Cocktail Mixers: To be or not to be?

[mkspriing]

Hi folks, what do you think about cocktail mixers in general? Have you ever used them or you think it’s a waste of money and nothing can bit “hand made” cocktails? But If you know quality mixers please share.

thanks

[EvergreenDan]

I haven't tasted your product, but I'm guessing that the cocktail mixers are very sweet. And of necessity they must be pasteurized. And they are mostly ingredients that are readily available fresh. And some of the ingredients don't take to processing well (e.g. fresh mint).

On the other hand, if your Grenadine were well-made, it would be interesting. It does not appear to contain pomegranate, however. It also seems to lack floral notes that some desire. It may be an interesting product, but it doesn't sound like Grenadine.

I don't think anyone here is opposed to processed ingredients in some circumstances. Passionfruit syrup, for example, might be well received. Cinnamon syrup, for example, has no fresh counterpart. Orgeat the same.

[thirtyoneknots]

My short answer is that premixes are relatively expensive, and even if they could somehow match the flavor of fresh juices, mint, etc (unlikely), it robs the bartender of a highly important aspect of flexibility. Can't adjust the sweet/sour aspects of anything, and you can only use each mix to make a very limited number of drinks. With just lemons, limes, and simple syrup and the possibilities are literally endless.

[EvergreenDan]

... robs the bartender of a highly important aspect of flexibility. Can't adjust the sweet ... [aspect] of anything.

Yup. Ditto for liqueurs and sweet spirits. <petting peeve quietly>

[Chris Amirault]

What Andy said.

I don't know a single bartender serving quality cocktails who uses mixers.

[mkspriing]

Alright, but would you use cocktail mixers for a home cocktail party, let’s say 20-40 people?

[Chris Amirault]

Never. I throw home parties, do group events, and so on, and would never use mixers. I'd just make a big bowl of punch with my trusty assistant.

[Mjx]

My impression (derived in the US, Italy, and Denmark, so it's admittedly limited) is that mixers are popular where most of the drinkers are teenagers - I'm speaking of the EU for that - or get-togethers that are essentially piss-ups, so alcohol level + high-speed drinkability are the primary concerns. As others have already pointed out, most of what mixers try to provide is fairly straightforward to make from scratch, and worth it if you care about flavour. I didn't drink until I was well into my twenties, so I've never actually tried a mixer; no one I knew by then used them. Once, at a party, I almost tried mixing grenadine into rum, but I automatically looked at the label, and was beyond disappointed to see that it didn't actually contain pomegranate, so I passed (fake fruit flavours are fairly awful).

[thirtyoneknots]

If you're not going to cut corners for 200 covers worth of people who are often as not surly and high maintenance, why would you cut corners for 20 people you actually like, especially ones you actually like enough to give your booze to? For the last several years, largely thanks to David Wondrich's influence (Splificator on this board), old-timey punch has become the party drink of choice for professionals and home enthusiasts alike. It does a good job of economizing potentially labor-intensive items like citrus and of course has the advantage of being made ahead of time to allow the host to socialize during the shindig.

That being said I'm sure that parties where sour mix, tonic, and a few bottles on the counter where guests are left to fend for themselves are still far more common than Fish House Punch.

[haresfur]

When I first got interested in cocktails I bought a bottle of sour mix. Used it once.

[mkspriing]

Ok. What about 100% natural fruit cocktail mixers, with no artificial colours, flavours, preservatives or additives? Have you heard/tasted such mixers?

[Mjx]

Still not the same freshness of flavours, still no control over the precise result. If a drink is simply something to hold while you're talking, or something to just pound back, these things don't really matter.

Thing is, there are, believe it or not, many who actually enjoy preparing the components of a drink from scratch. These are people who are drinking for the flavour of it, who enjoy the equipment you use in the mixing of drinks (e.g. as seen in this week's blog posts), perhaps enjoying something about its history, too. If you have a gorgeous muddler or strainer, why would you want bottles of mixers sitting about?

[Chris Amirault]

I have, and they cannot replace fresh components.

Most Society members who are interested in cocktails are familiar with the research on the degradation of citrus juices, the importance of balance and direction, and the variability of many ingredients. In addition, most of us got into cocktails, either professionally or as avid amateurs (or in many cases like mine, both) for the culinary aspect.

For us, prepackaged mixers are the mixological equivalent of Campbell's chicken noodle soup. Sure, maybe it's not terrible, but who wants to "just add water, heat and serve" if, with a little care and effort, you can make something far superior?

Edited January 25, 2011 by Chris Amirault
ETA: What Mjx said. CA (log)

[thirtyoneknots]

Ok. What about 100% natural fruit cocktail mixers, with no artificial colours, flavours, preservatives or additives? Have you heard/tasted such mixers?

If you're trying to honest market research here and not just promote your existing line, here's something I can advise--cocktail-making as it is practiced by the members of this board is generally very heavy on tradition, which while generally eschewing premixes regardless of purported freshness, does have a goodly number of fruit preservations that are relied upon to greater or lesser degrees. Namely, I'm talking about syrups here. You can go all the way back to Jerry Thomas to see that syrups such as raspberry and orgeat have a longstanding tradition of use, and high quality examples are often difficult to source in many markets without resorting to mail-order or making it yourself, which can be time-consuming and expensive from a labor cost standpoint for many establishments.

If you were to offer high-quality, all-natural, preservative-free (but ideally shelf-stable) examples of syrups such as raspberry, grenadine (pomegranate), orgeat (almond, more or less), pineapple, passion fruit, and others, with fair prices and good distribution, you're much more likely to elicit interest from a group like this.

[Chris Amirault]

I would add shrubs to that list -- which is already covered by others producing high-quality product like Blair Reynolds at Trader Tiki.

[thirtyoneknots]

I would add shrubs to that list -- which is already covered by others producing high-quality product like Blair Reynolds at Trader Tiki.

Yeah, more or less like that, but with distribution like Monin or Finest Call has.

[lancastermike]

Ok. What about 100% natural fruit cocktail mixers, with no artificial colours, flavours, preservatives or additives? Have you heard/tasted such mixers?

As you have seen from the replies so far, you will get no love for your products here. However, there clearly is a market for them. I would feel confident that if you were to visit 100 bars at random 95 or more of them are using mixes.

At the new traditional cocktail bars that do squeeze their own lemons and hand craft each drink your product is not welcome.

So your sales pitch, it seems to me, is to the places that do use them to upgrade the quality of their product by using your products, not in trying to sell it to places that are crafting cocktails by hand

[Chris Amirault]

Mike's probably right. Problem is, those bars don't care too much about quality, or else they wouldn't be using mixers.

No one comes into our bar asking for "natural mixers." I doubt they would elsewhere. If someone is slamming out Cosmos and Margaritas with a mix, they're probably likely to go with the cheapest decent mix. Especially in this economy, it seems tricky to fiddle with the margins as a bar manager unless you have some confidence that you're adding value.

[mkspriing]

If you were to offer high-quality, all-natural, preservative-free (but ideally shelf-stable) examples of syrups such as raspberry, grenadine (pomegranate), orgeat (almond, more or less), pineapple, passion fruit, and others, with fair prices and good distribution, you're much more likely to elicit interest from a group like this.

Grenadine syrups

Passion fruit syrup

Sugar cane syrups

But my question was about cocktail mixers. Obviously Lancastermike is right saying "I will get no love for my products here"

"To be or not to be" was addressed to all cocktail lovers (professionals and consumers).

So far we predominantly hear professionals opinion and it's much appreciated but is there anybody here who could say something in favour of quality mixers they tasted?

[Mjx]

. . . .

"To be or not to be" was addressed to all cocktail lovers (professionals and consumers).

So far we predominantly hear professionals opinion and it's much appreciated but is there anybody here who could say something in favour of quality mixers they tasted?

I think you're still not getting it: I don't know that most of the people writing here are professionals (I'm not), but they do have an attitude towards food that also applies to drinks. I think you're missing the point, and asking the wrong group of people, that is, those who actively avoid mixers: it isn't accidental. No one here is waiting to be converted, wishing they could find a better mixer; mixers are simply of no interest.

[Pierogi]

Let me go on record as stating, in the cocktail world of eGullet, I'm a hack. I'm a poseur. I have no business stating my opinion in with those of Chris Amirault's, Lancastermike's, ThirtyoneKnot's and Haresfur's. None whatsoever. I will never acheive the depth and breadth of their liquor cabinets. I will never have their palates. I will never get to that level.

That said....I am a "consumer" as you said you were interested in hearing from.

I also will never order a drink from a bar, any bar, that uses any commercially prepared mixer such as a sour mix, nor will I prepare one with such a mix in my home. In a dicey bar setting, (like in a chain restaurant) I either order something "un-defialable" like a gin Martini, not too dry, up, with 2 olives, or a Bourbon Manhattan. Or I drink wine.

I make my own grenadine. I make my own simple syrup. I make my own sour mix as I need it. I use fresh citrus only. The difference between that, and the commercial material is staggering, even to my unsophisticated and plebian palate and sensibility.

To me, and this will sound harsh, premade cocktail mixers appeal to people who throw keggers and buy red plastic cups in which to serve their drinks. I've done plenty of that in my time, but now, I know better. It's like the difference between eating at McDonald's and eating at Shake Shack or Taylor's Prime Refresher. Yes, you can get a burger and fries at both places, but they are not in the same league. This crowd is not going to give you any love for premade stuff. Sorry.

[mkspriing]

I think you're missing the point, and asking the wrong group of people, that is, those who actively avoid mixers:

Mjx, yes I get it, but I don't think forum folks are the wrong group of people, we, well most of us just say "no". That is fine. We should close the topic then.

Pierogi, thanks! Good statement in the end. Wasn't trying to get any love for premade stuff. Just wanted to find out where we are with cocktail mixers.

Thanks all!

[thirtyoneknots]

If you were to offer high-quality, all-natural, preservative-free (but ideally shelf-stable) examples of syrups such as raspberry, grenadine (pomegranate), orgeat (almond, more or less), pineapple, passion fruit, and others, with fair prices and good distribution, you're much more likely to elicit interest from a group like this.

Grenadine syrups

Passion fruit syrup

Sugar cane syrups

But my question was about cocktail mixers. Obviously Lancastermike is right saying "I will get no love for my products here"

"To be or not to be" was addressed to all cocktail lovers (professionals and consumers).

So far we predominantly hear professionals opinion and it's much appreciated but is there anybody here who could say something in favour of quality mixers they tasted?

Yes, I saw them on your site (where I could not find an ingredient listing) but not in my local liquor store, hence my point about distribution.

[mkspriing]

Yes, I saw them on your site (where I could not find an ingredient listing) but not in my local liquor store, hence my point about distribution.

Funkin products are available on-line though.

"Yes, I saw them on your site"

Thanks! =) Yes, we offer 100% natural fruit cocktail mixers with no artificial colours, flavours, preservatives or additives. Also Smoothies, Syrups and Fruit Purees.

"I could not find an ingredient listing"

A very fair point, especially when you buy things online. Thanks! We're working on that.