Buttercream centers for chocolates

[mostlylana]

I just had a client bring me a box of buttercreams from Germany. He would really like me to make this type of chocolate. I have an aversion to the sweet fondant filled chocolates that are found in many name brand chocolate boxes - and this is what I have always known as 'buttercreams'. The chocolates he brought me are different. Definitely not as sweet and very light and creamy - almost whipped.

So off I go to look in my books - you know, the standards - Greweling, Wybauw... and nothing. There's no section on buttercreams. Well, not quite true - Wybauw gives a standard fondant recipe and then a variation for cream fondant - no butter mentioned, and no mention of flavours.

I've done a search here on eG and didn't come up with much.

Can someone tell me the story behind these light, creamy, whipped buttercreams? How do they differ from the sweet fondant filled confections in those Russel Stover boxes? And why can't I find any info about them?!

Thanks!!

[HQAntithesis]

I've only had one fondant buttercream that I've liked for as long as I can remember. More that because it's the only one that I've had in ages than the fact that I'm a fussy eater though haha. It was made by a Belgian chocolatier though and he was pretty happy to share the recipe because it was so basic, the main trick, according to him, being having it come out well. Don't quote me on it, but I think it was one part fondant, one part butter, one part chocolate (in his case it was milk chocolate) and then alcohol to taste. I think the difficulty in making a recipe like that is that you want to maintain the emulsion of your butter while, at the same time, having it warm enough that the chocolate incorporated without graininess.

----------------------------

Here's a sample recipes from 'The New International Confectioner', published by Virtue publishing house, that has similar ingredients:

650g butter

400g fondant

200g kirsch

650g milk chocolate

560g white couverture

Combine the butter, fondant and milk couverture. Add the kirsch. Make white chocolate discs with the white couverture then pipe the fondant on top.

----------------------------

It's quite a dated book and the instructions aren't great. As a first attempt, I'd heat the butter and fondant to 30-31C then aerate it or combine it (depending on what you're after). I'd then temper the milk chocolate then overheat it to 30-31C to melt out almost all the crystals then incorporate it into the butter mixture. Then I'd add the kirsch.

[Chocolot]

Not having tasted it, I can only guess, but it might be a cream fondant with added butter and mazetta or marshmallow cream. The mazetta is not as sweet, but gives an airiness to the fondant. The more you add, the softer the center. If you add too much, it is hard to dip.

[pringle007]

I'm not sure its buttercream, but I do a center with my homemade mallow cream, butter, confectioners sugar, and a tsp of cream. I make mallow cream in chocolate, strawberry, chai, blood orange, blueberry honey, etc.. about 30 different mallow cream recipes, so I have a lot of variations I can do with this basic center.

[Kerry Beal]

The Geert's book Belgian Chocolates does the buttercream that I think you are looking for.

I do 200 grams of 118º fondant, 150 grams butter and 300 grams chocolate to make a nice soft butter cream - I'll add whatever flavouring I want. Mixing is best done in a food processor to get it nice and smooth.

[mostlylana]

Wow, I love this forum. Thank you so much for clarifying this quandry for me. I can't say that I would do a lot of buttercreams but I can see the benefit of this center to showcase mild flavours. I also think it would be awesome with peanut butter. Is there such a thing as a peanut butter buttercream?! It looks like I need to get Geert's book...

I am quite intrigued with the mazetta or mallow cream. I did a search and came up with pretty much the same result as my buttercream search - very little. Does the Geert book talk about this? Will anybody share their mallow cream recipe?

One more question. What would be the shelf life of a typical buttercream? I imagine if it's made with cream and butter it would be very similar to a ganache shelf life??

[Kerry Beal]

I am quite intrigued with the mazetta or mallow cream. I did a search and came up with pretty much the same result as my buttercream search - very little. Does the Geert book talk about this? Will anybody share their mallow cream recipe?

One more question. What would be the shelf life of a typical buttercream? I imagine if it's made with cream and butter it would be very similar to a ganache shelf life??

If you get chocolot's book (Candymaking - see her avatar) - it explains the mazetta well and provides recipes. The only other place I've seen it is all the old professional books that I have. I've seen it for sale (but it's easy to make) at Burke's ingredients I think.

Shelf life of the soft buttercreams is really long - it's got all the sugar from the fondant so lasts almost forever. It will lose it's flavour long before it goes bad.

[Lior]

In the spirit of this thread I decided to try out a new recipe in Geert's book- page 175. Disaster struck. One of those clumsy bad days.

I decided to replace the hazelnut paste with pnut butter (for Lana). I also divided the recipe by 5 - cause it was a test run.

Undivided recipe:

So it goes like this : 500g butter, 500 g fondant, 10 drops of vanilla (I used bean)

for the bottom base: 500 g hazelnut paste (I used pnut b), 500 g gianduja, 300 g milk choc

directions say to melt the gianduja, add paste and chocolate and frame it. On top of this you put the fondant cream.

Problems:

1. Base did not harden. I scooped it all back up and tried tempering it-did not work. I then tempered a small amount of choc and added it to the base mixture, still no luck. Tempered some more choc, added it and it more or less hardened - enough to cut.

I won't go into the part when I decided to put it in the fridge and it fell off the tray... luckily baking paper side hit the floor...

2. Then I put the fondant cream on top and it was not enough for a thick layer as required, but a thin thin layer!! It also didn't seem to harden but I am waiting to see. Perhaps fridge again?? (Directions just say to stir butter with fondant until fluffy). I used soft butter.

base should be 5mm and cream 10mm. It is more like 5mm and 5mm...

And of course, the hazelnuts I roasted were no good- bitter-bluckh!! Grrr!

Anyone ever make these monsters? (Buche Whipped Cream Vanilla.

[Kerry Beal]

In the spirit of this thread I decided to try out a new recipe in Geert's book- page 175. Disaster struck. One of those clumsy bad days.

I decided to replace the hazelnut paste with pnut butter (for Lana). I also divided the recipe by 5 - cause it was a test run.

Undivided recipe:

So it goes like this : 500g butter, 500 g fondant, 10 drops of vanilla (I used bean)

for the bottom base: 500 g hazelnut paste (I used pnut b), 500 g gianduja, 300 g milk choc

directions say to melt the gianduja, add paste and chocolate and frame it. On top of this you put the fondant cream.

Problems:

1. Base did not harden. I scooped it all back up and tried tempering it-did not work. I then tempered a small amount of choc and added it to the base mixture, still no luck. Tempered some more choc, added it and it more or less hardened - enough to cut.

I won't go into the part when I decided to put it in the fridge and it fell off the tray... luckily baking paper side hit the floor...

2. Then I put the fondant cream on top and it was not enough for a thick layer as required, but a thin thin layer!! It also didn't seem to harden but I am waiting to see. Perhaps fridge again?? (Directions just say to stir butter with fondant until fluffy). I used soft butter.

base should be 5mm and cream 10mm. It is more like 5mm and 5mm...

And of course, the hazelnuts I roasted were no good- bitter-bluckh!! Grrr!

Anyone ever make these monsters? (Buche Whipped Cream Vanilla.

You've got me laughing - I can just picture the whole thing playing out. Does the 5 second rule apply in a commercial kitchen?

[Lior]

I think I almost cursed at the time. I am not a curser and my family would have fainted if they heard "fu...sha!" That is how it came out.

Luckily it is just an experiment- so the family will get it tonight for dessert- if it hardens. In my home, amongst the 4 cats and dog we have the 2 second rule, and blowing air on it, phh phh and it is good enough to eat - no one ever got sick yet!

Sigh...

[Lior]

ok update:

The buttercream is still totally soft. Even if I fridge it, when I dip it it can melt!

Hasn't anyone made these? The buttercream is very tasty although a bit too sweet for my likings.

[Kerry Beal]

ok update:

The buttercream is still totally soft. Even if I fridge it, when I dip it it can melt!

Hasn't anyone made these? The buttercream is very tasty although a bit too sweet for my likings.

I usually pipe these buttercreams rather than use them in a slabbed form.

[lebowits]

ok update:

The buttercream is still totally soft. Even if I fridge it, when I dip it it can melt!

Hasn't anyone made these? The buttercream is very tasty although a bit too sweet for my likings.

I usually pipe these buttercreams rather than use them in a slabbed form.

This might be a good topic for the 2010 workshop!

[Kerry Beal]

ok update:

The buttercream is still totally soft. Even if I fridge it, when I dip it it can melt!

Hasn't anyone made these? The buttercream is very tasty although a bit too sweet for my likings.

I usually pipe these buttercreams rather than use them in a slabbed form.

This might be a good topic for the 2010 workshop!

Indeed it might - a comparison of various centers. Even getting into" 'true buttercreams' -is there any way to prevent them from being grossly sweet?"

[lebowits]

ok update:

The buttercream is still totally soft. Even if I fridge it, when I dip it it can melt!

Hasn't anyone made these? The buttercream is very tasty although a bit too sweet for my likings.

I usually pipe these buttercreams rather than use them in a slabbed form.

This might be a good topic for the 2010 workshop!

Indeed it might - a comparison of various centers. Even getting into" 'true buttercreams' -is there any way to prevent them from being grossly sweet?"

I think that sounds like a great session. Discussion, experimentation. What's not to like?

[Lior]

Great idea. The buttercream never hardened-even for piping it is tooooo soft. Now after it sat out all night the sga continues. It is now in the fridge. I think I will take a photo .

[Lior]

Here is my creation. The base is 5mm as should be. The buttercream should be 10mm. I put it in the fridge and as expected it hardened, but how will it dip? I have yet to discover

[Edward J]

I took my recipie from Richemont's Confectionary school (Luzern)

I take room temp butter, jam, some booze(Kirsch for cherry b/cream, Williams for pear, etc.) and tempered liquid white chocolate. Slab it, crystalize overnight, flip it over, paint the bottom with tempered couverture, flip it back and then cut into 1" squares with a warm/hot roller-cutter (my interpretation of Matfer's $400 roller cutter, albeit only 6 cutters wide salvaged from oversized pizza wheels and wooden (oven proof--to some extent)handles.

I've also piped liquid buttercream into 1" PVC tubes and then sliced when crystalized. However I have to "paint on" a foot by hand, although I've always wanted to ty out "spraying" them with a couverture filled paint sprayer.

Caveat:

Not a big fan of fondant. I grew up in a time of "Black magic" boxed chocolates and really cruddy wine like "Lonesome Charlie" and "Moody Blue". Won't go near either of the above mentioned items......

[Darienne]

I've also piped liquid buttercream into 1" PVC tubes and then sliced when crystalized. However I have to "paint on" a foot by hand, although I've always wanted to ty out "spraying" them with a couverture filled paint sprayer.

Dear Edward J. Could you please fill out the above? 1" PVC tube? How thick is this tube? Do you have a photo? Do you cut right through the tube? Somehow decant the buttercream before cutting? I am lacking in this kind of experience and don't quite get it. Thanks.

[lebowits]

I took my recipie from Richemont's Confectionary school (Luzern)

I take room temp butter, jam, some booze(Kirsch for cherry b/cream, Williams for pear, etc.) and tempered liquid white chocolate. Slab it, crystalize overnight, flip it over, paint the bottom with tempered couverture, flip it back and then cut into 1" squares with a warm/hot roller-cutter (my interpretation of Matfer's $400 roller cutter, albeit only 6 cutters wide salvaged from oversized pizza wheels and wooden (oven proof--to some extent)handles.

I've also piped liquid buttercream into 1" PVC tubes and then sliced when crystalized. However I have to "paint on" a foot by hand, although I've always wanted to ty out "spraying" them with a couverture filled paint sprayer.

Caveat:

Not a big fan of fondant. I grew up in a time of "Black magic" boxed chocolates and really cruddy wine like "Lonesome Charlie" and "Moody Blue". Won't go near either of the above mentioned items......

How would this concoction work for piping into shells? Would you share your proportions as well?

[Edward J]

For piping into shells:

1000 butter

1000 dark couverture

For slabbing:

1000 butter

500 fondant ( I substitute equal weight of good quality jam)

2000 dark couverture

OR

2500 milk or white couverture.

I just subtract any alcohol weight from the fondant/jam weight

PVC pipes are available at any plumbing supply or home center-type place. They can be easily cut into 30 cm/1 ft lengths.

Tape up one end and put in a acetate sheet liner. Pipe in the ganache, tapping vigoursly or fill in while using the vibrating table. Let harden.

O.K. now, when it comes to slicing I cheat a bit, I have a quasi/sort of "Guitar". This was a garage-sale find, but none-the-less a commercial quality instrument made for slicing cookie dough logs. It is made of cast aluminum and is robust, but only has one (1!!!!) guitar (the musical instrument kind)-type key, that is responsible for ALL the tension on the frame. The wire is one continious piece, threaded through about 50 posts, resulting in about 25 slices. The spacing on this contraption is about 3/8" or 7mm wide. In goes a ganache log, push the top wire strung frame down, remove the slices.

I still have to "paint" on a foot on each slice though. The ganache is firm enough to slice, but if there's no foot, I get "fang marks" from the dipping fork when I slide off after enrobing.

Hope this helps

[Kerry Beal]

For piping into shells:

1000 butter

1000 dark couverture

For slabbing:

1000 butter

500 fondant ( I substitute equal weight of good quality jam)

2000 dark couverture

OR

2500 milk or white couverture.

I just subtract any alcohol weight from the fondant/jam weight

PVC pipes are available at any plumbing supply or home center-type place. They can be easily cut into 30 cm/1 ft lengths.

Tape up one end and put in a acetate sheet liner. Pipe in the ganache, tapping vigoursly or fill in while using the vibrating table. Let harden.

O.K. now, when it comes to slicing I cheat a bit, I have a quasi/sort of "Guitar". This was a garage-sale find, but none-the-less a commercial quality instrument made for slicing cookie dough logs. It is made of cast aluminum and is robust, but only has one (1!!!!) guitar (the musical instrument kind)-type key, that is responsible for ALL the tension on the frame. The wire is one continious piece, threaded through about 50 posts, resulting in about 25 slices. The spacing on this contraption is about 3/8" or 7mm wide. In goes a ganache log, push the top wire strung frame down, remove the slices.

I still have to "paint" on a foot on each slice though. The ganache is firm enough to slice, but if there's no foot, I get "fang marks" from the dipping fork when I slide off after enrobing.

Hope this helps

I'd love to see a picture of your 'guitar'.

[mostlylana]

If you get chocolot's book (Candymaking - see her avatar) - it explains the mazetta well and provides recipes. The only other place I've seen it is all the old professional books that I have. I've seen it for sale (but it's easy to make) at Burke's ingredients I think.

Shelf life of the soft buttercreams is really long - it's got all the sugar from the fondant so lasts almost forever. It will lose it's flavour long before it goes bad.

Thanks so much for the reference Kerry. I've looked at this book before and marked it on my wishlist! It sounds great.

This might be a good topic for the 2010 workshop!

I completely agree!

For piping into shells:

1000 butter

1000 dark couverture

For slabbing:

1000 butter

500 fondant ( I substitute equal weight of good quality jam)

2000 dark couverture

OR

2500 milk or white couverture.

I just subtract any alcohol weight from the fondant/jam weight

PVC pipes are available at any plumbing supply or home center-type place. They can be easily cut into 30 cm/1 ft lengths.

Tape up one end and put in a acetate sheet liner. Pipe in the ganache, tapping vigoursly or fill in while using the vibrating table. Let harden.

O.K. now, when it comes to slicing I cheat a bit, I have a quasi/sort of "Guitar". This was a garage-sale find, but none-the-less a commercial quality instrument made for slicing cookie dough logs. It is made of cast aluminum and is robust, but only has one (1!!!!) guitar (the musical instrument kind)-type key, that is responsible for ALL the tension on the frame. The wire is one continious piece, threaded through about 50 posts, resulting in about 25 slices. The spacing on this contraption is about 3/8" or 7mm wide. In goes a ganache log, push the top wire strung frame down, remove the slices.

I still have to "paint" on a foot on each slice though. The ganache is firm enough to slice, but if there's no foot, I get "fang marks" from the dipping fork when I slide off after enrobing.

Hope this helps

This information is very helpful. Thanks! So your first recipe of butter and couv. is a buttercream? I guess back to my original query - I'm still vague as to what constitutes a 'buttercream'.

[Edward J]

That's a good question. Most would efer to it as a "Butter ganache"

[Kerry Beal]

That's a good question. Most would efer to it as a "Butter ganache"

Yeah, without the fondant - I would consider that a butter ganache. It sets up differently from a softer butter cream that you use for piping. Although with enough butter it could be pretty soft.