Chamber Vacuum Sealers, 2011–2014

[Nowayout]

If it is between the VP-210 and the VP-215 and the difference is only $90, I would get the VP-215 hands down! The only difference is the vac pump, an oil rotary pump in the VP-215 vs a dry piston pump in the VP-210. You will need to change the oil in the VP-215, which isn't really a big deal. It only takes a small amount (approx 3 ounces) and it recommends 60 hours between changes (25 hours on first change). It isn't the renowned Busch rotary pump, but is still supposed to be a great unit. Unless you are doing this commercially, 60 hours is quite a lot of vacuuming, so the oil changes could be every 6 months or so!

You will generally always get a better vacuum in an oil lubricated pump, which you may or may not need. For sous vide the slightly less vac of a piston pump should be adequate, but you may want higher vacuum for a few things. They will vacuum faster, pull higher vac, run cooler and last much longer than a dry piston driven pump. The should be kept upright though and the oil should always be removed for shipping.

My goal is still something with a Busch pump, but the VP-215 is a nice unit at a decent price.

Good Luck!

[Robert Jueneman]

FWIW, I still have a MVS-31X that I would like to sell, having upgraded to the MVS-35X with the allegedly better pump. Having said that, I tend to use the 31X more for casual use applications, just because the 35X with its label mechanism is just a bit of a pain to select.

If Chris gets rolled eyes from his friends, imagine what I get with TWO chamber vacuums, a Braun ultrasonic bath, and an Anti-Griddle, all on one end of the counter kitchen island!

If someone is interested in the MVS-31X, contact me privately.

[Martin Fisher]

The VP-215 has an oil pump. Better but more maintenance. (It's on my short list along with the MiniPack-MVS-20 which is more expensive.)

If it is between the VP-210 and the VP-215 and the difference is only $90, I would get the VP-215 hands down! The only difference is the vac pump, an oil rotary pump in the VP-215 vs a dry piston pump in the VP-210. You will need to change the oil in the VP-215, which isn't really a big deal. It only takes a small amount (approx 3 ounces) and it recommends 60 hours between changes (25 hours on first change). It isn't the renowned Busch rotary pump, but is still supposed to be a great unit. Unless you are doing this commercially, 60 hours is quite a lot of vacuuming, so the oil changes could be every 6 months or so!

You will generally always get a better vacuum in an oil lubricated pump, which you may or may not need. For sous vide the slightly less vac of a piston pump should be adequate, but you may want higher vacuum for a few things. They will vacuum faster, pull higher vac, run cooler and last much longer than a dry piston driven pump. The should be kept upright though and the oil should always be removed for shipping.

My goal is still something with a Busch pump, but the VP-215 is a nice unit at a decent price.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the heads-up on the pumps!

~Martin

[Ian Tuck]

I couldn't seem to find any information on whether the VP210 and 215 have a port for sealing containers, like the VP-112 does. Do they? If not, are the chambers of the 210/215 big enough to hold the containers within to seal them? (I think I saw someone say that this works with a 60-70% vacuum before the containers collapse).

[Unpopular Poet]

I don't think there is a port on either the VP210 or VP215 -- one other question -- has anyone had any luck using these as an external vacuum sealer by using a foodsaver bag outside of the chamber? I have seen the minipack used, but never the VP210/VP215. I have decided that I am going to create a sous vide station in my basement. Probably best to hide some of this stuff from people who don't understand it (not my wife, of course -- she's down with it all). Its also why I keep my wine at the office

[samuelpeter]

Hey guys,

I'd guess that I'm not the only one that's been in search of a reasonable chamber vacuum for quite a period of time. I've dug through every dark corner of the internet and have come up feeling empty handed. I've looked for real, honest, and knowledgeable reviews about most of the machines and they don't exist. I've tried to find an affordable machine besides the Vacmaster units and have, again, found nothing. On and off for the past two years, I've searched for a used, refurbished, surplus, whatever machine and have found used machines for the same price as new but not much else.

After not listening to those of you that said 'you're throwing away money with a Foodsaver', I've killed my second one. Never again.

So, I'm asking for help. Am I being unreasonable asking for a good machine with a serious review for less than $2000? $1500? Do refurbished machines exist? Should I give up and just buy a Vacmaster 215? Hey, manufacturers, if two of you send me a machine I will give them a complete and honest side-by-side review. (Yes, I'll send them back)

Who can help me find a vacuum sealer?

Thanks, y'all,

Sam

[Syzygies]

I too have craved a chamber machine for years. I've been reluctant to spend a comma and to take up so much counter space with something so massively heavy. I know that everyone who gets a chamber machine loves it, and I do want one. I'm fed up with multiple FoodSavers I've wanted to hurl across the room. I need to stock two kitchens, one of which my wife rules.

On the other hand we believe that some bags are intended to be heated to sous vide temperatures, and some are not. Part of the problem with FoodSavers is that the bags are expensive, not that good quality, and not explicitly ok for 48 hour simmers.

I finally noticed that VacMaster, maker of my favorite heat-safe chamber bags (trivial to seal with an impulse sealer if one has enough liquid in the pouch, or seal once, nick the corner, immerse to force out air, seal again), now makes heat-safe "channel" vacuum bags for clamp machines:

http://vacmaster.aryvacmaster.com/cgi/ary.wsc/storagebags?p-item-num=VacStrip

These cost less than FoodSaver bags, and are a neat design: The outer pouch is solid and 3 mil, like their chamber bags. There's an additional strip of material down the middle of the inside, to give a route for the air to get sucked out. They work, and provide better freezer protection than a pouch with the channels engraved into the outer bag. Nevertheless, get their bone guard sheets too; a bone punctured one bag on me because what's next pulled the bag so tight:

Minipack is apparently discontinuing their Cyclone series of clamp machines. I picked up one for $295 plus tax, then immediately another for $350 no tax, for two kitchens:

http://www.thevakshack.com/catalog/item/8248869/8943492.htm

There's nothing remarkable about this machine. It just works, as you'd expect a dime store machine to work. Except the dime store machines like FoodSaver are all junk (at least FoodSaver has excellent customer service), and the Minipack machine indeed does just work. It's metal, with a 4mm seal bar. The pump appears unremarkable and is quiet, but appears to outperform FoodSavers. There's a digital pressure display that shows it is ready to sealing at 6.5 Kpa, and often reaches 7.2 Kpa before the timer starts the seal. (Atmospheric pressure is around 100 Kpa, and a good chamber machine gets most of the way to a perfect vacuum, but this little bit of the way is more than FoodSaver, and enough to draw bags tight around food.) It has four programs to save adjustable settings; there is a simpler nonadjustable model, but length of seal time could be a deal-breaker with the wrong bags.

The foam gasket looks like a beefier version of the FoodSaver gasket, only it doesn't need replacing each year (or so they say) and can't be replaced. There's a bit of a break in period where I left the machine ajar for the rubber to relax after years stuck closed. I also sometimes wet the gasket, as I would to nurse a FoodSaver along. However, after a few days, the machine just works, every time. Like breaking in a shoe, are you really breaking in your foot? Who knows, but I got the hang of this.

If for any reason you decide to abort and seal now, the pump stays on while you seal. The reason I hurled my final FoodSaver across the room was that it was never finishing its cycle, and as I manually hit seal, the pump cut off letting air back into the bag. I rarely feel contempt for my fellow man but I loathe the FoodSaver engineer who thought this would do. Or the MBA who told him to do it this way, to save a dollar.

So I'm limping along for another generation without a chamber machine, because I found (for now) the basic machine that I wish one could buy at Target. Except we know that if you expect to pay $100 you're buying crap made in China that just barely works. If everything cost $350 instead you'd be used to it. I'm making my peace with this truth, and buying fewer things each of quality, as my German friends do.

[samuelpeter]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I certainly like the idea of a external machine that actually works, but I've mentally committed to a full chamber. I can't continue with the liquid limitation anymore.

[Syzygies]

I can't continue with the liquid limitation anymore.

One should get handy with chamber vacuum bags and a $40 impulse sealer before considering any other options.

The Cyclones, like FoodSavers and many but not all clamp machines, have a drip tray so a bit of liquid won't hurt. One hangs the bag off the counter, and hits seal when the stream reaches the top of the bag, before any significant quantity reaches the tray. Water is incompressible; the Kpa or whatever readings are totally irrelevant. Once liquid replaces air, the bag is ready to be sealed. Period.

With more liquid, any vacuum machine is way overkill. Would you pull out a food processor to mince one garlic clove? No. You'd pull out a knife.

It is utterly trivial to jiggle a bag of liquid over the impulse sealer seal bar, so the liquid is on one side, and the air is on the other. Perhaps there will be a 1/4 tsp air bubble if you hurry. Who cares? I put away stock, or tomatoes this way. I couldn't be bothered to involve a more sophisticated machine. This is dead simple. Anyone who hasn't tried it just doesn't know.

I wanted a clamp machine for storing or freezing dry foods, and trying dry sous vide techniques. One only needs a little liquid in a pouch with an impulse sealer, if one is willing to immerse the pouch in water (like people do with ziplock bags) to get the air out. The technique is to seal once, snip a corner, tease out the air, seal again. I got this to work well because I'm stubborn. It hasn't caught on, but it does work well. The Cyclone is far easier.

Chamber machines have the corresponding restriction that you can't seal hot foods. Huh. To me that was as much a deal breaker as the "liquid limitation."

In short, I use this clamp machine for dry jobs, and the impulse sealer for wet jobs, hot or not.

[rotuts]

OK

I can't continue with the liquid limitation anymore.

I dont have a CVS. I have

http://vackpak.com/Pro21002300vacuumnew.html

but Ive looked into the CVS and felt Id deal with liquid some other way. Expect to pay at least $ 2- 2.5 K some here might know value for less. avoid those from China, maybe.

this has been covered ad nauseum ( ) in other threads here. sorry i cant give you the ref.

[samuelpeter]

Sealing a bag of liquid without air is not the reason I want a chamber vac. I want to pull an actual vacuum on my food. Faster and fuller brining, flavor infusions, compression, etc etc.

I'm really hoping to hear from people that have experience with chamber vacuums.

[Baselerd]

I'm in the same boat as you Samuel. As much as we try to convince ourselves our crappy food savers and edge sealers can be used for things other than sealing dry foods, they really can't. At least not to a satisfactory degree. I think the Vac Master VP112 is the cheapest widely available vacuum sealer. I know Sous Vide Supreme has a rebranded version for $100 more too.

All under $1000, but I don't really know if it's worthwhile to go economy with such an expensive piece of equipment. Especially one with so many potential failure points.

[sigma]

I can't continue with the liquid limitation anymore.

One should get handy with chamber vacuum bags and a $40 impulse sealer before considering any other options.

The Cyclones, like FoodSavers and many but not all clamp machines, have a drip tray so a bit of liquid won't hurt. One hangs the bag off the counter, and hits seal when the stream reaches the top of the bag, before any significant quantity reaches the tray. Water is incompressible; the Kpa or whatever readings are totally irrelevant. Once liquid replaces air, the bag is ready to be sealed. Period.

With more liquid, any vacuum machine is way overkill. Would you pull out a food processor to mince one garlic clove? No. You'd pull out a knife.

It is utterly trivial to jiggle a bag of liquid over the impulse sealer seal bar, so the liquid is on one side, and the air is on the other. Perhaps there will be a 1/4 tsp air bubble if you hurry. Who cares? I put away stock, or tomatoes this way. I couldn't be bothered to involve a more sophisticated machine. This is dead simple. Anyone who hasn't tried it just doesn't know.

I wanted a clamp machine for storing or freezing dry foods, and trying dry sous vide techniques. One only needs a little liquid in a pouch with an impulse sealer, if one is willing to immerse the pouch in water (like people do with ziplock bags) to get the air out. The technique is to seal once, snip a corner, tease out the air, seal again. I got this to work well because I'm stubborn. It hasn't caught on, but it does work well. The Cyclone is far easier.

Chamber machines have the corresponding restriction that you can't seal hot foods. Huh. To me that was as much a deal breaker as the "liquid limitation."

In short, I use this clamp machine for dry jobs, and the impulse sealer for wet jobs, hot or not.

This really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There is no reason to learn how to do every possible workaround before doing something right.

FWIW, I have an MVS31 and have had for several years. I use it as much as anything in my kitchen other than knives and range, and not mostly for sous vide.

Edited February 28, 2013 by sigma (log)

[Unpopular Poet]

One quick update -- thanks to Bob Jueneman, I am now the happy owner of an MVS-31X. Thanks to everyone who helped me through this process of choosing which chamber sealer is right for me. I am so excited to get cooking....Thanks again to everyone! Updates to come!

Edited March 1, 2013 by Unpopular Poet (log)

[Steve Irby]

I'm a more than happy owner of a VP-112. Here's where I bought mine - http://www.homebutcher.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23. I purchased the scratch and dent mode lfor $499 shipping included just about a year ago and you would be hard pressed to find a flaw. It's listed as out of stock. I have seen it at other sites for around $650. It may not have all the bells and whistles but it is solid and does the job. A nice advantage of the 12-inch seal bar is you can seal two 6-inch bags at a time. Great for small portions and reduces wear and tear. It has the same motor as the VP-210 but can be used on a counter top with cabinets above. It is heavy, probably around 60# so you better have a dedicated place to park it. I have gone through 800-900 cycles to date and it has performed very well. The bags cost 3-4 cents which is 10x less than seal a meals so it can pay for itself with steady use. Does a great job on liquids with caveat do not start with the bag to full. Butcher Packer also has very good pricing on bags. At 30 second cycle it will pull 29.5 " hg.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Steve Irby (log)

[pbear]

FWIW, a little googling on the VP-112 turned up this eGullet thread on the machine and comparing it to other options.

[Mjx]

I couldn't seem to find any information on whether the VP210 and 215 have a port for sealing containers, like the VP-112 does. Do they? If not, are the chambers of the 210/215 big enough to hold the containers within to seal them? (I think I saw someone say that this works with a 60-70% vacuum before the containers collapse).

There's a discussion of these units in the VacMaster VP210 vs. VacMaster VP112 topic (yep, the 215, too).

[Unpopular Poet]

Ok, so as one final update and first experiment -- Last night I knew that I wouldn't be cooking anything but I was dying to test out the MVS-31X (besides sealing a bag of water, which just made me happy) so I decided to try my hand at fruit infusion -- so I looked in the fridge and tried some strawberries (halved) infused with dark chocolate, balsamic, murphy's irish stout, thyme, Himalayan pink salt, cream and some sriracha (couple drops). I bagged it up and sealed it at 99.9 + 30 seconds of additional vacuum time. I threw them in the freezer for 15-20 minutes and waited for my wife to get home. Holy cow! This recipe needs some tweaking for sure, but I am amazed at how in depth the flavors were in just that short period of time. The thyme and balsamic sang out with each bite while the cream simply made it luscious and pleasant. The chocolate and sriracha were slightly noticeable on the back end with the whole thing finishing with another bright burst of thyme -- really interesting and delightful. I need to mess around with the ratios, and see what I can accomplish, but I have had some additional thoughts -- maybe cantaloupe infused with rendered prosciutto fat and white wine vinegar? Thanks again to Bob for making this possible -- as I told him -- my wife is thanking him now too!

[Unpopular Poet]

Now I'm just being annoying. I wanted to post another experiment -- Tangerines infused with aquavit, chili paste, white wine vinegar, honey and herbs de Provence -- Now, I really liked the strawberries, but these were simply incredible. Same as before -- 99.99 + 30 (no freezer time) and popped in a bowl straight from the bag -- I am relatively certain that these were one of the most complex, interesting dishes I have ever made in 3 minutes -- the entire tangerine's consistency changed to firm yet bursting with juice. Upon first bite, the champagne vinegar and chili really burst, almost like a dressing with the tangerine juice -- it was immediately followed by a nice herb finish, clearly from the aqauvit and herbs de Provence. I think these tangerines, coupled with some roasted beets and marscapone could be a wonderful salad. I would even say that the mix that remains in the bag could be blended with some nice olive oil and served as the dressing over the beets if wanted. These were definitely a keeper.

Dan

Edited March 1, 2013 by Unpopular Poet (log)

[Robert Jueneman]

Unpopular Poet, you are going to have to change your moniker if you keep coming up with those kinds of recipes! Now I've got to go to the store and buy some strawberries, tangerines, aquavit, etc., etc.

As you experiment, please note the quanties of each, and let us all know.

Great job!

[Robert Jueneman]

OK, Dan, you made me go to the liqour store (two, really) to find aquavit and Murphy's Irish stout, and then Whole Foods to find stawberries, "sumo" tangerines, etc., etc.

Now, how about a little more detail about the actual infusion process? It seems to me that if you merely put all of that stuff in a bag and vacuumed it at 99.9% + 30, you would have completely squashed and compressed the fruit. So did you put it in some kind of a rigid container, and then into a bag?

How did you keep the liquid from errupting/boiling all over the chamber?

The dark chocolate -- was it a powder, or ice cream topping, or what?

The whole world wants to know!

[blackp]

Unpopular Poet - Interesting combinations.

Did you know that you don't need to bag things that you want to infuse? Just submerge them in a container which will fit under the lid of your chamber machine and run the vacuum. I generally stop when the boiling looks like it will make a mess, and for stronger infusion you can do this multiple times.

I've not been as adventurous as you but vodka into watermelon is delicious as is gin, and speed pickles made by infusing cucumber slices with champagne vinegar were also successful.

Cheers,

Peter.

[PedroG]

. . . .

Did you know that you don't need to bag things that you want to infuse? Just submerge them in a container which will fit under the lid of your chamber machine and run the vacuum. I generally stop when the boiling looks like it will make a mess, and for stronger infusion you can do this multiple times.

. . . .

Peter.

Yes, Peter, bagging is not necessary, and the trick with rigid containers works even with clamp type machines, as I showed back in 2009:

Infusing cucumbers, melons etc

Instant rum pot

Sorry, these Wikia articles no longer look as they were created and arranged because Wikia staff replaced the "Monaco skin" with their crappy "new look".

See also an earlier discussion in the old SV topic and Cooking with Your Absurdly Expensive Chamber Sealer.

[Twyst]

Before I go ahead and pull the trigger on the VP 215 Id just like to make sure that it produces good results when it comes to compression and flash marinating. Does it pull a strong enough vacuum to do those well?

[Unpopular Poet]

Bob -- I simply bagged the items and set it on the liquid tray and went to 99.9 + 30 seconds -- the liquid boiled in the bag, but as I did very little (4 strawberries/1 tangerine) in a decent sized bag, I found that the liquid boiled, but didn't boil out, mainly because the bag was larger enough to contain the liquid -- of which there actually was very little (perhaps a 1/4 of a cup maybe a bit more). As far as the smashing of the fruit, It was nicely compressed, but not smashed -- the tangerines changed color to a deeper color and were slightly more firm. As far as the ratios go I would say the following is a close representation --

for the strawberries -- I used 1-2 tablespoons of the following -- dark chocolate infused balsamic, murphy's and cream. I added a few drops of sriracha and a few turns of the pink salt grinder. Overall, I would say that this needs some tweaking -- it was definitely good, but could be much better -- perhaps some better balsamic, and actually more sriracha (the idea to add sriracha came from when I once topped very cold red grapes with a healthy drop of sriracha to emulate red peppers -- if you close your eyes, it is really amazing how much they taste like a fresh red pepper). I whisked all of the ingredients and added to the 10X13 bag and ran it at 99.9 +30. Then to the freezer for 20 minutes.

for the tangerines -- 1 tablespoon each of the white wine vinegar and the honey, 1.5 of aquavit (I used northshore aquavit which is not anything like the Norwegian aquavits - but still close enough), 1/2 a tablespoon of herbs de provence and just a tiny bit (maybe 1/2 a teaspoon at most) of chili garlic paste. I am not positive of the ratios -- I basically eyeballed it at the time and now I am trying to work backwards.

I am going to experiment on more stuff tonight -- I will take notes and report anything interesting.