Michelin NYC 2009 Rankings

[Sneakeater]

Bouley

[oakapple]

Grub Street had a post late yesterday about a Craig's List ad by a "Michelin Star Chef" who is purportedly opening a seafood restaurant in SoHo. The speculation is that it could be Micheal Psilakis.

This isn't the first time I've seen CL ads where Michelin stars were prominently cited, either as a lure (to make applicants feel the job is important) or as a requirement (describing the level of experience the employer is looking for). Whatever we may think of the Michelin stars, it's clear to me that people in the industry take them seriously. It is considered a major feather in one's cap to have earned a star, or to have worked at a restaurant that had one.

Edited December 13, 2008 by oakapple (log)

[Timh]

As a classically trained chef, I believe that the rosets are the highest acknowledgment our industry offers, as Michelin is respected worldwide. NYT is great for New Yorkers, and those who care what happens in NY, but Michelin carries weight world wide.

[LPShanet]

As a classically trained chef, I believe that the rosets are the highest acknowledgment our industry offers, as Michelin is respected worldwide. NYT is great for New Yorkers, and those who care what happens in NY, but Michelin carries weight world wide.

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For better or for worse, it's one of the few ways we have to compare restaurants across international lines. It's the only respected agency that rates restaurants on multiple continents with the same supposed standards.

[Sneakeater]

Key word: "supposed".

Anyone who goes to a NYC three-star thinking it's going to resemble a Paris three-star is going to be very disappointed.

[oakapple]

Anyone who goes to a NYC three-star thinking it's going to resemble a Paris three-star is going to be very disappointed.

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I haven't actually heard about any significant number of Parisians who proceeded on that assumption, and were disappointed. Edited December 17, 2008 by oakapple (log)

[Sneakeater]

Honestly, have you heard of Parisians proceeding on that assumption and feeling one way or another?

[oakapple]

Honestly, have you heard of Parisians proceeding on that assumption and feeling one way or another?

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Honestly, no. I've read a lot of critiques of the NY Guide, but they're all from people who have deep, independent knowledge of the NYC restaurant scene—that is, people who don't actually need a guide.

So whenever I read that, I always wonder whether any significant number of folks who actually relied on the guide were disappointed. I figure that if the guide's target audience found it misleading, you'd eventually see a story about it.

Edited December 17, 2008 by oakapple (log)

[KennethT]

Key word:  "supposed".

Anyone who goes to a NYC three-star thinking it's going to resemble a Paris three-star is going to be very disappointed.

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I definitley agree... the NYC 3* restaurants do not compare to most of the 3* in Paris or France in general. I, myself, am usually disappointed with NYC 3* places, and I live there!

[jdanton]

Key word:  "supposed".

Anyone who goes to a NYC three-star thinking it's going to resemble a Paris three-star is going to be very disappointed.

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I definitley agree... the NYC 3* restaurants do not compare to most of the 3* in Paris or France in general. I, myself, am usually disappointed with NYC 3* places, and I live there!

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I don't necessarily agree--we visited Per Se and L'Arpege within two months of each other, and I'd have to give the nod to Per Se. I think especially at the 3* level, roses are fairly comparable across continents. There are levels within 3*.

[sethd]

Key word:  "supposed".

Anyone who goes to a NYC three-star thinking it's going to resemble a Paris three-star is going to be very disappointed.

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I definitley agree... the NYC 3* restaurants do not compare to most of the 3* in Paris or France in general. I, myself, am usually disappointed with NYC 3* places, and I live there!

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I don't necessarily agree--we visited Per Se and L'Arpege within two months of each other, and I'd have to give the nod to Per Se. I think especially at the 3* level, roses are fairly comparable across continents. There are levels within 3*.

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I disagree. I have eaten multiple times at both Per Se (9) and L'arpgege (4) and there is no comparision. Arpege is better. I recently had a discussion with one of the managers at Per Se concerning three star restaurants in New York and Paris. He admitted that he thought the restaurants in paris were superior as well.

[DutchMuse]

IMHO, most Michelin 3* in NYC would not warrant 3 * in Paris; maybe 2, some one. FWIW, I never thought Babbo deserved even one *, nor did Craft. Craft is a lovely expression of a certain type of cooking, but I don't think it deserves a *.

But some of the places Michelin has anointed in NYC; I just don't get it. Agree that Le Bernardin, Per Se, Jean-Georges are tops in NYC, but then there are surprising omissions that have been well discussed here such as EMP. But tops in NYC doesn't necessarily equal something like Taillevant or Troisgros (of course not in Paris but in Roanne). There's no restaurant in NYC that would approximate those places.

[ulterior epicure]

IMHO, most Michelin 3* in NYC would not warrant 3 * in Paris; maybe 2, some one.  FWIW, I never thought Babbo deserved even one *, nor did Craft.  Craft is a lovely expression of a certain type of cooking, but I don't think it deserves a *.

I'm just curious what everyone's standard for a "*" (or ** or ***) is, exactly.

FYI, here's Michelin's own stated standard.

"Every restaurant listed in the Michelin Guide is recommended by our team of professional inspectors. The ones listed below have earned stars that reflect their exceptional culinary achievements, regardless of cuisine style. Stars represent only what is on the plate. They do not take into consideration interior decoration, service quality or table settings."

Whether they follow this standard or not is another issue.

NOW do you think Babbo and Craft deserve(d) one Michelin star?

[sickchangeup]

FYI, here's Michelin's own stated standard.

"Every restaurant listed in the Michelin Guide is recommended by our team of professional inspectors. The ones listed below have earned stars that reflect their exceptional culinary achievements, regardless of cuisine style. Stars represent only what is on the plate. They do not take into consideration interior decoration, service quality or table settings."

NOW do you think Babbo and Craft deserve(d) one Michelin star?

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That distinction is an important point/question to raise, and in the case of Craft, the answer IMO is no. Craft is about the best ingredients, cooked perfectly, then (to simplify) put in a staub dish and plopped into the middle of the table. Taken literally, nothing arrives on your plate, ever.

Compare that, with say... something insanely french like the Bocuse D'or dishes. It's assumed that the best ingredients cooked perfectly is simply where you must begin in order to even have a spot on the field, but to end there and just plop down the ingredients on the table at that point without further ado seems puzzling at best from that perspective. I love the place myself, but it's not worth breaking out the town bell (in the original spirit of the Michellin Guides) and crying "Over here! They know how to source and prepare their ingredients properly! You've got to see this!"

Or compare what it takes to get to "what's on the plate" when you see perfectly roasted scallops in a staub dish on the one hand, and the now popular blog entries of "I spent 10 hours cooking, and only made 1 skimpy dish" that you get when people cook food from Per Se & Alinea on the other.

[oakapple]

That distinction is an important point/question to raise, and in the case of Craft, the answer IMO is no.  Craft is about the best ingredients, cooked perfectly, then (to simplify) put in a staub dish and plopped into the middle of the table.  Taken literally, nothing arrives on your plate, ever.

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That strikes me as an awfully literal—even anal-retentive—reason to disqualify Craft, assuming one agrees that it's "about the best ingredients cooked perfectly."

[oakapple]

But tops in NYC doesn't necessarily equal something like Taillevant or Troisgros (of course not in Paris but in Roanne).  There's no restaurant in NYC that would approximate those places.

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Here's the funny thing. If the Michelin Guide had given no NYC restaurant its top ranking, there would be just as many posts — correction: there would be far more posts — complaining that the Frenchmen are parochial, and do not understand any city other than their own.

[sickchangeup]

That distinction is an important point/question to raise, and in the case of Craft, the answer IMO is no.  Craft is about the best ingredients, cooked perfectly, then (to simplify) put in a staub dish and plopped into the middle of the table.   Taken literally, nothing arrives on your plate, ever.

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That strikes me as an awfully literal—even anal-retentive—reason to disqualify Craft, assuming one agrees that it's "about the best ingredients cooked perfectly."

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Here, I'll add one of these to the sentence I wrote above in an effort to downgrade from anal-retentive back to just being awfully literal:

Although come to think of it, Peter Luger goes the "best ingredients, perfectly cooked, nothing arrives on your plate ever" route to receive their Star and isn't "disqualified" for that reason alone, so presumably Craft isn't being docked solely for their approach.

[DutchMuse]

IMHO, most Michelin 3* in NYC would not warrant 3 * in Paris; maybe 2, some one.  FWIW, I never thought Babbo deserved even one *, nor did Craft.  Craft is a lovely expression of a certain type of cooking, but I don't think it deserves a *.

I'm just curious what everyone's standard for a "*" (or ** or ***) is, exactly.

FYI, here's Michelin's own stated standard.

"Every restaurant listed in the Michelin Guide is recommended by our team of professional inspectors. The ones listed below have earned stars that reflect their exceptional culinary achievements, regardless of cuisine style. Stars represent only what is on the plate. They do not take into consideration interior decoration, service quality or table settings."

Whether they follow this standard or not is another issue.

NOW do you think Babbo and Craft deserve(d) one Michelin star?

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Maybe Craft; not Babbo.