Pressure Cookers: 2011 and beyond

[ojisan]

I was ready to return the Fissler, but decided to first try Laura's test:

- 1 C. chickpeas (purchased '09), soaked 8 hrs.

- 4 C. water; cooked at high pressure, 13 min.

- natural release, 13 min.

- result: ceci's were intact; texture was creamy soft, like a baked potato; overcooked?

- about 3 C. liquid left over

Anyone else tried this test?

Edited October 2, 2013 by ojisan (log)

[Martin Fisher]

got the Ball pint jars. they look like this in the 6 L Fagor:

PC & Jar.jpg

there is some parallax here but there is about 1" clearance to the top of the bottom 6 L pot.!

with the insert placed under the jar. Id probably be able to do 4 at a time which is all I really need.

Your thoughts?

thanks

This designer Ball jar will fit into many of the smaller pressure cookers.

It's pint sized, ~3 and 3/4 inches tall (95 mm) and wide-mouth, which is nice.

Edited October 2, 2013 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Anyone else tried this test?

No, but now I want to...before my window to return the Fissler runs out.

I spent time today rereading reviews (again) of the different brands of pressure cookers. Except for this temperature question, my Fissler does everything I want. (At least, that is, until such time it breaks.) I wonder if it's possible Fissler doesn't understand how their own pots work?

[pazzaglia]

Ojisan, that sounds great... did you get a chance to try a cup at 22 min?

Did you brine them when soaking?

Ciao,

L

Edited October 2, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[pazzaglia]

JoNorvelle, something is definitely fishy. I haven't stopped with my fact-finding mission, yet.

I work with all pressure cooker manufacturers but I do so as an advocate for the consumer. That's why I'm not afraid to write a negative product review and I won't stop asking questions until the answers start to make sense.

Ciao,

L

Edited October 2, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

For the test should the chickpeas be brined for the soak or not?

[pazzaglia]

The chickpeas should NOT be brined for the test.

I asked Ojisan if he did because its unusual that a truly LOW pressure cooker could give him tender results in that amount of time.

Brining beans cuts cooking time significantly -also in the pressure cooker. I have not had the opportunity, yet, to test and calculate how much cooking time brining cuts from the recommended pressure cookingtime - though I suspect it's close to half.

Personally, I think the only way we're going to figure out this U.S. Vitaquick is if I get one in-house to test and measure myself with the proper tools (like a remote logging thermometer).

Ciao,

L

[chippy]

JoNorvelle, something is definitely fishy. I haven't stopped with my fact-finding mission, yet.

I work with all pressure cooker manufacturers but I do so as an advocate for the consumer. That's why I'm not afraid to write a negative product review and I won't stop asking questions until the answers start to make sense.

Ciao,

L

nothing fishy at all, you seem to have a real problem with fissler and ATK but i just cant see why you do or what FACTS back up any of your claims, which are often taken out of context.

the ATK is independent, dont take money from brands or manufactures, they showed in brief (i am sure they arnt writing a university thesis just for you to read, they sell or share their outcomes from books/magazines or maybe internet membership afaik, and have zero reason they say to promote one brand over another, perhaps you see them as treading on your turf, i dont know, i really cant understand your continual distain for ATK and Fissler, i dont know ATK at all, i'm not even on the same continent, just this review, read some background on them and one or two Utubes, but they look credible to me, they actually have credentials, not just self made PC guru's looking to criticise other authors to boost their own credibility, but if they are lying, its crook! but their is ZERO proof of that, nor is their ANY proof their tests were faulty, only innuendo from you, things like 'from what i saw' or 'reading between the lines' etc etc, non of that proves their test was in any way faulty, perhaps you should write to them with your concerns. you can see in the Utube they plugged in equipment and showed some results on a computer screen, its there to SEE, or is it some kind of elaborate conspiracy? whats the motive? sell some books, which is what you do as well! their methods seem credible and scientific (at least to a reasonable point) your reviews are more rudimentary, hands on, but thats ok, but considering you left the Fissler on the stove and scorched it bronze (!) ,which takes quite some doing by the way! as i am sure any one here knows thats ever ruined a pot...here is your quote so i am not taking you out of context, inadvertently

"Laura @ Hip Pressure Cooking

I don't know about bullet-proof, but yes the stainless steel is very thick and high quality.

I did not want to mention how the damage was made because it was not part of the review process. I accidentally ran the cooker without water for 5 minutes on high heat and ruined the base (it turned bronze) and likely melted the internal aluminium disk - this was fatal to all the other components.

Since I do not put all other cookers on high heat without water for five minutes I did not want to penalise the manufacturer for this accident - which was entirely my fault and would not ordinarily be covered by the warranty.

Ciao,

L "

five minutes to melt the aluminium disk and turn bronze seems a quite short time, i have destroyed a few pots and pans in my time and it took a lot longer than that!, not that its important..either way this sort of treatment can ruin your handles and who knows what else, this sort of mistakes make you no better than ATK, or any of us either for that matter....the only other person you found with the same 'handle' problem, was on amazon that had the same problem. being helpful to the community you immediately reported it, but i am not sure you followed up with Fisslers reply that said it could only happen with extreme abuse of heat etc (coincidently the same thing happened to your PC), nor that they apparently fixed it up for her if i recall and she was satisfied .

you have jumped on the inconsistency with the two different manuals UK vs US with such zeal it is embarrassing to see and read,

the two different setting (ring 1 and ring 2) operating pressures , it may just be a typo or may a legal thing to keep the US authorities happy that it complies to their standards, but as far as i can tell there is no difference between the two, the parts listing seem to be mirror identical, not one for only US and a different part for the UK (even if there was it would be easy to change for tiny amount of money).

you also accidentally or intentionally (?) missed out the next sentence/paragraph in the US manual where it says the valve does not vent/depressurizes until it reaches the MAX of 14.50psi (100kpa)...who knows why the US manual says 30 and 60kpa for 1&2 settings (could be to around US regulations in some way) but it really has no bearing in actual use, the lines are about 1mm thick it might be measured at the top of the line in the US and the bottom of the line in the UK but there is also nearly a mm under the 2nd ring as well, either way it doesnt start to vent untill 100kpa is reached acording to the US manual, something you forgot to report!

its all very well and good to be someone that will report a negative review without fear and promote yourself as being the flag carrier that will not stop asking question of the manufactures (as though they are some corporate evil conspiracy telling us lies-and i like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, the movie with Mel Gibson always makes me laugh-heck i'm a guy i find it entertaining lol, single dad that has raised three kids all with high university decrees (2 PhD's amongst them and have good jobs now, entirely on my own, did ok i reckon-so i am proud-shoot me) on everyones behalf, but so far imo you are doing way more harm than good, you already have two people seriously considering sending back their product, WHY WHY WHY, its based entirely on your unsupported rantings, innuendo and supported, non confirmed facts....i was one of these people several months ago or longer that nearly didnt purchase this product because of what you wrote about them, i looked past your comments and have to say this product, this PC works just fine and dandy...you dont even own this PC so please stop making accusations about something you have no experience with...

i could on quoting you and showing where you are proven wrong in relation to this PC but i think you get the idea.

please in future hold back on you innuendo, comments until you have actual facts to report, it doesnt help single parents, or whole families who scrimp and save to buy something they want/hope to be quality, to have you, without any proof what so ever make them feel bad about a purchase...they haven't even had time to properly use it, or become proficient at using it, great time to swoop in and tell them they made a poor purchase when in reality the product works perfectly, absolutely perfectly, and you would know if you owned one!

i forget (without reading back) who asked or was concerned about the water/steam leaking from near the handle, but it is ABSOLUTELY normal until it comes up to pressure (please, READ the manual, its all there, its not a problem, from experience it, perhaps happens once or twice while cooking on occasion, if you dont keep it steady at a pressure, not a big deal, stop worrying! its just the machine doing its job, well, its not an old style pressure cooker, it has several safety and systems in place to make it work well!! (all our flames/heat sources are little different, another reason why down to the seconds or minutes are a stupid way to 'accurately' measure for reference of one PC to another and whether your PC works properly or not, for example at the moment i usually place my PC's on a med or high sized natural gas ring so long as the flames dont lick up the sides of the pot (you burn handles that way!!!!) (different countries have different names for the fuel, and all rings can output somewhat different heat outputs, but its all close enough for our proposes, unless your on portable LPG cylinders, which is slightly different, still works fine though) . so as i say i usually place on high flame to get up to pressure quick them move to my small sauce burner (is a low output burner) and it is usually just right for keeping pressure perfect, each of us, using our own stoves can/have to manage that.

i'd like to reassure any new buyers that my experience with this brand is spot on, no problems what so ever, the concerns and carry on about little things like manuals makes little sense (to me) when same people appear to have such great access to the net and the other guru's really need to take on board the positive (if not perfect!) outcomes/reviews we (normal everyday users) people that actually own the machine have had!

rant over.....

but surely someone had to say it!

cheers

[pazzaglia]

I want to make it crystal clear that I'm not holding anything against ATK or Fissler.

I personally reported chipping and splitting handles directly to Fissler in 2012 - for their new model someone wrote an amazon review and posted photos of their handles chipping and breaking.

Both in this forum and on amazon reviews customers reported getting the wrong manual with the pressure cooker, earlier a participant also even quoted an email to customer support.

The Fissler U.S. manual states, and Fissler product manager confirmed, to me personally the U.S. Vitaquick pressure cooker operates at 60kpa.

As far as America's Test Kitchen is concerned, they reported measuring a pressure cooker reaching a temperature level that is not technically possible given the information the manufacturer themselves has published about that pressure cooker. You can calculate if this information is correct yourself by plugging in 60kpa into the Atonine equation and working out the temperature it equates to.

I do fault ATK for putting out a cookbook with cooking times that are vastly different from those that have been published and tested elsewhere. I am not the first or only critic of their reviews another pressure cooker expert published an entire article about the flaws of ATK's reviews when they published them 1996.

I have open, up-front and completely honest and transparent in my interactions here and elsewhere - my username is my real last name. I have nothing to hide and no official cookbook to sell until mine is published next year.

Edited October 2, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[ojisan]

Ojisan, that sounds great... did you get a chance to try a cup at 22 min?

Did you brine them when soaking?

Ciao,

L

I did not brine the chickpeas, and didn't try a 22 min. version (I didn't have any more chickpeas to test, and also felt the 13 min. version was already over cooked. Maybe the 13 min natural release was too long.) FWIW, I used a 6L model, have a gas stove and am at sea level.

Regarding the manual, it says Setting 2 operates at 60kPa, and, "If setting 2 is exceeded, the control valve automatically depressurizes so that the pressure does not surpass a maximum of 14.50 PSI (100 kPa)." I interpret this as saying the Vitaquick will blow out when it reaches 14.5, not that it cooks at 14.50.

If the 13 min. chickpea test is a reliable indicator, it appears that the Vitaquick actually is a 15-ish lb. cooker, and Fissler's specs are off. Hopefully other Vitaquick owners will run the same test, as well as KR owners too for comparison.

I support Ms. Pazzaglia's findings and her contribution to the pressure cooking community. I've also never been a fan of ATF due to their We Know What's Right and Everyone Else Is Wrong attitude, and consider their pressure cooker findings to be suspect especially after reading the Amazon reviews on timing inaccuracies in their new Pressure Cooker Perfection book.

[pazzaglia]

Ojisan, that sounds great... did you get a chance to try a cup at 22 min?

Did you brine them when soaking?

Ciao,

L

I did not brine the chickpeas, and didn't try a 22 min. version (I didn't have any more chickpeas to test, and also felt the 13 min. version was already over cooked. Maybe the 13 min natural release was too long.) FWIW, I used a 6L model, have a gas stove and am at sea level.

.

Hmm... interesting. And... your particular Vitaquick also takes about 5 minutes to gain and loose pressure as as it does for Jo? Does the rim of the lid have U.S. stamped on it?

Regarding the manual, it says Setting 2 operates at 60kPa, and, "If setting 2 is exceeded, the control valve automatically depressurizes so that the pressure does not surpass a maximum of 14.50 PSI (100 kPa)." I interpret this as saying the Vitaquick will blow out when it reaches 14.5, not that it cooks at 14.50.

You are correct, that 100kpa is the "over pressure" release and not the operating (or cooking) pressure. Comparatively this over-pressure safety release happens at 17.4psi for Kuhn Rikon (that operates at 15psi) and 21.7psi for the WMF (which operates at 14psi) - we can safely deduce that the over-pressure release will be 2-7psi less than the operating pressure.

The over-pressure safety release can only equal the operating pressure in the case of venting cookers - but then the "operation" is a quite different animal. It's more of a yo-yo-like in that with every release from the valve the pressure inside drops lightly and it starts to build back up until the next release.

Ciao,

L

[ojisan]

Alas, I did not time how long it took to gain high pressure, nor how long it took for the pressure indicator to completely recede. However, it did take 13 min. until there was NO pressure in the pot. (I was allowing the extra time because the chickpeas were 4 yrs. old.)

The lid is marked US, and the manufacturing date is 1013 (10th week of 2013).

The next time I use it, I will time both how long to gain and lose pressure. I have been timing it so the white ring shows completely.

[i think you meant "we can safely deduce that the over-pressure release will be 2-7psi MORE than the operating pressure.]?

p.s. - Your HipPressure website timings for risotto and soft-boiled eggs are spot-on.

[patrickamory]

FWIW, I got the 6-quart Presto a year ago. No spring valve, no nice gauge, and you have to deal with optimizing the jiggle. And I love it. Pretty much everything I've made in it has turned out perfectly, and the timings are right on.

And probably 1/4 the price...

[pazzaglia]

[i think you meant "we can safely deduce that the over-pressure release will be 2-7psi MORE than the operating pressure.]?

It was getting late in the day for me and my mild dyslexia made that sentence look perfect before I hit "post". Yes, that is what I meant - thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify!

Ciao,

L

[ojisan]

Take note if you purchase your Fissler from Amazon...

I contacted Fissler via their US website to inquire about their warranty, and specifically to verify an Amazon review I came across. Here is their reply:

Thank you for your response.

The Vitaquick has a limited lifetime warranty....

However, the vendor of Amazon, [xxxxx] does not seem to be an authorized dealer.

Please check our website www.fisslerusa.com and to go the Where to Buy tab for a list of authorized dealers.

If products are purchased from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is not valid.

I don't know if other manufacturers (Kuhn Rikon, etc.) have the same policy.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Take note if you purchase your Fissler from Amazon...

I contacted Fissler via their US website to inquire about their warranty, and specifically to verify an Amazon review I came across. Here is their reply:

Thank you for your response.

The Vitaquick has a limited lifetime warranty....

However, the vendor of Amazon, [xxxxx] does not seem to be an authorized dealer.

Please check our website www.fisslerusa.com and to go the Where to Buy tab for a list of authorized dealers.

If products are purchased from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is not valid.

I don't know if other manufacturers (Kuhn Rikon, etc.) have the same policy.

To my knowledge Amazon never sells Fissler pressure cookers. The Fissler pressure cookers listed on Amazon state who sells them. In the case of the Fissler I purchased on Amazon the dealer was Eurostoves. (Edit: I see Eurostoves is indeed listed as a Fissler dealer on the Fissler website.)

In contrast Kuhn Rikon pressure cookers are sold by Amazon.

My 13 minute chickpeas are cooling in the pot as we speak.

Edited October 5, 2013 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[ojisan]

To clarify: Amazon does not sell Fissler directly (Amazon is not an authorized reseller). Instead, 3rd party vendors sell Fisslers through Amazon, and Amazon provides fulfillment for some of them. My point is that many of the vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, therefore no warranty.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I was ready to return the Fissler, but decided to first try Laura's test:

- 1 C. chickpeas (purchased '09), soaked 8 hrs.

- 4 C. water; cooked at high pressure, 13 min.

- natural release, 13 min.

- result: ceci's were intact; texture was creamy soft, like a baked potato; overcooked?

- about 3 C. liquid left over

Anyone else tried this test?

To my taste the 13 minute chickpeas are over cooked. Great flavor though. There were maybe some differences between our two tests.

My chickpeas (Goya brand) were purchased yesterday.

The chickpeas were soaked in unsalted water about 18 hours. I had hoped to have the soak time closer to 8 hours, but one has to make ice cream when one can.

I followed the advice of Modernist Cuisine to vent for about 30 seconds at pressure to expel remaining air, to allow the pot to reach full temperature. In other words even if a pot is at 15 PSI pressure and there is any air inside, the temperature will never reach 250 deg F.

I believe I measured the 13 minute cooking time accurately by my watch. However I did not time the natural release as carefully (for one thing, I was responding to your post above). My release time was about 13 or 14 minutes.

Now I have to decide how to cook the other half of the chickpeas. I certainly don't want to go to 22 minutes!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

To clarify: Amazon does not sell Fissler directly (Amazon is not an authorized reseller). Instead, 3rd party vendors sell Fisslers through Amazon, and Amazon provides fulfillment for some of them. My point is that many of the vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, therefore no warranty.

Sorry I misunderstood. You might want to contact Amazon if your dealer was not authorized.

[pazzaglia]

Well, I am quite puzzled. Even an 11psi InstantPot gives almost al-dente chickpeas at 13 minutes. It APPEARS that you may not have to make time adjustments with your Vitaquick - for some reason. But now you know if anything comes out under-done to just add more time.

I'm going to ask Fissler if they'll send me a U.S. model to test myself (I only have the Euro one). All of the magic happens in the valve so I definitely want to know from them more about the specs of the US vs. EU valves - with more detail than what is written in the manual to pass a UL certification.

Ciao,

L

[pazzaglia]

Take note if you purchase your Fissler from Amazon...

I contacted Fissler via their US website to inquire about their warranty, and specifically to verify an Amazon review I came across. Here is their reply:

Thank you for your response.

The Vitaquick has a limited lifetime warranty....

However, the vendor of Amazon, [xxxxx] does not seem to be an authorized dealer.

Please check our website www.fisslerusa.com and to go the Where to Buy tab for a list of authorized dealers.

If products are purchased from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is not valid.

I don't know if other manufacturers (Kuhn Rikon, etc.) have the same policy.

The Fissler Vitaquick manual it says 3-year warranty on defective parts and 10-year guarantee that they will keep replacement parts around for you. There is nothing written there about it being void if you bought it from an UN-authorized dealer or that it's a lifetime warranty.

Generally the warranty travels with the item, even it's used. I don't know about Germany but in Austria and Italy when you buy used electronics the seller will tell you how much time is left on the warranty and also give you the original receipt and info so that it can be used if needed. So it is also transferable.

If you had a busted or defective Vitaquick I would recommend pushing the issue and consulting an attorney to get more details about whether a manufacturer can refuse to fix or replace a defective item based on who sold it. No matter what route it took to your house - it originated from their factory.

Ciao,

L

Edited October 5, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The photocopied manual Fissler sent me makes no mention of a lifetime warranty and also no mention of the requirement of purchase from an authorized dealer.

I'm not sure, but the US importer may be trying to protect themselves from graymarket goods -- that is Fissler pressure cookers not handled by the importer, with which the importer understandably does not want to get stuck for warranty. Whether it's legal or not I have no idea, but it makes sense from the importer's viewpoint.

Possibly the pots from non-authorized dealers are not stamped with US on the lid?

Or, it may just be more evidence of lack of communication on the part of Fissler.

[ojisan]

Here is Fissler's warranty info: http://www.fisslerusa.com/sample/1aboutfissler/index04.php

"All Fissler products must be purchased from an Authorized Dealer in the United States or Canada in order for Fissler USA to honor any

manufacturer’s warranties."

I believe Roland (the US distributor) requires a copy of your original receipt to verify the retailer for warranty work. I assume if you purchase a greymarket Fissler, the warranty would be covered by the factory in Germany.

Nikon USA's policy is the same. Only cameras/lenses imported by Nikon USA are covered in the US. If greymarket, they won't touch it, and you'll have to send it to Japan for international warranty service.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

When you're done you can make yourself hummus and pasta e ceci.

Indeed! Now that I've prepared both dishes I continue to be very pleased with my Fissler set, whatever the real pressure may turn out to be. The tapered shape is wonderful for working in, and clean up is very easy.

And thank you for the pasta e ceci recipe! One minor note on the ingredients, weight would have been helpful for the pasta measurment, rather than dry volume. I used 4 oz.

[ojisan]

To clarify: Amazon does not sell Fissler directly (Amazon is not an authorized reseller). Instead, 3rd party vendors sell Fisslers through Amazon, and Amazon provides fulfillment for some of them. My point is that many of the vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, therefore no warranty.

Amazon refused to publish my review of the Fissler, which included the following:

Check Fissler's website to verify their U.S. authorized resellers, which is important because "All Fissler products must be purchased from an Authorized Dealer in the United States or Canada in order for Fissler USA to honor any manufacturer's warranties."

Most of Amazon's vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, including a few who claim to be.