Which Did You Like Better? Corton or EMP?

robyn · February 26, 2009

I am trying to decide which restaurant to go to for my husband's birthday (on a Thursday night) when we're in NYC. I have pretty much narrowed it down to Corton or EMP and having a hard time deciding between the 2. So - for those of you who've dined at both - which did you like better?

In terms of our other dining places - we will probably go to l'Atelier Wednesday night (it's in our hotel and we'll be tired from our trip) - and Blue Hill on Sunday (it's open on Sunday - which is unusual). And that's the tentative outline so far. Robyn

Sneakeater · February 26, 2009

Corton. But it's REALLY close.

robyn · March 4, 2009

Corton. But it's REALLY close.
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I knew it was really close - that's why I asked the question :biggrin: .

You know what - I may do both. I assume that Corton is the hotter ticket - so it's better to do it on Thursday (which is my husband's birthday) as opposed to Friday (which is when we will do EMP). Yes? Robyn

LPShanet · March 4, 2009

Corton. But it's REALLY close.
←
I knew it was really close - that's why I asked the question .
You know what - I may do both. I assume that Corton is the hotter ticket - so it's better to do it on Thursday (which is my husband's birthday) as opposed to Friday (which is when we will do EMP). Yes? Robyn
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I'm with Sneak...Corton by a smidge. The flavors were more concentrated somehow. But I'm always in favor of doing both whenever there's a question. It sounds like you have a great lineup there!

robyn · March 5, 2009

Corton. But it's REALLY close.
←
I knew it was really close - that's why I asked the question .
You know what - I may do both. I assume that Corton is the hotter ticket - so it's better to do it on Thursday (which is my husband's birthday) as opposed to Friday (which is when we will do EMP). Yes? Robyn
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I'm with Sneak...Corton by a smidge. The flavors were more concentrated somehow. But I'm always in favor of doing both whenever there's a question. It sounds like you have a great lineup there!
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I'm getting there :smile: . Here are the tentative plans. We're arriving late Wednesday afternoon. Staying at the Four Seasons. We'll be tired - and will eat at L'Atelier. With "small plates" we can eat as little or as much as we care to. Corton on Thursday. EMP on Friday. Both big deal meals (in terms of volume) - but I can't do both except to put them back to back. Jean Georges for Saturday lunch (some friends are coming in from out of town to see us - and lunch is more convenient than dinner - they'll have a 2+ hour drive to get home). JG serves a lot of fish - so I think we can have an excellent but light lunch. Blue Hill on Sunday night (one of the few places open Sunday night). That will be about it in terms of plans except for some scrambled eggs and nova or salami pancake style at a deli :smile: .

I like where I live a lot. But although we have world class golf (and things like world class medical facilities - Mayo Clinic - for that matter) - we have no world class food. Some very good food (for the first time - we have a local restaurant that is a semi-finalist for a James Beard award this year). But nothing like we can get in larger cities. Don't have Jewish delis where we live either.

I talked with my husband about it. And he thinks the schedule looks fine. He can eat more than I can - and worst comes to worst - I will order a meal and eat only a part if I start feeling stuffed. From what I have read in terms of dining in New York these days - there is not a lot to gain by going from the higher end to the upper middle of the restaurant chain. The city is "on sale". I never would have thought I'd see buy 2 nights/get 1 free at the FS in New York in the spring.

Anyway - I promise to spend a lot of money in New York if you guys in New York come down and spend some dollars here in Florida. We are not exactly doing too well these days either in terms of the hospitality industry. Robyn

sickchangeup · March 5, 2009

If you steer away from tasting menus, then food at Corton and EMP should not leave you stuffed at all. Both have lighter options as well. And a 2 course lunch at JG will be light as well if you chose not to supplement. I usually tell our friends that 2 is a very light lunch, 3 is a regular lunch and 4 courses is a large lunch. I'm guessing you'll leave Katz's far fuller than any of the places above.

Even more so than being on "discount", or having tons of official specials (which really haven't reached the likes of Atelier, Corton & EMP - save lunch perhaps at the latter) it is the increased focus and appreciation for pleasing the customer that I've really come to enjoy in this recession (in a silver lining sort of way - that and it's FAR easier to get reservations). I just got back from a quick dinner at a local Indian chain, and the place has been cleaned up and their service is much more appreciative. Even the cooks appear to be focusing more on turning out the food as best as they can. Restaurants that aren't doing this simply have no chance IMO, and many realize just that. The consumer who can still afford to eat out is gaining big time from this.

Speaking of which, staying at the FS and eating at Atelier.. I couldn't help notice the absence of Per Se on the list. If you can afford it, they are just eons past any other restaurant in the city right now (IMO), they seem to be at their all time best. And it's not hard at all to get a resy either.

Sneakeater · March 5, 2009

Corton. But it's REALLY close.
←
I knew it was really close - that's why I asked the question .
You know what - I may do both. I assume that Corton is the hotter ticket - so it's better to do it on Thursday (which is my husband's birthday) as opposed to Friday (which is when we will do EMP). Yes? Robyn
←

Yes -- although I'm afraid you're going to find that Thursday isn't that different from Friday. Call soon.

LPShanet · March 5, 2009

If you steer away from tasting menus, then food at Corton and EMP should not leave you stuffed at all. Both have lighter options as well. And a 2 course lunch at JG will be light as well if you chose not to supplement. I usually tell our friends that 2 is a very light lunch, 3 is a regular lunch and 4 courses is a large lunch. I'm guessing you'll leave Katz's far fuller than any of the places above.
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Alternately, you could just think of it like an athletic event, and do all tasting menus, and just "recover" later. Just like running a marathon, you have to push through the fullness wall...

robyn · March 5, 2009

If you steer away from tasting menus, then food at Corton and EMP should not leave you stuffed at all. Both have lighter options as well.   And a 2 course lunch at JG will be light as well if you chose not to supplement. I usually tell our friends that 2 is a very light lunch, 3 is a regular lunch and 4 courses is a large lunch.   I'm guessing you'll leave Katz's far fuller than any of the places above.
Even more so than being on "discount", or having tons of official specials (which really haven't reached the likes of Atelier, Corton & EMP - save lunch perhaps at the latter) it is the increased focus and appreciation for pleasing the customer that I've really come to enjoy in this recession (in a silver lining sort of way - that and it's FAR easier to get reservations). I just got back from a quick dinner at a local Indian chain, and the place has been cleaned up and their service is much more appreciative. Even the cooks appear to be focusing more on turning out the food as best as they can.   Restaurants that aren't doing this simply have no chance IMO, and many realize just that.   The consumer who can still afford to eat out is gaining big time from this.
Speaking of which, staying at the FS and eating at Atelier.. I couldn't help notice the absence of Per Se on the list.   If you can afford it, they are just eons past any other restaurant in the city right now (IMO), they seem to be at their all time best. And it's not hard at all to get a resy either.
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We went to Per Se our last trip. Meal was pretty good. My husband hated the wine service (I don't drink wine). Hated eating dinner at 5:30. So it's time to try some new places. Especially since - if I recall correctly - it is now tasting menu only - take it or leave it (which it wasn't when we dined there). I generally like menus which are choices of 2-3-4-5 (however many you want) courses. Robyn

Edited March 5, 2009 by robyn (log)

robyn · March 5, 2009

If you steer away from tasting menus, then food at Corton and EMP should not leave you stuffed at all. Both have lighter options as well. And a 2 course lunch at JG will be light as well if you chose not to supplement. I usually tell our friends that 2 is a very light lunch, 3 is a regular lunch and 4 courses is a large lunch. I'm guessing you'll leave Katz's far fuller than any of the places above.
←
Alternately, you could just think of it like an athletic event, and do all tasting menus, and just "recover" later. Just like running a marathon, you have to push through the fullness wall...
←

That would make me sick as a dog - and probably ruin our trip. I will sample some here and there. Hope to have some great food - and a good trip. Robyn

robyn · March 5, 2009

Corton. But it's REALLY close.
←
I knew it was really close - that's why I asked the question .
You know what - I may do both. I assume that Corton is the hotter ticket - so it's better to do it on Thursday (which is my husband's birthday) as opposed to Friday (which is when we will do EMP). Yes? Robyn
←
Yes -- although I'm afraid you're going to find that Thursday isn't that different from Friday. Call soon.
←

I plan to call the hotel concierge tomorrow - and give them the lineup. Robyn

Pan · March 6, 2009

Robyn, you might consider Degustation, as well. Have a look at my meal report. I'd describe it as terrific modern tapas. Full disclosure: I haven't been to Corton but was very much underwhelmed by EMP when my brother and I took our parents out on the occasion of my father's birthday in December, 2007 (so consider the passage of time, for what it's worth). My brother and I also found lunch at Jean-Georges to be fairly priced but really just a good 1 1/2 star meal.

robyn · March 8, 2009

Robyn, you might consider Degustation, as well. Have a look at my meal report. I'd describe it as terrific modern tapas. Full disclosure: I haven't been to Corton but was very much underwhelmed by EMP when my brother and I took our parents out on the occasion of my father's birthday in December, 2007 (so consider the passage of time, for what it's worth). My brother and I also found lunch at Jean-Georges to be fairly priced but really just a good 1 1/2 star meal.
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Hi Pan - I took a look at Degustation. I wish it was open for lunch - because it is in/near a neighborhood where we will be looking for places to catch lunch. But I will keep it in mind. I am trying to hook up for dinner with some family members who live in the general area - and will suggest it if they want to get together.

I am surprised you didn't like EMP - because almost everyone else here seems to think it's quite good. What didn't you like about it?

I wasn't overwhelmed the only time we had dinner at JG - almost 10 years ago. But the menu seems more interesting than the lunch menu at 57 in our hotel. It is an amazing bargain (a little more than we'd pay at a high end chain restaurant for lunch here in Jacksonville). The surroundings are pleasant (we'll be meeting with old friends - and just want time/space to catch up) - and it is conveniently located a short distance from the hotel - and MOMA (we'll probably go to MOMA after lunch). I suspect there is perhaps better/more interesting food in the neighborhood. But this meal is with my husband's old college roommate - who he hasn't seen in almost 30 years. The food is almost an afterthought. Above all - I don't want to get into one of those no-reservations - wait on line - tables elbow-to-elbow - and we're trying to turn our tables over 2-3 times during lunch situations for this get-together. Considering what I'm trying to do - I think it's a good choice. Do you disagree? Robyn

P.S. You've been around long enough to have heard the sequel to our original JG dinner - but perhaps others haven't. About 2-3 years after our original meal - we decided to give it a second chance - on our 30th anniverary - Monday 9/10/2001. We made a reservation on the patio. It rained like cats and dogs that night. We were offered a small table in the bar - but - it being our anniversary - we declined - and walked out. Then we thought of ADNY - just a few blocks away (back then a very hot ticket). We walked in without a reservation - got the single remaining table - and had a memorable meal. We all know what happened the next morning. So I guess this is our second chance to give JG a second chance. Quite frankly - after our 9/11 experience - and recent events in places like Mumbai - going to New York (and other big cities around the world) still makes me a little nervous. But I refuse to stay home until I am too old and feeble to travel.

Sneakeater · March 8, 2009

Degustation isn't that great for a get-together with a lot of people, since it features exclusively counter seating, which inhibits conversation among large groups. (OTOH, since it's a family get-together, maybe that's what you want.)

robyn · March 8, 2009

Degustation isn't that great for a get-together with a lot of people, since it features exclusively counter seating, which inhibits conversation among large groups. (OTOH, since it's a family get-together, maybe that's what you want.)
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Thanks for the information. I happen to like my family members in New York. Especially one cousin who managed to get us a great table at Nobu on a Friday night ages ago for all of us cousins - about 12 of us - when we were in town for my late grandmother's 100th birthday. Didn't hurt that he was the dentist for the chef's children :wink: . The last time we got together - I think it was 2004 for a Bar Mitzvah - we had a dim sum lunch at Shun Lee West for a party of about 15 (the restaurant was relatively close to the synagogue) - and it did a very nice job for us. Robyn

Pan · March 9, 2009

[...]I am surprised you didn't like EMP - because almost everyone else here seems to think it's quite good. What didn't you like about it?
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Look starting here. The main problem was the service, but the food was also not good enough for the price we paid, in our opinions.

I wasn't overwhelmed the only time we had dinner at JG - almost 10 years ago. But the menu seems more interesting than the lunch menu at 57 in our hotel. It is an amazing bargain (a little more than we'd pay at a high end chain restaurant for lunch here in Jacksonville). The surroundings are pleasant (we'll be meeting with old friends - and just want time/space to catch up) - and it is conveniently located a short distance from the hotel - and MOMA (we'll probably go to MOMA after lunch). I suspect there is perhaps better/more interesting food in the neighborhood. But this meal is with my husband's old college roommate - who he hasn't seen in almost 30 years. The food is almost an afterthought. Above all - I don't want to get into one of those no-reservations - wait on line - tables elbow-to-elbow - and we're trying to turn our tables over 2-3 times during lunch situations for this get-together. Considering what I'm trying to do - I think it's a good choice. Do you disagree? Robyn
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No, I don't disagree. It's a fair value and a nice room, and you'll have excellent service. My sense is that the best dishes are the most traditional and least fusiony ones, but some other people disagree.

I agree with Sneakeater that Degustation is best as a meal for a couple or possibly three people, not a larger group, because you'll all be seated at a counter.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Pan (log)

robyn · March 9, 2009

Hi Pan - Thanks for the link to the EMP thread and what you wrote in it. Now you have me thinking - kind of like when an optometrist is fitting you for glasses - which looks better - this one or that one :smile: .

And since we are still more than a month away from the date when most of these places will take reservations - I am looking around.

EMP didn't seem to be at the top of anyone's list. So perhaps I should "86" it? Was browsing through some NYC food stuff this afternoon - and Daniel hit me. We have never been there - it has has gotten good media reviews (mixed on this forum) - and my husband is the kind of guy who thinks fine dining goes with a suit and tie.

So if I could change the question a bit - which do you think is better - EMP or Daniel? We have been to Cafe Boulud in Palm Beach a few times and liked it a lot. Didn't much like Cafe Boulud in NYC (so-so food - tables elbow-to-elbow). But Daniel should be on a different planet than those restaurants.

FWIW - in terms of price to value ratio - since our last big trip was to Paris - the prices in NYC seem like a joke. We took 2 friends to dinner at a 3 star in Paris - and wound up spending $2000 for 4 people without big deal wine. So a 3 course dinner at Daniel for $108 seems like a real bargain (i.e., easily wiithin our budget).

My husband likes classical French food - and doesn't mind a bit of formality. His favorite meal in Paris was at Guy Savoy. And although I have read reports here about varying degrees of service at a place like Daniel - I suspect we would get pretty good service on a weekday if we booked through the concierge desk at our hotel.

Just as an aside - Daniel (based on what I've read here) sounds very much like Guy Savoy - where a majority of the diners are "regulars". When we dined at Guy Savoy - we were the only people in the room who didn't dine there at least once every week or so.

Anyway - perhaps I will substitute Daniel for EMP. Any comments would be appreciated. Robyn

Pan · March 10, 2009

I've never been to Daniel, so I can't help you decide.

Sneakeater · March 10, 2009

EMP is better than Daniel. I feel comfortable saying that rather definitively.

And -- unlike most people on boards like this -- I LIKE Daniel.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Sneakeater (log)

Eatmywords · March 10, 2009

My husband likes classical French food - and doesn't mind a bit of formality.
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Why not La Grenouille or Le Veau D’or if he loves classic so much? Make the guy happy.

LPShanet · March 10, 2009

EMP is better than Daniel. I feel comfortable saying that rather definitively.
And -- unlike most people on boards like this -- I LIKE Daniel.
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As seems to be the case quite often, I'm in agreement with Sneak.

I like Daniel quite a bit, but I've never been blown away by a meal there. They didn't do anything at all wrong any of the times I've been there, but there was no "wow factor" for me.

Although it's seemingly less formal than the ones you're considering, you might want to include L'atelier de Joel Robuchon in your consideration. Although there is some disagreement, I think the food there is more exciting in many ways than Daniel or EMP. The lack of formality is more theme and pretense. In actuality, it's a serious meal.

robyn · March 10, 2009

My husband likes classical French food - and doesn't mind a bit of formality.
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Why not La Grenouille or Le Veau D’or if he loves classic so much? Make the guy happy.
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Perhaps I misspoke. Our idea of "classical French" is Robuchon or Senderens - more 80's than 50's or 60's. FWIW - Le Veau D'Or was over the hill IMO the only time we dined there - which must have been 15-20 years ago. I understand La Grenouille has been "refreshed" - and looks prettier than ever. But I don't much care for the menu. Robyn

robyn · March 10, 2009

EMP is better than Daniel. I feel comfortable saying that rather definitively.
And -- unlike most people on boards like this -- I LIKE Daniel.
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As seems to be the case quite often, I'm in agreement with Sneak.
I like Daniel quite a bit, but I've never been blown away by a meal there. They didn't do anything at all wrong any of the times I've been there, but there was no "wow factor" for me.
Although it's seemingly less formal than the ones you're considering, you might want to include L'atelier de Joel Robuchon in your consideration. Although there is some disagreement, I think the food there is more exciting in many ways than Daniel or EMP. The lack of formality is more theme and pretense. In actuality, it's a serious meal.
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We're staying at the Four Seasons and definitely dining at L'Atelier the night we arrive. It's a good match. We'll be tired - won't feel like going out - and L'Atelier looks like fun with really good food.

There is another wrinkle in our plans. We were planning to go to dinner Sunday night with friends at Blue Hill. But since the Mrs. has to go to work Monday morning - they suggested brunch and some afternoon sightseeing. Which is fine by me. But if we have Sunday brunch - no way I can do another big deal meal at dinner.

I have really enjoyed "locavore" restaurants in other cities - and was looking forward to Blue Hill. How about Blue Hill instead of EMP? Seems that Corton and EMP are somewhat similar in terms of food - and Blue Hill would be a nice change of pace.

Then lunch at Jean Georges on Saturday (yet another change of pace). And we are thinking of doing Sunday brunch at Aquavit (something totally different). Our friends haven't been to Aquavit - but we dined at the "outpost" in Minneapolis before it closed and enjoyed it. And the Sunday brunch (a buffet) seems pretty authentic.

Anyway - I know that EMP and Blue Hill are totally different kinds of restaurants - but I'm inclined to do Blue Hill instead of EMP because Corton and EMP are similar - and no one here has listed EMP as a favorite over Corton. Any thoughts about these plans would be welcome. Robyn

Sneakeater · March 10, 2009

As much as I don't like Blue Hill much personally, I think that's an excellent plan. I think you're right that with limited time during this visit Corton and EMP would be potentially redundant. You'd be better off visiting a completely different, highly regarded place like Blue Hill.

(Also, I really want to hear what you think of it.)

robyn · March 10, 2009

As much as I don't like Blue Hill much personally, I think that's an excellent plan. I think you're right that with limited time during this visit Corton and EMP would be potentially redundant. You'd be better off visiting a completely different, highly regarded place like Blue Hill.
(Also, I really want to hear what you think of it.)
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I am up to my eyeballs in paperwork - and a quick search didn't turn up any comments you had made here about Blue Hill. In a nutshell - why didn't you like it?

I am thinking it would be like the New York equivalent of Bacchanalia in Atlanta - and similar places I have dined at elsewhere. Robyn

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