Help with the "ice filtration" technique...

[phan1]

OK, I've done the technique; it works beautifully. But I'm having trouble perfecting it and getting the technique down right. It seems like a new adventure every time and I'm having a hard time getting some consistency. Here are my issues:

1) When you make the stock, can it go directly to the freezer or do you want to refrigerate and make sure the stock gels before putting it in the freezer? I thought maybe putting it directly into the freezer would help increase my yield, as waiting for it to jelly in the fridge would only trap more water in the gelatin.

2) OK, too much gelatin in the stock is going to decrease my yield, right? Any tips on getting a good yield? My yield is pretty inconsistent.

3) any advice on percentages when making consommes without gelatin from bones? How much gelatin to water would I need by weight? I was actually thinking of just not using bones at all and just using some ground beef and gelatin. Or making shellfish consomme that contain very little gelatine.

4) OK, general stock question. Let's say I had a pound of meat (no bones). How much broth could I get from that? I've never been shown how to make stock and my yield is only 3/4 pound of broth from a pound of meat... That sound right to you? Cause it's hard to justify buying a pound of meat and only getting 3/4 pound of soup from it. I guess that's why consommes can be rather expensive? Wikipedia said that as much as a pound of meat can yield an 8oz consomme. But isn't that true with all stocks?

Edited June 4, 2008 by phan1 (log)

[Jonathan Kaplan]

I can only answer one of the four questions, but here it is:

In general, for freeze-clarifying stocks, etc., that have no or limited natural gelatin, .5% gelatin by weight is a good starting point.

Oh, and I very much doubt that it'll make a difference whether it gels in the 'fridge first or not. I suspect that the freezing will overwhelm any such effect. But that's a guess.

Best,

jk

[Tri2Cook]

Oh, and I very much doubt that it'll make a difference whether it gels in the 'fridge first or not.  I suspect that the freezing will overwhelm any such effect.  But that's a guess.

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Hmmm. Interesting thought. I've never thought about whether it matters or not, I always set it in the fridge then freeze it. I'll have to give it a try, that would be a time saver if it works out the same.

[FastTalkingHighTrousers]

OK, I've done the technique; it works beautifully.  But I'm having trouble perfecting it and getting the technique down right.  It seems like a new adventure every time and I'm having a hard time getting some consistency.  Here are my issues:

1) When you make the stock, can it go directly to the freezer or do you want to refrigerate and make sure the stock gels before putting it in the freezer?  I thought maybe putting it directly into the freezer would help increase my yield, as waiting for it to jelly in the fridge would only trap more water in the gelatin. 

2) OK, too much gelatin in the stock is going to decrease my yield, right?  Any tips on getting a good yield?  My yield is pretty inconsistent.

3) any advice on percentages when making consommes without gelatin from bones?  How much gelatin to water would I need by weight?  I was actually thinking of just not using bones at all and just using some ground beef and gelatin.  Or making shellfish consomme that contain very little gelatine.

4) OK, general stock question.  Let's say I had a pound of meat (no bones).  How much broth could I get from that?  I've never been shown how to make stock and my yield is only 3/4 pound of broth from a pound of meat...  That sound right to you?  Cause it's hard to justify buying a pound of meat and only getting 3/4 pound of soup from it.  I guess that's why consommes can be rather expensive?  Wikipedia said that as much as a pound of meat can yield an 8oz consomme.  But isn't that true with all stocks?

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I usually use this technique for making consomme using chicken jus, not chicken stock.

If you make a nice jus it should be more flavorful, colorful and have less natural gelatin in it than stock.

The fact that is has less gelatin is great because it increases your yeild using the gelatin clarification method.

I make my jus and put it directly in the freezer. When it's frozen through I hang it in my walk in from a 100 micron super bag for 2 days. The resulting consomme is crystal clear and super flavorful with a much greater yield than hen I use stock.

Good luck!

[TheSwede]

What do you mean by jus in this context, how is it different from stock?

[FastTalkingHighTrousers]

What do you mean by jus in this context, how is it different from stock?

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Traditionally you would make Jus with whole chicken carcasses with some meat still on the bones, roast the bones and veg and cook the jus for much less time than you would cook a stock (about 2 hours).

You end up with a jus with much less gelatin but with the color of a reduced stock.

Perfect for gelatin filtration.

[pounce]

Perfect for gelatin filtration.

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I'm confused by your statements. You want to make a jus with less gelatin by cooking the bones for less time then you want to add gelatin so you can use the filtration method? Why would you want less gelatin in your jus/stock to use the gel, freeze, thaw method of clarifying the liquid?

[Tri2Cook]

I'm thinking it's probably because the gelatin ratio is so low for this process that a traditional, well jellied stock is actually too high in gelatin. I've had my best results with liquids that are not far beyond a fluid gel when set. Of course that's just from personal observation, I'm certainly no expert on the subject.

[FastTalkingHighTrousers]

I'm thinking it's probably because the gelatin ratio is so low for this process that a traditional, well jellied stock is actually too high in gelatin. I've had my best results with liquids that are not far beyond a fluid gel when set. Of course that's just from personal observation, I'm certainly no expert on the subject.

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That's exactly right.

Using this method of clarifying with a reduced stock has too much gelatin to be able to get a usable yield. You'll be left with 2T of consomme and a giant brick of jelly.

With a jus there's obviously much less gelatin so you get much more yield out of the consomme.

[TheSwede]

Traditionally you would make Jus with whole chicken carcasses with some meat still on the bones, roast the bones and veg and cook the jus for much less time than you would cook a stock (about 2 hours).

You end up with a jus with much less gelatin but with the color of a reduced stock.

Perfect for gelatin filtration.

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This is how I usually make my brown chicken stock. I might add another 30 - 60 minutes of cooking, but otherwise no difference.

[pounce]

I'm thinking it's probably because the gelatin ratio is so low for this process that a traditional, well jellied stock is actually too high in gelatin. I've had my best results with liquids that are not far beyond a fluid gel when set. Of course that's just from personal observation, I'm certainly no expert on the subject.

←

That's exactly right.

Using this method of clarifying with a reduced stock has too much gelatin to be able to get a usable yield. You'll be left with 2T of consomme and a giant brick of jelly.

With a jus there's obviously much less gelatin so you get much more yield out of the consomme.

←

Gotcha. Is the result clear?

[FastTalkingHighTrousers]

I'm thinking it's probably because the gelatin ratio is so low for this process that a traditional, well jellied stock is actually too high in gelatin. I've had my best results with liquids that are not far beyond a fluid gel when set. Of course that's just from personal observation, I'm certainly no expert on the subject.

←

That's exactly right.

Using this method of clarifying with a reduced stock has too much gelatin to be able to get a usable yield. You'll be left with 2T of consomme and a giant brick of jelly.

With a jus there's obviously much less gelatin so you get much more yield out of the consomme.

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Gotcha. Is the result clear?

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Crystal clear! I wish I had a better camera ... I'd upload some pics.

Edited June 9, 2008 by FastTalkingHighTrousers (log)