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

I don't see it as any more of a chore than a risk assessment while crossing a street.

It sort of becomes automatic after while.

Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)
  • Like 1

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:03 PM, IndyRob said:

Well, inserting your own words into someone else's quote is a novel way of making an argument,

 

I don't think nathanm would agree with your reasoning.

 

Expand  

 

 

He uses the word 'can' and not the word 'will", which leads to think he sees it as a possibility and NOT a probability.

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

dcarch

dcarch

Posted
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:00 PM, Anna N said:

If I had to make a risk assessment every time I walked into my kitchen I would starve to death: that's not a possibility or even a probability, that's reality. 

Expand  

 

In addition to a free dinner, I won a $100 bet once.

A friend dared me to eat a piece of meat after wiping the floor with it. 

 

dcarch

  • Like 2
IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:03 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

I don't see it as anymore more of a chore than a risk assessment while crossing a street.

It sort of becomes automatic after while.

Expand  

 

It's not a risk assessment if in your mind all roads lead to the possibility of death.  Ask the chicken.  He crossed the road ('though no one is sure why)

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

The possibility of death comes with simply living. :)

  • Like 1

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:09 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

 

He uses the word 'can' and not the word 'will", which leads to think he sees it as a possibility and NOT a probability.

Expand  

 

If you and nathanm are ever at a food event and you ask him "Is it possible I will get sick from eating this piece of chicken?" He will say yes.

 

If you ask him if it is probable, he will likely say "No."

 

Make your own choice.

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:17 PM, IndyRob said:

 

If you and nathanm are ever at a food event and you ask him "Is it possible I will get sick from eating this piece of chicken?" He will say yes.

 

If you ask him if it is probable, he will likely say "No."

 

Make your own choice.

Expand  

 

My point, exactly!

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

ElainaA

ElainaA

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/28/2016 at 9:47 PM, btbyrd said:

That crap drives me crazy too. I'm not really that OCD, but it drives me up the wall when famous chefs (who know better) end up doing those things on cooking demos or on television. The pepper grinder and the salt well seem to get the brunt of it. I also hate it when chefs/personalities make a point of washing their hands after handling raw meat, but turn the water on by grabbing the handle/lever with their filthy hands. AND THEN THEY GRAB IT AGAIN AFTER THEY WASH IT! You know they never wash that handle...

Expand  

I have to admit I never thought about this before. I am a plumber's wife. My husband had installed plumbing fixtures in many restaurant kitchens and many doctors' offices. In the doctors' offices there is always a knee lever to activate the faucet so their (possibly contaminated) hands do not touch it. Never in a restaurant kitchen. 

Edited by ElainaA (log)
  • Like 1

If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need. Cicero

But the library must contain cookbooks. Elaina

Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:24 PM, IndyRob said:

So you will serve chicken if you know it's a possibility that someone will get sick?  Or would you never serve Chechens, er, chickens?

Expand  

 

There's a possibility of sickness no matter what is served.

Well, unless one lives and eats in a sterile environment.

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

SusieQ

SusieQ

Posted
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 9:15 PM, DiggingDogFarm said:

It can't be denied when caught on video.

 

Generally considered bad practice, especially when working with raw chicken:

1. No gloves. (Especially with a bandage on a finger.)

2. Letting the chicken come to room temperature (Questionable.)

3. Peppermill handled with hands that handled raw chicken.

4. Peppermill in contact with chicken.

5. Appears he contaminates the end of the butcher twine.

6. Contaminates the outside of the salt bowl.

7. Wipes hands on a side towel after handling raw chicken.

 

It's unclear whether he washed his hands before touching the oven door handle or carving the chicken....I sure hope so!

 

Yes, yes I have OCD!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

You don't have to have OCD to notice every single one of these. Really shocking that such a super-professional would demonstrate TO THE PUBLIC such poor practices.

  • Like 3
Martin Fisher

Martin Fisher

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
  On 10/28/2016 at 11:10 PM, dcarch said:

 

In addition to a free dinner, I won a $100 bet once.

A friend dared me to eat a piece of meat after wiping the floor with it. 

 

dcarch

Expand  

 

That's gross! O.o

  • Like 1

~Martin :)

I just don't want to look back and think "I could have eaten that."

Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it!

 

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