Hand and Flowers

[david goodfellow]

I think The Hand and Flowers in Marlow should be awarded a star,other than the michelin one that they already hold.

A two course lunch for Ten English Pounds!

Well this surely must be the best value in the UK.

You can add a pudding for a further Three Pounds Fifty.

I think I will pack my bags and move down south. What with the property market collapse and prices like these I am assured of a multitude of top notch dining options

at prices never seen before

It was on my visit list last month,with an overnight stay and a meal at The Goose at Britwell Salome however they lost there star(The Goose) so I had a change of plan.

Has anyone been?

[Gary Marshall]

no, i read about this offer in one of the mags, they reckon it's the cheapest 1* lunch around and they've been full ever since they launched it so good for them.

btw matt tomkinson who won the star for the goose has won another at the montague in beaulieu.

[david goodfellow]

no, i read about this offer in one of the mags, they reckon it's the cheapest 1* lunch around and they've been full ever since they launched it so good for them.

btw matt tomkinson who won the star for the goose has won another at the montague in beaulieu.

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Good morning Gary.Thanks for the heads up on Matt Tomkinson

The lunch deal, when you think about it is stunning,well done, they deserve to be pulled out of the place

Just proves that the money is still out there,may be not so much of it ,but sufficient to

get people out of their own kitchens for a bit of a treat

Places need people,and even if no money was made out of this deal(which I very much doubt) they would certainly see an increase in other business.

There will be a massive rethink on "dead lunch and evening slots" testing all involved in the industry to try to get bums on seats.

[Gary Marshall]

yes in an industry crazed by focus on 60 - 70% gp the idea of cash margin and bums on seats might become the new mantra.

Obviously if you have decent chefs then you should be able to produce food at an attractive price point than if you're just messing about with fillets of this and that, hopefully the places that deserve to survive, doing things properly, will.

[david goodfellow]

Every decent chef knows how to knock up something decent from humble ingredients.

Now move up a notch and some of the top guys can "pull a rabbit out of a hat" with the very same stuff.

These may be tough times for restaurants,but at these prices the dining public really have something to shout about.

Come on chefs entice us out of our homes,let,s see what your made of.

"Cooking does not get much tougher than this"

[Bernice Hurst]

Has anyone been?

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[cachan]

The chef is a 1* chef and the restaurant is a 1* restaurant, but this 1* award would be for the food served ALC. A £10 lunch would be of simpler dishes and cheaper ingredients, so would it qualify as a 1* meal ? I think it would just be a good value meal.

[david goodfellow]

The chef is a 1* chef and the restaurant is a 1* restaurant, but this 1* award would be for the food served ALC. A £10 lunch would be of simpler dishes and cheaper ingredients, so would it qualify as a 1* meal ? I think it would just be a good value meal.

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Point taken, however the food comes from the same kitchen,with presumably, Tom Kerridge and assists doing the cooking except using cheaper ingredients

As pointed out above,some chefs have the ability to put a bit of magic into their food,thats what makes them special.

[Gary Marshall]

that's a big can of worms, depends i suppose on whether , talking generically you think a 1* meal is so rated because of the skill of the kitchen or the luxury of the ingredients used.

a good kitchen can make a lot of lesser ingredients eg arbutus make about 3 dishes from 1 rabbit, ramsay used to do pork belly at RHR (and maybe stil does).

for me the cut used is less important, i like the skill/imagination. I once had a confitted duck leg stuffed into a duck neck with chicken hearts and crispy chicken skin at anthony's, ingredient cost not a lot.

[david goodfellow]

that's a big can of worms, depends i suppose on whether , talking generically you think a 1* meal is so rated because of the skill of the kitchen or the luxury of the ingredients used.

a good kitchen can make a lot of lesser ingredients eg arbutus make about 3 dishes from 1 rabbit, ramsay used to do pork belly at RHR (and maybe stil does).

for me the cut used is less important, i like the skill/imagination. I once had a confitted duck leg stuffed into a duck neck with chicken hearts and crispy chicken skin at anthony's, ingredient cost not a lot.

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When I browse some menus I tend to go for expensive,hard to cook at home dishes,especially when I,m paying top dollar

However,I have(like you) eaten some stunning dishes from cheap cuts.

Todays menu

Leek and chive velute or Pork Pie

Bavette Steak or Coq au vin

Lemon Posset or Chocolate tart.

So sorry fully booked!

Need to book two or three days in advance

[food1]

Well, I cannot understand why eateries of this caliber feel they have to give away their food. It sends out such mixed messages. Even if they are running it as a loss leader, and you have to think why, its selling themselves way short. What happens when they stop doing this offer? Are all these diners going to run back and pay double, treble the prices? Don't think so. Its great to be packed to the rafters but whats the point if you are making f..k all money. At ten quid ahead they can't be. They also run the risk of folk not bothering coming back on an evening, when they can dine on a lunch for such 'fantastic' prices. These sort of marketing ploys cannot last and as I say could inflict more harm than good.

I completely agree with comments made by MPW, channel your energies into looking after your loyal customer base. Forget gimmicks, do what you do best.

[erica graham]

We've been running a £10 lunch for 2 years now, with no choice, changing daily. We use it minimse waste, to help motivate staff (ie allowing young chefs to see their ideas on plates) and its much easier to keep motivated when you are busy. We have a large retired population around us and a significant pub dining culture (though its actually not that cheap), we need to encourage guests to 1) trust us (ie we aren't going to serve rubbish, just cheaper cuts with the same skills and expertise) 2) to not feel intimidated by a "fine dining" restaurant, so to try us at no financial risk (and yes they do come back) 3)Use us beyond just special occasions.

And whilst we are busy at lunchtime, giving the restaurant a great atmosphere (nothing worse than eating alone no matter how good the food) we on avarage only serve 20% of guests the £10 lunch menu.

Eateries of any caliber have to be financially viable and that's not always that easy in the countryside. If we make a £10 offering and only make £2.50 profit we've still made £2.50 more than nothing, and with no part time staff and standing costs that are generated full or empty, we feel that we are offering a customer service that longer term will be (and has been) appreciated.

The negative is that perhaps the perception within the industry and possibly "the guides" is that you are cutting corners or diluting your offering, but you win no accolades closed and ulitmately the skills you have to learn in the kitchen ie buying whole carcasses direct from farms and using absolutely everything are in reality the skills that all real chefs should possess.

[Gary Marshall]

i think there is a world of difference between a good value offer eg a £10 lunch than a buy one get one half price etc offer which i do think devalues your offer.

when we had the pub we were always pestered by the papers wanting to do lunch for £5 etc and we never did it, as we couldn't offer a menu at that price without serious disruption and we weren't going to give our alc away. I don't think the bargain hunters do come back either .

However we didn't open midweek lunch and i reckon there is a sizable demographic there of retired/ladies who lunch/ young mothers etc and in serving them a decent priced lunch you are not cannabalising your evening trade, erica's other points about lunch also being spot on to my mind.

(btw food1 i think your lunch policy eminently sensible way of running it too )

[food1]

Exactly Gary! To be fair to Erica etc, if it works for you, then who am I to argue. Looking at my set up though, it just wouldn't be worth our while, even if we were full.

With ref to the H & F, I just cannot understand how it will benefit their business model. After all it is a MICHELIN STARRED pub/ restaurant, slap bang in the very wealthy stock broker belt of London. On a personal note, if im visting a michelin starred restaurant, I want to see what the chef can really do. Whats the point in going to these places otherwise? To my reckoning they are competeing in a market that they don't need to be in. If all I want to spend is a tenner, then I would go to one of the zillions of cafe bars etc. I do not believe for one minute that they are struggling for trade to the extent they have to give their grub away unless somebody tells me otherwise. I don't mean to sound rude or arrogant to people who do offer these sort of deals but a michelin starred gaff, it doesn't make sense.

[JudyB]

With ref to the H & F, I just cannot understand how it will benefit their business model. After all it is a MICHELIN STARRED pub/ restaurant, slap bang in the very wealthy stock broker belt of London. On a personal note, if im visting a michelin starred restaurant, I want to see what the chef can really do. Whats the point in going to these places otherwise? To my reckoning they are competeing in a market that they don't need to be in. If all I want to spend is a tenner, then I  would go to one of the zillions of cafe bars etc. I do not believe for one minute that they are struggling for trade to the extent they have to give their grub away unless somebody tells me otherwise. I don't mean to sound rude or arrogant to people who do offer these sort of deals but a michelin starred gaff, it doesn't make sense.

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I don't know for certain, but in the current climate Marlow is probably not the best of locations for casual trade. Remember that at least two of AWT's pubs were not that far away and at the right time of year The Lamb at least was always busy.

At this time of year I think that trade would be down anyway, and a full-blown Michelin starred lunch may be deemed excessive, while a £10 special would not be.

There may also be an element, as Erica says, of this pulling in more people who would come back and pay full price.

[david goodfellow]

We've been running a £10 lunch for 2 years now, with no choice, changing daily. We use it minimse waste, to help motivate staff (ie allowing young chefs to see their ideas on plates) and its much easier to keep motivated when you are busy. We have a large retired population around us and a significant pub dining culture (though its actually not that cheap), we need to encourage guests to 1) trust us (ie we aren't going to serve rubbish, just cheaper cuts with the same skills and expertise) 2) to not feel intimidated by a "fine dining" restaurant, so to try us at no financial risk (and yes they do come back) 3)Use us beyond just special occasions.

And whilst we are busy at lunchtime, giving the restaurant a great atmosphere (nothing worse than eating alone no matter how good the food) we on avarage only serve 20% of guests the £10 lunch menu.

Eateries of any caliber have to be financially viable and that's not always that easy in the countryside. If we make a £10 offering and only make £2.50 profit we've still made £2.50 more than nothing, and with no part time staff and standing costs that are generated full or empty, we feel that we are offering a customer service that longer term will be (and has been) appreciated.

The negative is that perhaps the perception within the industry and possibly "the guides" is that you are cutting corners or diluting your offering, but you win no accolades closed and ulitmately the skills you have to learn in the kitchen ie buying whole carcasses direct from farms and using absolutely everything are in reality the skills that all real chefs should possess.

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Hi Erica just visited your website.I like it a lot ,especially the link to your suppliers

I totally agree with your comments above,two years is without doubt proof positive that it works for you.

I am not in the hospitality industry but if I was,and given the nations economic plight I would try anything possible to get bums on seats.

It will be interesting to see how long the Hand and Flowers run their offer.

[food1]

Don't disagree with your comments at all Judy. Im just about astute enough to realise that the H&F is operating a pure marketing ploy. Its the carrot and the stick tool. I don't believe for one minute its anything more than to entice people in and then show what they are really about. Nothing wrong with that at all. I don't understand though just what people really think they are going to get for ten pounds in a michelin starred restaurant and will it really do the place justice? I don't think so. Im all for giving diners the best value for money but you've got to draw the line somewhere, otherwise what do you stand for? I don't believe that H&F should be confused with how a local, neighbourhood restaurant goes about its business and that it is all to do with the econmic downturn. There again I may be completely wrong

[malcolmwilliamson]

Further evidence in last Saturday's Guardian that these are halcyon times for eating lunch in Oxfordshire.

[Gary Marshall]

Im just about astute enough to realise that the H&F is operating a pure marketing ploy. Its the carrot and the stick tool. I don't believe for one minute its anything more than to entice people in and then show what they are really about. Nothing wrong with that at all.

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we ran an early bird for precisely that reason, i didn't like to do it but knew if we could just get them through the door we'd keep them.

[david goodfellow]

Further evidence in last Saturday's Guardian that these are halcyon times for eating lunch in Oxfordshire.

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Good post Malcolm hope you live close enough to take advantage.

Sounds like terrific food.

[david goodfellow]

Has anybody been yet? (H&F)

Can't wait to read a review

There must be someone out there who can post one.

[food1]

Why don't you just go yourself and let us all know what a spectacular meal you had for a tenner.

[david goodfellow]

Why don't you just go yourself and let us all know what a spectacular meal you had for a tenner. 

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According to google maps its 144 miles away. If it were closer I would have been by now

Perhaps I should dine at your place,do tell us the name, if its close perhaps we will dine with you.

[food1]

Edited February 19, 2009 by food1 (log)

[david goodfellow]

Artisan Restaurant, Hessle, East Yorks. www.artisanrestaurant.com. Not open for lunch, unless its for a party of six or more. If you look at site you may (or may not) understand why.

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Hello Richard.of course I understand why you don,t open for lunch.

Sixteen covers is intimate indeed,and there is no way that you could make a low priced meal deal work,you admitted this yourself.Indeed I think that it would harm your business.

However given the scale and layout of other establishments its obviously worth a punt for them.

On a more positive note I like the look of your food, but your still over 110 miles away perhaps when I go to The Star at Harome I,ll call by.

Hopefully others who visit your website will put you on their visit list.