Cooking Dried Beans

[FoodZealot]

Thanks to all for the great info and discussion.

I just wanted to bring up that in her book Cookwise, Shirley Corriher (I hope I made the eG link correctly) discusses beans quite a bit. I'll have to refresh my memory, but one of the things I got out of that chapter is that sugar makes it possible for beans to withstand long cooking without breaking down into mush, by keeping the skins intact. Although lots of bbq folks doctor up canned beans, when making bbq beans or Boston baked beans from scratch, its important not to add the sweeteners until the beans are already tender.

edit: spelling

Edited March 25, 2004 by FoodZealot (log)

[runnerbean]

Sugar, salt, and anything acidic (lemon, vinegar, and tomatoes) will all toughen beans, so that it is more difficult to get them to absorb liquid, so that when making something like Boston baked beans, it's important to cook the beans till they're mostly tender before adding the molasses or other sweetener. As far as salt, some people add it add the beginning of cooking, or when using a pressure-cooker (so they don't turn to mush). If the beans are well-soaked or are new crop, the salt can safely be added from the beginning. Older beans need more care. Also, if you live in an area with hard (mineral heavy, acidic) water, you may need to add just a pinch of baking soda to ]neutralize the acid, especially when cooking chickpeas--notoriously hard to cook. Bean Appetit!

[ExtraMSG]

Russ, I was just reading back through getting ready to make some black and pinto beans and I had a question: I generally sautee some onions and garlic in lard or bacon fat and then add the beans and cool water, bring to a light boil, and then toss into the oven to cook. You add boiling water to pot, though, according to your post. Is there an advantage to your method over mine?

Mine just seems easier than having to bring water separately to a boil. In general when I simmer something I like to bring to a simmer starting with cold water because I think it helps the eveness of cooking and absorption of flavors. But this is usually with things like chicken or potatoes that cook much quicker and can absorb flavors in that early period. It may not matter with beans.

Sugar, salt, and anything acidic (lemon, vinegar, and tomatoes) will all toughen beans, so that it is more difficult to get them to absorb liquid, so that when making something like Boston baked beans, it's important to cook the beans till they're mostly tender before adding the molasses or other sweetener. As far as salt, some people add it add the beginning of cooking, or when using a pressure-cooker (so they don't turn to mush).

runnerbean, I think if you look back through this thread, the salt thing has been pretty thoroughly debunked. McGee and Cook's Illustrated both back up Russ and others on the salt point.

Oh, and I've found that it makes no difference with the amount of flatulence w/traditional stovetop vs. pressure cooker. I have not tried the oven method, though I may give it a go next weekend.

Can you explain your method for testing this?

[runnerbean]

I think that one of the things that has happened is that the beans we are getting these days are of better quality (and fresher) than those available 5 or 10 years ago. In researching for the new edition of my book, The Bean Bible, to be called "Beans", I have been amazed at the differences the last five years have made. All kinds of sources on the internet for heirloom beans, Spanish, Latin American, and Italian heirlooms, Indian legumes, and specialty varieties... all kinds of chefs using legumes on their menus, articles in magazines and books. In general, beans (and other legumes) have become so much more mainstream. I'm thrilled! When my book first came out in 2000, people said to me, "Why did you write a book about beans; everyone hates beans." Pretty discouraging. The picture is so different now. Witness this topic in e-gullet.

As far as salt, I agree that it is good to add salt from the beginning. Even if I don't add it at first, I will always add it to the pot while there is still enough liquid to dissolve the salt and disperse it into the beans. Salting after they are cooked means that the salt never really penetrates to the center and beans without salt (and other seasonings) can be really bland.

Re soaking and blanching, all I know is that in testing more than 200 bean recipes if we did the soaking and blanching, we had little to no gas, if we didn't the results were far different. Soaking and blanching is done in Mediterranean countries, but not in Mexico. Different strokes...and maybe different beans.

[devlin]

I'm just now here making a bad attempt at absorbing roughly three months worth of beans tutorials, so forgive me if I sound addlepated . I'm one of those very annoying people who has assumed for many years now that beans must be soaked both in order to mitigate the gas factor and to speed up the cook time. And since I've never been a huge fan of beans generally, I've never really bothered to check my own biases. But here's a question. On occasion I cook a thing from one of Madhur Jaffrey's books, a gorgeous chickpea, potato, tomato and onion affair, and I've always soaked the chickpeas. Of course one day I neglected them, let them sit an extra day, it was summer, I think, and when I uncovered them they were foamy and slightly fermenting. They smelled pretty godawful, but I couldn't abide the thought of throwing them out so I rinsed and cooked the thing as usual. Frankly the dish tasted better than it ever had. And invariably when I serve the thing to unsuspecting guests, they are wowed by it. Okay, two questions. One, is it okay to ferment beans or peas, and, two, am I endangering my guests? So far we're all still thriving, and I've been doing this for a good many years now.

Edited April 3, 2004 by devlin (log)

[mnebergall]

mnebergall ... what varieties did you order?

So far, I've tried three different types from them: Tiger Eye, Eye of the Goat, and Rio Zappe. They've all had different cooking times and the end product is different too. Tiger Eye has turned out to be quite creamy ... much like a pinto bean. Eye of the Goat and Rio Zappe are firmer; I quite enjoyed the Rio Zappe.

Bean Bag apparantly has experienced some unexpected publicity. They were featured in a Sacremento newspaper and the article was republished in 31 other papers around the country. They are swamped with orders and are behind in their shipping.

Spelling edit.

Edited April 3, 2004 by mnebergall (log)

[ExtraMSG]

You forgot to provide a link to your book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai.../egulletcom-20/

[fifi]

Ok... Here is the scene...

Cleaning out the fridge preparing to be gone a few weeks. There is one last container of the pintos I cooked using the parsons method. Remember that I added ancho paste at the end.

Hmm... So that's where that little container of excellent bacon fat ended up.

My truly beautiful shiny black cast iron skillet is sitting on the stove. I had dragged it out to measure it for purposes of a discussion of the proper size skillet for my cornbread recipe.

Gee... I have been thinking of those Mexican breakfast buffets ever since some vindictive person started that breakfast thread.

(You see where we are going here?)

Somehow, a couple of tablespoons of bacon fat made its way into the frying pan. The stove was turned on to medium heat. The beans found their way under my masher.

Plop, sizzle. Pretty soon I had the best batch of refried beans I have had in years. I like mine roughly mashed... not the runny goo you get so often. I let the liquid cook off and a little light brown crust form between turnings. When the whole mass comes together like a dough almost, all is ready. I like my refried beans to stand up for themselves, not lay around in a pathetic puddle.

The only thing that could have improved this picture would have been finding some fresh lard of the asiento persuasion in the fridge.

Do try this with leftover beans.

[Richard Kilgore]

Bulk Pinto Bean Alert!

Last week I cooked bulk Pintos from Kroger and they turned out just fine after 1 1/2 hours in the oven.

This week I cooked bulk Pintos from Wal-Mart for 1 1/2, 2 1/2, 3 hours and they were still inedible. Dumped them and the rest of them in the cupboard I had not yet tried to cook.

[fifi]

Sounds like old beans, Richard. Were there any "use by" date clues on the package?

My perfect pintos were generic Kroger brand and they said use by some month in 2005 so I figured they were pretty fresh.

I actually had that happen to me at my sister's house with Camellia Red Beans of all things. Finally, my sister fessed up that the package had been in the cupboard for a couple of years or more (God knows how many more).

[Richard Kilgore]

Bulk Pinto Beans, Linda. By the pound.

[russ parsons]

could well be old beans, i also think it could be hard water. i know from having lived in new mexico that from time to time they would change the water mix or something and even split peas would never soften. frustrating.

[fifi]

Oh... Now I get it. Like you dip them out of a barrel or some other kitschy container.

I have always considered those things as the repository for the beans that were sitting on the shelf in their bags and that the date had expired so we get some kid to open all of the bags and dump them in the barrel.

russ... Typically, our domestic water supply in Houston and Dallas doesn't vary as to hardness. (Chlorine, yes. Sometimes gets really high in the summer.) If pintos cooked perfectly a couple of weeks ago, the water supply wouldn't normally cause Richard's problem.

Just as a general question, what does water hardness do to beans? I have cooked them in my usual way in all kinds of water. In Hammond LA, the municipal water is so soft you barely need to touch the bar of soap. My well at my house there was not so soft but delicious like a spring water and about medium hardness. Bellaire TX is pretty hard well water. I haven't changed my methods over the years and the beans don't seem to change.

[Richard Kilgore]

As I noted, they were both bulk beans, but one batch came from Kroger and turned out great, and one came from Wal-Mart and turned out not at all. Week apart. The water here tastes terrible, so I always filter cooking water. So I assume Wal-Mart got a deal on some old, old beans.

And Kroger uses a kitschy barrel, Wal-Mart just opens up the huge bulk boxes. Back to Kroger.

[naguere]

and what about soaking chick peas with baking soda? has this been discredited?

Yesterday i soaked 500gr of dried pease, using two of the white tablets provided (baking soda).

Thismorning drained and rinsed them then cooked them with the other two tablets.

There is no other way.

I don't know about other pulses , but mushy pease would not be the same without this process

[fifi]

*Bump*

It is my moral duty to report on two bean disappointments.

I was feeling frisky, bean-wise, and bought two bags of unusual beans, Goya brand. Goya is my absolute go-to brand for canned beans and I like their products in general.

These did not go well. They didn't cook up like I would have liked. They both had all of the characteritics of old beans. (No, I don't remember the two varieties. And I don't remember how to decipher the dating code that Goya uses.)

The lesson I take from this: Don't buy weird beans that may not have much turnover unless you know your source. If I get adventurous again, I will check into reliable mail order sources that have a good track record. Or, I will have to travel to California to buy my beans from rancho_gordo.

[tanabutler]

At this very moment, I have a pot of Good Mother Stallard* beans (from Rancho Gordo) a-cooking in the oven, hopefully under the Parsons Method. I couldn't believe how they plumped up: they got wrinkly like they'd been in the bath too long. Like a slow-motion, backwards, time-lapse photography. It's the weirdest thing.

They are very pretty beans. I hope they taste good. I am hoping that my inability to grow plants is not going to be combined here with my historic inability to cook beans properly. I feel so much the gringa.

*I'm sorry, but this name is just so odd and evocative. "Good Mother Stallard went to Kaye Ballard, to give the old actress a loan."

[Richard Kilgore]

And I don't remember how to decipher the dating code that Goya uses

It's simple:

1) count the number of beans in the package,

2) add today's date,

3) multiply by the year of your birth,

4) divide by the year of your birth,

5) subtract today's date

6) subtract the number of beans in the package,

7) add today's date

This will invariably give you the day of harvest within five years.

[Richard Kilgore]

I'll be fortunate to get any help after that, but here goes. Does the Parson's method work for Northern White Beans the same as it does for Pintos? I have tried some and they took about 2 hours in the oven. Could be old beans of course.

[fifi]

(You deserve that, Richard)

Seriously, I don't think two hours is too much to ask of the Parson's method. I did do a pot some time ago of a package of Great Northern Whites and they took about that long. They had a date that indicated that they were not old. I think it has to do with the size and the characteristics of the bean. While a good batch of pintos reliably comes off at about an hour and a half, I have had some (navy beans) take less and some take more.

[fifi]

*bump*

I just did a two part experiment. I wanted to see if Camellia Red Beans, the phenomenal bean dish of South Louisiana, could be reproduced via the "Parson's Method". The other part of the experiment was to see if I could scale down to a half pound of beans. I live alone and don't have a lot of freezer space right now. Here is what I did:

In my new little 2 1/2 quart oval Le Creuset, I sauted a half an onion and two minced garlic cloves in a tablesoon of bacon fat until translucent. I added in a 1/2 pound of sliced andouille and stirred that around a bit. I added the rinsed 1/2 pound of Camellias. These are available here at Kroger. The use date is Aug 2006 so these are probably "new crop" whatever that means. Added 2 cups of water and 1/2 teaspoon salt, and a couple of bay leaves. I brought the whole thing to a boil, put the lid on and into a 250F oven. Here is what happened:

At 30 minutes: Still plenty of liquid. Back in the oven.

At 1 hour: Beans are about half way there. I added 1/2 cup of water.

At 1 1/2 hours: Beans aren't quite there but getting close.

At 2 hours: The beans are really close. I smash some with the back of the wooden spoon as I usually do to thicken the liquid.

At 2 hours 15 minutes: Houston, We have red beans!

These are every bit as good as when I have cooked them for hours in the crock pot. I will warn you that I like my red beans "stand up style". That means that they sit on top of the rice and there is not a lot of juicy stuff. You can always add liquid to get to the texture you want if you like them with more liquid. The salt level was perfect.

With 15 minutes prep for the seasonings, 2 hours and 15 minutes cooking time, I have "all day" red beans in 2 1/2 hours.

YEEE HAAA!

[bloviatrix]

Ooooo, those sound yummy. I recently bought a 3 1/2 qt Le Creuset which will become my "beanpawt" (said w/a Boston accent). Now that it's getting cooler it's time to eat beans again. Yippee!!

[Mottmott]

*Bump*

It is my moral duty to report on two bean disappointments.

I was feeling frisky, bean-wise, and bought two bags of unusual beans, Goya brand. Goya is my absolute go-to brand for canned beans and I like their products in general.

These did not go well. They didn't cook up like I would have liked. They both had all of the characteritics of old beans. (No, I don't remember the two varieties. And I don't remember how to decipher the dating code that Goya uses.)

The lesson I take from this: Don't buy weird beans that may not have much turnover unless you know your source. If I get adventurous again, I will check into reliable mail order sources that have a good track record. Or, I will have to travel to California to buy my beans from rancho_gordo.

←

If you bought their "giant corn" it takes forever for them to cook and even after they've "bloomed" they're really toothy. I especially like adding them to soups because they have a meaty texture.

[fifi]

*bump* (again)

As I was having a nice garbanzo bean salad for lunch, courtesy of this thread, I remembered that there was some discussion here on "old world beans" and that the parsons method may not work. Well, it does. Richard Kilgore took the first shot. Then, I tried it as well, except that I actually timed them.

1/2 pound Goya garbanzos

2 1/2 cups water

1/2 teaspoon salt

Into the 2 1/2 quart Le Creuset

2 1/2 hours later they were perfect.

(What is it about this 2 and 1/2 thing? Is this some cosmic formula? )

[fifi]

I am bumping this up, again, because I have a bean mystery. This has happened twice now.

My normal bean cooking involves using the "Parson's method," but I normally do only a half pound of beans. For some time now, I have done several types of beans in my 2 1/2 quart Le Creuset. Reliably, a half pound of beans, 2 1/2 cups of water and 1/2 teaspoon salt (plus whatever seasonings I am using) yield perfect beans in 2 to 2 1/2 hours in a 250 degrees F oven. I then store the leftover half pound of dried beans in a pint canning jar, the idea being that a well sealed jar will keep them from "aging" better that just sealing up the bag and tossing into the pantry.

The first "mystery" was the last half of a pound of white beans. The first half were done in a little less than 2 hours. This batch took at least an extra 45 minutes and had spotty hard spots that went away after a night's sojourn in the fridge.

The second "mystery" happened this evening. It involved the second half pound of Camellia Red Beans. The first half pound cooked up to creamy wonderfulness in 2 1/4 hours as I recall. This second half pound needed an additional 45 minutes.

What the heck is going on here? There has been, at the most, a couple of months residence in a canning jar between the two preparations, each from the same bag of beans. The oven temperature has not changed according to the resident in-oven thermometer. I will confess that the jars are sitting out on the bar because I think they look cool. But, I can't imagine that exposure to light has anything to do with it. Or does it?

Do any of you have a clue? I am baffled.