First home Indian meal

[Lyle]

Interest has been kindled in me about my relative ignorance of Indian cuisine by various posts in this forum. After countless dinners out, I grew tired of the limited variety and lack of adventure in the local Indian restaurants and promptly bought an Indian cookbook and borrowed two others. We had a few friends over (mostly to critique) and I decided to relate my virgin cooking experiament.

I decided to start with basic dishes as when I make my mistakes I would like to be able to identify where they took place and know...somewhat...what the dish SHOULD look and taste like. I prepared Lamb braised in yoghurt with clove fennel cumin and tumeric. Eggplant roasted with onion and tomato. caulifower potato. and Naan.

Eggplant: This dish was definately the best executed of all the dishes. It was lightly spiced and relayed the inherant goodness of its ingredients.

Cauliflower and potato. The spicing was successful. I believe the recipe was from a Madhur Jaffrey cookbook. The potatoes were boiled and were firm. A quick dish, the easiest of all to prepare. Criticism: I cooked this dish in a wok because of 1)lack of room on the crowed range and 2) lack of enough pans large enough to contain this double-recipe quantity of ingredients. The caulifower was sufficiently crisp and tasty, but I did not achieve the carmalization on the outside that I was seeking. Next time I need to use much higher heat and if I am cooking in the same quantity probably cook in two batches.

Naan: I got this recipe from the Food Network. It was a disaster for various reasons. Luckily I saw this coming and bought some pre-made naan (read pita bread ) that sufficed. There were several problems with the recipe and myself. The dough called for only one cup of flour to, I believe, 3/4 cup water and ghee. I realize that with flatbreads in general (I make various flatbreads all the time) you will usually uptick the flour by as much as 1/4 a cup, but this recipe needed at least 1/2 a cup more flour to make the dough even managable. The recipe also called for a 400 degree oven to be baked for 12 minutes . I thought it sounded a little off for my desired consistency and, with a dough this wet, it was. My first batch ended up like a cracker or wafer. The rest of the evening I used the same temperature for six minutes and achieved the desired chewiness but little to no color. The next time (tonight? I've got lots of leftovers) I will use a 500 + degree oven and vary the time until correct. Posibly further modify the recipe as well.

Lamb and yoghurt: In my mind this was the most successful dish. The braising sauce consisting mostly of yoghurt and a little water was perfectly seasoned and divine. The lamb was the problem, but I knew it would be; my local (it really wasn't even THAT local) Indian grocer only had leg of lamb in his store, I of course wanted shoulder, doubly so after tasting the dry, somewhat crunchy meat. Nevertheless, I will definitely cook this dish again with a more suitable cut.

Lessons learned.

1. Make Naan every night this week till I get it right.

2. Always use appropriate cuts of meat for various cooking techniques.

3. Not enough can be said for hot pans.

4. Use sufficient trepadation when tasting unknown ingredients. I had never had pure Asafoetida before and before adding it, surely I must taste it. About 1 1/2 teaspoons later, you can imagine my reaction.

Any comments or suggestions are definately welcome as I am about as ignorant as they come. If anybody is interested in specific recipes, I can post them tonight or possibly tomorrow.

Suvir: you had mentioned your sister lived in Dallas; Where does she shop for her indian staples? I had no problem with the location I went to, but one storefront is hardly a sufficient sample.

[Suzanne F]

Lyle, be warned: you have started down a path from which there is no return. Once you start cooking Indian food at home, you will not want to cook anything else.

Except maybe Italian, or French, or Chinese, or Japanese, or Thai, or BBQ, or ... or any other ethnic cuisine you have eaten but not yet cooked. No, seriously, "Indian" food, with all the regional splendors, is fabulous to cook at home. Have fun!!!

[Sandra Levine]

Maybe I'm being too much of a nitpicker, but, because naan is supposed to made in a tandoori oven, no matter what you do, it won't come out the way it's supposed to. Why not try some of the other Indian breads that do not require special equipment, like puri or chapati?

[Lyle]

A good suggestion, but I suspect I could do a much better job of simulating my favorite Indian bread, if not generate an authentic copy.

Another valuable result of the meal: good yoghurt. I have been thoroughly dissatisfied with every brand, even high end, of yoghurt I have bought at whole Foods and Central market. Even straining through cheesecloth failed to develop the right taste or creamy consistency. I had resigned myself to make my own. THe Zahle yoghurt I got from the Indian food merchant was great. Suspect that will generate more time for me to waste watching Curb yr Enthusiams. Or some such.

[tommy]

Maybe I'm being too much of a nitpicker, but, because naan is supposed to made in a tandoori oven, no matter what you do, it won't come out the way it's supposed to.  Why not try some of the other Indian breads that do not require special equipment, like puri or chapati?

which begs the question: what elements of a tandoor make it unique, and can you approximate those elements at home. yeah, the sucker is hot. yeah, it's made of clay. but how about another angle? pizza stone maybe?

takers?

[g.johnson]

Maybe I'm being too much of a nitpicker, but, because naan is supposed to made in a tandoori oven, no matter what you do, it won't come out the way it's supposed to.  Why not try some of the other Indian breads that do not require special equipment, like puri or chapati?

which begs the question: what elements of a tandoor make it unique, and can you approximate those elements at home. yeah, the sucker is hot. yeah, it's made of clay. but how about another angle? pizza stone maybe?

takers?

I think tandoors reach 800F.

Edit: So, no, you can't approximate it at home.

[Lyle]

I used pizza stones. Does anybody know the inernal temp. of a tandoor? I can get my electric oven up to 600 degrees. It is wildly erratic. So am I.

edit: you beat me to it. Thanks

[tommy]

I think tandoors reach 800F.

Edit: So, no, you can't approximate it at home.

i think we'd better argue the definition of "approximate" before deciding who ultimately has the only correct answer.

[g.johnson]

I've tried making naan on a pizza stone in a 500F oven. Wasn't good. The fault may lie with the recipe (Madhur Jaffrey so unlikely) or the technique (g. so quite possible) but in a tandoor the intense heat comes from all sides which you can't duplicate with a stone.

[Lyle]

In theory, though, Ins't the oven's inherant purpose to expose said dish to even heat from all sides? The purpose of using a stone is to provide consistent heat from the bottom without cooling (I believe in the last sentence I stated the same thing twice...oh well). When cooking naan in a tandoor, the dough is slapped against the side, much as I would slap it on a sufficiently heated stone. would approx. 200 degrees really matter that much? Are all tandoor oven the same?

[tommy]

but in a tandoor the intense heat comes from all sides which you can't duplicate with a stone.

how 'bout 2 stones.

[Schielke]

You could have one pizza stone or other kind of clay item on the high oven shelf and your pizza stone on a lower shelf. You would have to let your oven go full blast for a while to heat it sufficiently.

It would be interesting to see how hot that got. You could get one of those surface temp guns to check it out. those things rule, I hear thomas keller loves his. You just point it at something, pull the trigger and it tells you the surface temp.

Ben

[Lyle]

Don't know abt surface temp, but internal air temp is slightly above 600 degrees (am doing it now)

[Suvir Saran]

Maybe I'm being too much of a nitpicker, but, because naan is supposed to made in a tandoori oven, no matter what you do, it won't come out the way it's supposed to.  Why not try some of the other Indian breads that do not require special equipment, like puri or chapati?

Golden words!

[tommy]

suvir, do you subscribe to the idea that naan cannot be made at home?

[Suvir Saran]

suvir, do you subscribe to the idea that naan cannot be made at home?

Yes I do Tommy.

I think we have chatted about this before.

I have yet to be served a Naan made outside of a Tandoor that is even half way decent.

But I am ready to be proven wrong.

[Suvir Saran]

Interest has been kindled in me about my relative ignorance of Indian cuisine by various posts in this forum.  After countless dinners out, I grew tired of the limited variety and lack of adventure in the local Indian restaurants and promptly bought an Indian cookbook and borrowed two others.  We had a few friends over (mostly to critique) and I decided to relate my virgin cooking experiament.

And we are ever so lucky that you chose to share them here. Many thanks!

I have enjoyed reading your post immensely.

And now that you have lost your virginity, you should be ready for a great adventure.

Post as often or whatever you want on this forum, I am sure all of us will pitch in as and when we can.. and share what we know.. and also learn from your adventures.

You are at a very exciting place.

Nothing like home cooked Indian food.

If you need any recipes in particular, please PM me and tell me what ingredient you are most wanting to experiment with, and I shall send you some recipes for you to play with.

I am excited for you.. and also feel greatly gifted to have you sharing your experiences on here. It is wonderful.

[tommy]

Yes I do Tommy.

I think we have chatted about this before.  

I have yet to be served a Naan made outside of a Tandoor that is even half way decent.

But I am ready to be proven wrong.

you and i? i don't recall.

as with most things, i'm thinking that there *must* be a way. however, i'm not experienced at all in baking, so i can't even offer half-way intelligent commentary...as opposed to my usual half-informed nonsense that i spout here on a daily if not hourly basis.

i'll just order from mela and call it a day.

[Suvir Saran]

Yes I do Tommy.

I think we have chatted about this before.  

I have yet to be served a Naan made outside of a Tandoor that is even half way decent.

But I am ready to be proven wrong.

you and i? i don't recall.

as with most things, i'm thinking that there *must* be a way. however, i'm not experienced at all in baking, so i can't even offer half-way intelligent commentary...as opposed to my usual half-informed nonsense that i spout here on a daily if not hourly basis.

i'll just order from mela and call it a day.

I loved the Samosas at Mela...

In fact I loved them so much that Gael Greene shared a limo with me and some friends and decided to make the Samosa pilgrimage to that sweet little town.

How is Mela these days? Is Bali still the owner? If you are ever at Mela.. ask for Bali.. and tell him I said hello.

Well, the heat that a tandoor provides is unique not only in the high temperatures that it can reach, but also in the way it provides it. Go request Bali to show you a tandoor and try working around it for an hour.. you will understand more about a Tandoor after that.

There are many home techniques in India that are made as attempts to replicate what a tandoor does without having to own one, and each of these is only an attempt yet and nothing more.

But I am still ready to meet a person that can make Naan in a home conventional oven that has the same texture, taste and browning like it would have being cooked in a tandoor.

[tommy]

I loved the Samosas at Mela...

In fact I loved them so much that Gael Greene shared a limo with me and some friends and decided to make the Samosa pilgrimage to that sweet little town.

How is Mela these days?  Is Bali still the owner?  If you are ever at Mela.. ask for Bali.. and tell him I said hello.

i remember you recommending them. i've never been, but have ordered take-away from mela. i think samosas might lose something in the journey. i'll be sure to mention your name if i go...and, of course, i'll be prepared to duck.

[ajay]

Lyle,

As to the yogurt problems you were experiencing, I quite agree; we haven't really found a brand we deem acceptable. Our solution? We make our own. I think we got the starter from another Indian family, but I think you could use a little bit of yogurt from a high end brand, and then good organic milk should clear up that problem.

On the naan issue, I guess I'm just not as picky as some of the others on this board. Note I am not Punjabi, and so, I guess I don't have the same demands from my naan. while those made in a tandoor will taste better, most of the restaurant made naan is usually worse than that I produce at home. I haven't minded the consistency of those produced in the home oven (usually sans pizza stone). These naan acheive the requisite chewiness, with a hint of crisp that I prefer. Again not being Punjabi and not having experienced really good restaurant (or home) naan, I don't particularly care what the ideal type is. I enjoy what we are able to produce in the home. But, I always admire perfection whenever I see it. I guess, then, my problem in the naan department is that I haven't been exposed to any very good to perfect specimens.

[ajay]

ps, how do members prefer their ghobi (cauliflower)? They are mushy in most of the subjees I tend to enjoy. I believe this is the way most Punjabis prefer their ghobi as well; is this right? Do you care? How do you prefer yours?

[Suvir Saran]

I loved the Samosas at Mela...

In fact I loved them so much that Gael Greene shared a limo with me and some friends and decided to make the Samosa pilgrimage to that sweet little town.

How is Mela these days?  Is Bali still the owner?  If you are ever at Mela.. ask for Bali.. and tell him I said hello.

i remember you recommending them. i've never been, but have ordered take-away from mela. i think samosas might lose something in the journey. i'll be sure to mention your name if i go...and, of course, i'll be prepared to duck.

Smart boy you are.

[Suvir Saran]

As to the yogurt problems you were experiencing, I quite agree; we haven't really found a brand we deem acceptable.  Our solution?  We make our own.  I think we got the starter from another Indian family, but I think you could use a little bit of yogurt from a high end brand, and then good organic milk should clear up that problem.

May I get some starter from you Ajay?

What a lucky set of family and friends you must have.

I brought my last starter from my grandmother in SF... and now I need a new one.

[Suvir Saran]

ps, how do members prefer their ghobi (cauliflower)?  They are mushy in most of the subjees I tend to enjoy.  I believe this is the way most Punjabis prefer their ghobi as well; is this right?  Do you care?  How do you prefer yours?

I like mine crispy and crunchy.