Cross-contamination.....

[Martin Fisher]

The thermometer hygiene thread prompted this thread.

While it's impossible to totally avoid cross-contamination and food safety mistakes in the kitchen, it seems to me good practice to not take un-necessary risks.

 

dcarch asked.....

 

Quote

If you eat out, how clean do you think they sanitize every kitchen item in preparation of food stuff? 

 

Hard to tell, even the 'pros' are prone to some serious errors.

Take this Thomas Keller video as an example:

 

How much poor practice do you see?

I see several things.

I'll list them shortly.

 

[Martin Fisher]

It can't be denied when caught on video.

 

Generally considered bad practice, especially when working with raw chicken:

1. No gloves. (Especially with a bandage on a finger.)

2. Letting the chicken come to room temperature (Questionable.)

3. Peppermill handled with hands that handled raw chicken.

4. Peppermill in contact with chicken.

5. Appears he contaminates the end of the butcher twine.

6. Contaminates the outside of the salt bowl.

7. Wipes hands on a side towel after handling raw chicken.

 

It's unclear whether he washed his hands before touching the oven door handle or carving the chicken....I sure hope so!

 

Yes, yes I have OCD!!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[IndyRob]

Well, it's gonna be a difficult position for anyone to oppose all precautions, but I'd say, for instance, that 'No Gloves' is not a dis-qualifier.   I've watched many vaunted chefs prepare chicken and almost never (and that's being generous) see gloves.

 

It's about the totality of the thing.  What if I never wash the probe of my thermapen, but always store it buried in salt?

 

What if I don't get my chicken heated to 165F, but keep it at 145F for three hours?

 

Food safety is a game of probabilities.  You can't just look for one 'gotchya' (unless it's massive).

[btbyrd]

That crap drives me crazy too. I'm not really that OCD, but it drives me up the wall when famous chefs (who know better) end up doing those things on cooking demos or on television. The pepper grinder and the salt well seem to get the brunt of it. I also hate it when chefs/personalities make a point of washing their hands after handling raw meat, but turn the water on by grabbing the handle/lever with their filthy hands. AND THEN THEY GRAB IT AGAIN AFTER THEY WASH IT! You know they never wash that handle...

[Martin Fisher]

14 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

What if...

 

Yeah, what if!!! LOL

[Martin Fisher]

IMHO, he should be wearing gloves when he's got a bandage on his finger...at the very least, it's a respectful courtesy.

[Martin Fisher]

17 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

Food safety is a game of probabilities. 

 

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 

@nathanmsummed it up brilliantly....

"Food safety is a statistical phenomenon - if food is very contaminated you can get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can get away with a lot. That is, until you find some contamination."

 

 

[IndyRob]

22 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 

@nathanmsummed it up brilliantly....

"Food safety is a statistical phenomenon - if food is very contaminated you can get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can get away with a lot. That is, until you find some contamination."

 

 

No, if it were a game of possibilities, nathanm's quote would mean fuck it - we're all doomed.  Nothing we do can ever be right.

It is a statistical phenomenon.  i.e. probabilities.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[BeeZee]

At least I know I'm not the only one cringing when I see raw meat juiced fingers handling the kitchen accessories! I turn on the kitchen faucet with my forearm for that very reason. Lots of hot water and soap during food prep, and I've been known to call DH into the kitchen to push up my sleeves if they slipped down too much.

[IndyRob]

 

58 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

Yeah, what if!!! LOL

 

As I only used the term 'what if' once in reference to chicken (implied sous vide), I assume you must be LOL'ing at Douglas Baldwin?

 

[Edit] Sorry, I also used 'what if' with the thermapen in the salt thing.  Argue with either.

Edited October 28, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[Martin Fisher]

1 hour ago, IndyRob said:

Food safety is a game of probabilities. 

 

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 

 

"... if food is very contaminated you can [possibly] get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can [possibly] get away with a lot."

 

 

[Anna N]

If I had to make a risk assessment every time I walked into my kitchen I would starve to death: that's not a possibility or even a probability, that's reality. 

[IndyRob]

Quote

I'd call it a game of possibilities.

 "... if food is very contaminated you can [possibly] get sick even if you follow the guidelines; if it is not contaminated with pathogens then you can [possibly] get away with a lot."
 

 

 

Well, inserting your own words into someone else's quote is a novel way of making an argument,

 

I don't think nathanm would agree with your reasoning.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[Martin Fisher]

I don't see it as any more of a chore than a risk assessment while crossing a street.

It sort of becomes automatic after while.

Edited October 28, 2016 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[Martin Fisher]

2 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

Well, inserting your own words into someone else's quote is a novel way of making an argument,

 

I don't think nathanm would agree with your reasoning.

 

 

 

He uses the word 'can' and not the word 'will", which leads to think he sees it as a possibility and NOT a probability.

[dcarch]

5 minutes ago, Anna N said:

If I had to make a risk assessment every time I walked into my kitchen I would starve to death: that's not a possibility or even a probability, that's reality. 

 

In addition to a free dinner, I won a $100 bet once.

A friend dared me to eat a piece of meat after wiping the floor with it. 

 

dcarch

[IndyRob]

5 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

I don't see it as anymore more of a chore than a risk assessment while crossing a street.

It sort of becomes automatic after while.

 

It's not a risk assessment if in your mind all roads lead to the possibility of death.  Ask the chicken.  He crossed the road ('though no one is sure why)

[Martin Fisher]

The possibility of death comes with simply living. 

[IndyRob]

3 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

 

He uses the word 'can' and not the word 'will", which leads to think he sees it as a possibility and NOT a probability.

 

If you and nathanm are ever at a food event and you ask him "Is it possible I will get sick from eating this piece of chicken?" He will say yes.

 

If you ask him if it is probable, he will likely say "No."

 

Make your own choice.

[Martin Fisher]

1 minute ago, IndyRob said:

 

If you and nathanm are ever at a food event and you ask him "Is it possible I will get sick from eating this piece of chicken?" He will say yes.

 

If you ask him if it is probable, he will likely say "No."

 

Make your own choice.

 

My point, exactly!

[IndyRob]

3 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

My point, exactly!

So you will serve chicken if you know it's a possibility that someone will get sick?  Or would you never serve Chechens, er, chickens?

[ElainaA]

1 hour ago, btbyrd said:

That crap drives me crazy too. I'm not really that OCD, but it drives me up the wall when famous chefs (who know better) end up doing those things on cooking demos or on television. The pepper grinder and the salt well seem to get the brunt of it. I also hate it when chefs/personalities make a point of washing their hands after handling raw meat, but turn the water on by grabbing the handle/lever with their filthy hands. AND THEN THEY GRAB IT AGAIN AFTER THEY WASH IT! You know they never wash that handle...

I have to admit I never thought about this before. I am a plumber's wife. My husband had installed plumbing fixtures in many restaurant kitchens and many doctors' offices. In the doctors' offices there is always a knee lever to activate the faucet so their (possibly contaminated) hands do not touch it. Never in a restaurant kitchen. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by ElainaA (log)

[Martin Fisher]

2 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

So you will serve chicken if you know it's a possibility that someone will get sick?  Or would you never serve Chechens, er, chickens?

 

There's a possibility of sickness no matter what is served.

Well, unless one lives and eats in a sterile environment.

[SusieQ]

2 hours ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

It can't be denied when caught on video.

 

Generally considered bad practice, especially when working with raw chicken:

1. No gloves. (Especially with a bandage on a finger.)

2. Letting the chicken come to room temperature (Questionable.)

3. Peppermill handled with hands that handled raw chicken.

4. Peppermill in contact with chicken.

5. Appears he contaminates the end of the butcher twine.

6. Contaminates the outside of the salt bowl.

7. Wipes hands on a side towel after handling raw chicken.

 

It's unclear whether he washed his hands before touching the oven door handle or carving the chicken....I sure hope so!

 

Yes, yes I have OCD!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

You don't have to have OCD to notice every single one of these. Really shocking that such a super-professional would demonstrate TO THE PUBLIC such poor practices.

[Martin Fisher]

33 minutes ago, dcarch said:

 

In addition to a free dinner, I won a $100 bet once.

A friend dared me to eat a piece of meat after wiping the floor with it. 

 

dcarch

 

That's gross!