NJ ABC rules

[tommy]

we started talking about NJ's ABC laws on the Fink's thread. additionally, there was a thread on BYOB rules. i thought it might be a good idea to have a thread that addresses these different rules.

from the Fink's thread:

Click here for the ABC's faq page regarding "doggy bag" bottles. my question is, does this apply to *every* place that sells wine by virtue of the type of license one must have in order to sell the wine in the first place? or are there exemptions, the existence of which would no doubt be used by the ignorant manager when telling you that you couldn't take your bottle.

it's logical to assume that the ABC rules don't extend to what you do with the bottle after you leave. the fact that you'd take it into your car couldn't possibly be written in to the rules, nor does it seem that they'd want to. i walk to a lot of restaurants.

[Rail Paul]

it's logical to assume that the ABC rules don't extend to what you do with the bottle after you leave.  the fact that you'd take it into your car couldn't possibly be written in to the rules, nor does it seem that they'd want to.  i walk to a lot of restaurants.

tommy -

thanks for the look-up.

I believe the container law as it applies to motor vehicles is in the motor vehicle regs. It used to be in with the dwi section of the codes.

ABC's primary purpose is regulating the distribution and sale (aka - protecting the wholesalers and distributors who pay those fees) of booze. Of course, they're only slightly more vigilant than the regulators who oversee the medical and legal and banking and insurance industries in NJ. You really have to screw up big time to lose your ticket

[Rail Paul]

Topic Merge

I noticed the Ledger's review of Marakecch (?) in Parsippany made reference to the BYO policy. Corkage is $10, IIRC.

Is this legal in NJ? I had thought a BYO couldn't advertise that it is a BYO or charge a corkage fee.

Edited February 3, 2003 by RPerlow (log)

[Rosie]

Where did you read $10? I saw $2 per bottle liquor service. In any case, yes it is illegal. This is the law.

Unless there is a local ordinance prohibiting it, customers of an

unlicensed restaurant may be permitted by the ownership of the

restaurant to bring and consume only wine and beer.

THE RESTAURANT CAN SUPPLY GLASSES, ICE, ETC., BUT

MAY NOT IMPOSE A COVER, CORKAGE OR SERVICE

CHARGE.

Also, under no circumstances may spirituous liquor be permitted.

There may be no advertising whatsoever of the fact that wine or beer

may be permitted. Additionally, the owner may not permit wine or

beer to be consumed during hours in which the sale of these

products is prohibited by licensees in that municipality, nor allow

consumption of beer or wine by persons under the age of 21 years

or by persons who are actually or apparently drunk or intoxicated.

(N.J.S.A. 2A:170-25.21 through 25.23).

[suzilightning]

interesting since one of the latest emails i got from Andres features a no -corkage fee wednesday night - guess i'll have to email for confirmation

[Rosie]

Andre's now has a liquor license so they CAN charge a corkage fee.

[Rosie]

We went to China Chalet in Florham Park. They have a NJ wine license and a sign stating they will charge $5 a bottle corkage fee. Is this legal with a NJ wine license?

[LauraSM]

We went to China Chalet in Florham Park. They have a NJ wine license and a sign stating they will charge $5 a bottle corkage fee.  Is this legal with a NJ wine license?

←

Well, for starters, there is no such thing in NJ as a "wine license" If they are licensed to sell wine, they are licensed to sell any alcoholic beverage- and the regs permit a corkage fee to be charged by a licensee. The licensee can choose to only serve wine and beer, but that is up to them, not a limitation on their license.

The only limited license offered (as to what they can sell) is a warm beer license, which is for retail sale only, not consumption, and they aren't issuing any more of those.

(Lawyer here, with some experience in NJ Liquor law)

[Rosie]

LauraSM--I appreciate your response but am a bit confused. I have been told by restaurateurs that they have a license to sell only NJ wine. It's a special license that is given out to promote NJ wines. They cannot sell "other" wines.

[Phil Ward]

LauraSM--I appreciate your response but am a bit confused. I have been told by restaurateurs that they have a license to sell only NJ wine.  It's a special license that is given out to promote NJ wines. They cannot sell "other" wines.

←

Okay here is the story: They are working with a NJ winery. The law permits, via the farm winery act, a NJ winery to have up to 5 or 6 outside outlets to sell their wines.

Hence you will probably see, in some BYOB restaurants signage reading "we sell NJ wines" and they designate a small space as the "retail outlet". It usually has a lock and key on the door so it becomes legal.

As to corkage in BYOBs I have never experienced it but...

Also, many high profile licensees have begun a BYOB night or allow customers to bring "special" wines with limited or no corkage.

Hope this helps?

Phil

[Rosie]

Thanks Phil. It is illegal to charge corkage in a BYO in NJ. What I am confused about is if it is illegal to charge corkage if you are selling NJ wine?

[rooftop1000]

Monster Sushi in Pompton Lakes (now closed) had a sign about renting a locker there to keep your liquor on site for your dining pleasure...they took over from New Korea and they had a license.....??

I miss New Korea

tracey

[hitmanoo]

Okay here is the story: They are working with a NJ winery. The law permits, via the farm winery act, a NJ winery to have up to 5 or 6  outside outlets to sell their wines.

Hence you will probably see, in some BYOB restaurants signage reading "we sell NJ wines" and they designate a small space as the "retail outlet". It usually has a lock and key on the door so it becomes legal.

As to corkage in BYOBs I have never experienced it but...

Also, many high profile licensees have begun a BYOB night or allow customers to bring "special" wines with limited or no corkage.

Hope this helps?

Phil

←

Thanks Phil. It is illegal to charge corkage in a BYO in NJ. What I am confused about is if it is illegal to charge corkage if you are selling NJ wine?

←

It stands to reason that if these NJ restaurants that are serving as "outlets" for NJ wineries and if there is a designated location under lock and key disignated as the "retail outlet" then these "retail outlets" would be recognized as separate entities from the establishments in which they are housed.

In accordance with such, the restaurant itself would be a BYO and the winery would have no bona fide affiliation with the restaurant.

Further, you'd be buying wine from the winery separately from having dinner at the restaurant. Regardless of where you buy your wine, whether it be at the winery or any other location, the restaurant itself--having no liquor license of its own--would be bound to the policies of BYO. Any corkage fee charged would be illegal.

Just one man's interpretation.

Edited April 28, 2005 by hitmanoo (log)

[markk]

I went to the ABC site, and found the answer to a question I've always been asking - that it IS LEGAL to bring wine to a restaurant in New Jersey with a liquor license.

I've asked at a couple that serve really horrible wine, one a local steak place that serves cheap and wretched reds, and one a Chinese restaurant I like except for the fact that they serve one especially repulsive Chardonnay or an equally bad Pinot Grigio - neither of which goes with Chinese food anyway- and both restaurants recoiled in horror when I asked about bringing wine and paying a corkage fee, and told me "NO! We could lose our license if you do that !!!" And that's not true. I learned that according to the law, they absolutely can let you bring your own wine, and it's totally their call as a business decision.

[Phil Ward]

Okay here is the story: They are working with a NJ winery. The law permits, via the farm winery act, a NJ winery to have up to 5 or 6  outside outlets to sell their wines.

Hence you will probably see, in some BYOB restaurants signage reading "we sell NJ wines" and they designate a small space as the "retail outlet". It usually has a lock and key on the door so it becomes legal.

As to corkage in BYOBs I have never experienced it but...

Also, many high profile licensees have begun a BYOB night or allow customers to bring "special" wines with limited or no corkage.

Hope this helps?

Phil

←

Thanks Phil. It is illegal to charge corkage in a BYO in NJ. What I am confused about is if it is illegal to charge corkage if you are selling NJ wine?

←

It stands to reason that if thse NJ restaurants that are serving as "outlets" for NJ wineries and if there is a designated location under lock and key disignated as the "retail outlet" then these "retail outlets" would be recognized as separate entities from the establishments in which they are housed.

In accordance with such, the restaurant itself would be a BYO and the winery would have no bona fide affiliation with the restaurant.

Further, you'd be buying wine from the winery separately from having dinner at the restaurant. Regardless of where you buy your wine, whether it be at the winery or any other location, the restaurant itself--having no liquor license of its own--would be bound to the policies of BYO. Any corkage fee charged would be illegal.

Just one man's interpretation.

←

I agree with the above intrepretation of the NJ ABC law.

Phil

[WHT]

it's logical to assume that the ABC rules don't extend to what you do with the bottle after you leave. the fact that you'd take it into your car couldn't possibly be written in to the rules, nor does it seem that they'd want to. i walk to a lot of restaurants.

←

[markk]

it's logical to assume that the ABC rules don't extend to what you do with the bottle after you leave. 

They do.

To quote from the ABC Handbook (New Jersey)

"MAY A PATRON TAKE FROM A RESTAURANT AN UNFINISHED PORTION OF A BOTTLE OF WINE

IN AN ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE VERSION OF A “DOGGY BAG?”

"Yes. It is the policy of the State to encourage moderation in the consumption of alcoholic beverages. To permit a diner to take home an unfinished portion of the bottle of wine, rather than consume it all to prevent 'waste' of his purchase, furthers that policy. Thus, an unfinished bottle of wine may be re-corked and the patron can take it with him. Removal of other open containers of alcoholic beverages from the licensed premises, such as a glass of wine, a mixed drink or an opened bottle or can of beer, is still prohibited.

"Licensees should caution patrons using wine “doggy bags” that the wine should be placed in the trunk of the patron’s car while in transit because Motor Vehicle Law prohibits the consumption of alcoholic beverages in a car and the presence of a container with its original seal broken in a motor vehicle (buses, taxi cabs and limousines are excluded) can give rise to a presumption that the unfinished bottle was consumed in the car."

[tommy]

i would argue that the ABC's verbiage on that point is suggestive, rather than authoritative by nature.

Regardless, my initial question was really "does a restaurant have the right to stop you from taking left over wine." They can't say "we can't let you take it because you might put it in your backseat rather than the trunk and the ABC says just that" because that's just ridiculous. Even the ABC's verbiage mentions local laws when touching on that point, rather than its own. i say that you have the right, or at the very least it's not against the law to take your left over. and by extension, i don't think the server has a say in it.