(Not So) Simple, Flavored, & Spiced Syrups

[bostonapothecary]

I add grain alcohol to most of my syrups (typically made 2:1) except to my honey syrup (made 1:1) and it's been in the fridge for at least a year with no deterioration or foreign growth. Make sure to rinse the conatiners out well with hot water before filling and bring the syrups briefly to a boil to kill whatever might be in already.

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adding tiny amounts of alcohol to your syrups is more or less a placebo... you inhibit growth of certain organisms but so many others have a tolerence for alchol far past 14%...

you mainly want to bring stuff up to temperature and use good canning technique... there all sorts of canning guides online...

i've seen stuff start to grown on 70+ plus proof infusions... i think flavor oils or whatever from the fruit infused floated to the top creating a protective layer for stuff to grow above it... weird... i don't even know of any experiments that explain that kind of thing... if you really wanted to make something stable you could use sulphur or potassium sorbate

[lostmyshape]

if you really wanted to make something stable you could use sulphur or potassium sorbate

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hmm... you mean, just add it in? any idea how much? would those perservatives affect flavor?

EDIT: answered part of my own question... from http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/necfe/pubs/p...2_chemical.html:

Potassium sorbate is a white crystalline powder, inexpensive (at the usage level), with basically no noticeable flavor at normal usage concentrations. In wine processing, sorbates are used to prevent refermentation. Maximum level allowable by law is 0.1%.

It is important to know that the addition of sodium benzoate and/or potassium sorbate to a food product will raise the pH by approximately 0.1 to 0.5 pH units depending on the amount, pH, and type of product. Additional adjustment of the pH might be needed to keep the pH at a safe level.

at first glance this seems like a last resort, as in my experience the sugar levels ward off most icky critters. however, i'm having a problem with some refrigerated 5-month old pineapple syrup -- the syrup itself still tastes good (flavor is dulling a little), but i'm getting mold in the bottle above the liquid line (in the residue left behind after pouring). would potassium sorbate fix that?

Edited May 5, 2008 by lostmyshape (log)

[bostonapothecary]

if you really wanted to make something stable you could use sulphur or potassium sorbate

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hmm... you mean, just add it in? any idea how much? would those perservatives affect flavor?

EDIT: answered part of my own question... from http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/necfe/pubs/p...2_chemical.html:

Potassium sorbate is a white crystalline powder, inexpensive (at the usage level), with basically no noticeable flavor at normal usage concentrations. In wine processing, sorbates are used to prevent refermentation. Maximum level allowable by law is 0.1%.

It is important to know that the addition of sodium benzoate and/or potassium sorbate to a food product will raise the pH by approximately 0.1 to 0.5 pH units depending on the amount, pH, and type of product. Additional adjustment of the pH might be needed to keep the pH at a safe level.

at first glance this seems like a last resort, as in my experience the sugar levels ward off most icky critters. however, i'm having a problem with some refrigerated 5-month old pineapple syrup -- the syrup itself still tastes good (flavor is dulling a little), but i'm getting mold in the bottle above the liquid line (in the residue left behind after pouring). would potassium sorbate fix that?

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five months is asking alot for a syrup. are you sure your cleanliness is perfect? pineapple's contain alot of yeasts and random stuff that can grow. you can easily ferment the skins without adding any other yeast. you may want to change you technique up. get the smallest size of canning jars. (8 oz.)... bring the syrup up to a sterylizing temp. can put it in the jars and seal. you will get a vacuum and it will probably be enough to protect it... you might get some flavor differences... the high temperature and the acid of the pineapple might easily invert your sugars splitting the fructose... (making it more stable but sort of different...)

so what kind of canning technique are you using?

potassium sorbate is mainly used to prevect refermentation of dessert wines. if you use too much you can get a geranium like off aroma... ive used it to stabilize sodas that i've made with yeasts but the shelf life of my sodas hasn't been long enough to really test the ins and outs of the technology...

[lostmyshape]

five months is asking alot for a syrup.  are you sure your cleanliness is perfect?  pineapple's contain alot of yeasts and random stuff that can grow. you can easily ferment the skins without adding any other yeast.  you may want to change you technique up.  get the smallest size of canning jars. (8 oz.)... bring the syrup up to a sterylizing temp. can put it in the jars and seal. you will get a vacuum and it will probably be enough to protect it... you might get some flavor differences... the high temperature and the acid of the pineapple might easily invert your sugars splitting the fructose... (making it more stable but sort of different...)

so what kind of canning technique are you using?

potassium sorbate is mainly used to prevect refermentation of dessert wines.  if you use too much you can get a geranium like off aroma... ive used it to stabilize sodas that i've made with yeasts but the shelf life of my sodas hasn't been long enough to really test the ins and outs of the technology...

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now there's my problem... i wasn't canning at all. it went into a sterilized 20 oz bottle with a pour top. i think the problem was that i made too much, so i just stored the extra in the back of the fridge where it sat unused for 3 months. if i make too much next time i'll definitely can it.

i realized i was asking a bit much to expect it to stay good for so long, but just wondered about the use of preservatives in syrups.

i just hate to throw stuff out.

Edited May 7, 2008 by lostmyshape (log)

[eje]

now there's my problem... i wasn't canning at all.  it went into a sterilized 20 oz bottle with a pour top.  i think the problem was that i made too much, so i just stored the extra in the back of the fridge where it sat unused for 3 months.  if i make too much next time i'll definitely can it.

i realized i was asking a bit much to expect it to stay good for so long, but just wondered about the use of preservatives in syrups. 

i just hate to throw stuff out.

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You can toss fruit syrups in the freezer. At least the more robustly flavored syrups, like grenadine, seem to do fine. Due to their sugar content, they should stay in a semi-frozen slushy state, which can then be easily defrosted in a couple seconds under cold running water.

Edited May 7, 2008 by eje (log)

[Tiare]

I make a lot of syrups because i`m a hopeless syrup geek.

I usually make them 2:1 and slightly boil just at the end and before bottling rinse the bottles with hot water. I add 1 oz of JW&N overproof, "just to make sure" (?) and they are fine in the fridge but i always also use them up in a few months although i`ve had vanilla syrups for a year.Another thing i believe is important is good straining.

I also regularly clean the upper part of the bottle to avoid any mush around the pour, don`t know how necessary that is but i like my bottles clean.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Tiare (log)

[mbanu]

Make sure the bottles are cleaned and sanitized. The syrups need to be boiled but not caramelized. Christian Schultz (the guy who did the section on bitters, liqueurs, infusions, and syrups in How to Mix Drinks by Jerry Thomas) suggested "small thread" to "large pearl" levels of candying.

I've found 2:1 sugar to water to be a good ratio for me. Honey should be cut to a similar concentration.

[Provocachic]

Greetings!

Have recently bought a bottle of gum arabic 'syrup' (from a specialty pastry supplier), but rather than being pre-sweetened, it's mainly gum arabic in liquid form.

However, most recipes for making your own gum arabic syrup has 3 components - gum arabic, water & sugar. Have anyone used gum arabic in this liquid form and sweetened it with sugar?

If so, what proportion should I use? (1 gum arabic liquid: 3 sugar?)

[MaxH]

Can't answer the recipe request, but note (in case anyone didn't know this) gum arabic (gum Acacia) is a classic vegetable gum used in foods, candies, glues, etc. It's sold bulk in dried strips, or ground into powder. You soak it in cold water and then heat to dissolve (if I remember), much like gelatine. The dried form is concentrated and probably so cheap you could experiment freely.

I'd look for it in one of those diverse bulk herb sections found in "organic" US supermarkets, but there must be many other sources, including online. A lab supply firm or compounding pharmacy would surely have it too.

[Scotttos]

I'd look for it in one of those diverse bulk herb sections found in "organic" US supermarkets, but there must be many other sources, including online.  A lab supply firm or compounding pharmacy would surely have it too.

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You can get it here: http://www.frontiercoop.com/prdDisp.php?I=2212&full=y

It's tricky stuff but the resulting syrup is worth it, imo.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Scotttos (log)

[Provocachic]

Well, the tricky thing is the gum arabic I bought came in liquid form. As the recipes usually use the powder form for this particular ingredient, the recipe would most probably be different in my case.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Can't answer the recipe request, but note (in case anyone didn't know this) gum arabic (gum Acacia) is a classic vegetable gum used in foods, candies, glues, etc.  It's sold bulk in dried strips, or ground into powder.  You soak it in cold water and then heat to dissolve (if I remember), much like gelatine.  The dried form is concentrated and probably so cheap you could experiment freely. 

I'd look for it in one of those diverse bulk herb sections found in "organic" US supermarkets, but there must be many other sources, including online.  A lab supply firm or compounding pharmacy would surely have it too.

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[Provocachic]

Just an interesting note on use of honey to share here:

Had used one particular type, "honeydew" Beech honey in a cocktail recipe (Secret Garden) last year. It had a very unusual earthy note, and is actually nectar collected by bees from a certain species of insects.

I've picked up some Mesquite Bean syrup to experiment with.  Will report back on that in the near future.

However, the current report is regarding using the Mesquite Gum Syrup in a Sazerac.

The usual, 2 oz Sazerac Straight Rye, Dashes Peychaud, barspoon Mesquite Gum Syrup, Absinthe wash, and lemon twist.

Unfortunately, I don't know that I have anything particular to report, other than this seemed to be one of the better Sazeracs I've made for myself.  It did seem to taste a bit different than usual, but I would be hard pressed to say if it was the Mesquite Gum or just that I had made a few Sazeracs last week for friends and was in practice.

In any case, it certainly did no harm to the drink.

A side by side comparison with plain syrup and Mesquite Gum syrup is needed!

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[slkinsey]

Provocachic, what you should do is figure out the equivalent dry weight of your gum arabic and proceed from there.

[feste]

I do wonder if unprocessed gum arabic would have similar flavor and character?  It seems that bartenders might have gotten less processed acacia gum back then, than we do now.  The candy and food industries are just interested in it for its chemical properties, not its flavor.

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The first time I made gum syrup, I purchased resinous amber-colored chunks, not unlike the pieces of mesquite gum in your photo. They took a long time to break down, and although the mouthfeel was lovely and silky, there was not much added flavor. I find the powdered form much easier to work with.

[feste]

Imagine my further surprise to discover it is already under consideration as a substitute for Gum Arabic.  So, yes, I do believe a small batch of syrup fortified with mesquite gum is in my future!

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And eje, you must stop by soon and give me a taste!

[deensiebat]

i made rhubarb syrup for cocktails last spring, just boiling it in sugar water til mushy and straining. but it got moldy really quickly (and yes, i stored it in the fridge). ew! it's more convenient to make larger rather than smaller batches. is there any way to improve its fridge-shelf life? mix in some vodka? cut down or increase the sugar? suggested proportions? or just keep up with the small batches?

[bostonapothecary]

i made rhubarb syrup for cocktails last spring, just boiling it in sugar water til mushy and straining.  but it got moldy really quickly (and yes, i stored it in the fridge).  ew!  it's more convenient to make larger rather than smaller batches.  is there any way to improve its fridge-shelf life?  mix in some vodka?  cut down or increase the sugar?  suggested proportions?  or just keep up with the small batches?

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i think you'd just want to bring it up to temperature to kill whatever mold things live in the rhubarb... then big batch or not store it in many smaller containers... so just opening one doesn't contaminate them all... they don't sell those very small jelly canning jars for no reason...

cheers!

my pastry chef has been serving lots of strawberry and rhubarb lately... delicious.

[slkinsey]

How's the rhubarb syrup work? I love rhubvarb, but have never found that a rubuarb juice, syrup or infusion of any kind was able to stand up in a cocktail.

[deensiebat]

i think you'd just want to bring it up to temperature to kill whatever mold things live in the rhubarb... then big batch or not store it in many smaller containers... so just opening one doesn't contaminate them all... they don't sell those very small jelly canning jars for no reason...

cheers!

my pastry chef has been serving lots of strawberry and rhubarb lately... delicious.

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small containers seem like a good idea. thanks!

How's the rhubarb syrup work?  I love rhubarb, but have never found that a rubuarb juice, syrup or infusion of any kind was able to stand up in a cocktail.

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i liked it a lot, but i'm a pretty big rhubarb fan. a favorite combination was with gin, soda water, and lime. i also tried concocting a cachaca cocktail, but that was a less successful combination (but it did allow us to use the word "caparhubarb," which was almost reason enough to make it again).

Edited May 20, 2008 by deensiebat (log)

[slkinsey]

I like rhubard as well, but found that even the mildest-flavored liquor would completely obliterate the rhubarb flavor, meaning that the rest of the ingredients had to be extremely mildly flavored in order to get any rhubarb flavor.

[deensiebat]

I like rhubard as well, but found that even the mildest-flavored liquor would completely obliterate the rhubarb flavor, meaning that the rest of the ingredients had to be extremely mildly flavored in order to get any rhubarb flavor.

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the flavor did get muted somewhat, but it still made a nice contribution. i also noticed that a lot of the recipes i saw online were just simple syrups with a few stalks thrown in -- i made my version much heavier on the rhubarb.

[KatieLoeb]

My rhubarb syrup (or Rhu-goo, as I've been known to call it) keeps for several weeks in the fridge. Haven't had a problem with it going funky on me yet.

It mixes well with rhum agricole or cachaca, which provides more of a "blank slate" on which to layer the rhubarb flavor.

[Chris Hennes]

My rhubarb syrup (or Rhu-goo, as I've been known to call it) keeps for several weeks in the fridge.  Haven't had a problem with it going funky on me yet.

It mixes well with rhum agricole or cachaca, which provides more of a "blank slate" on which to layer the rhubarb flavor.

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Katie, how do you make yours? Your grenadine recipe has been such a hit at my house that I am anxious to try new elixirs!

[KatieLoeb]

Rhubarb Syrup

4 cups diced rhubarb (about 4 large stalks)

2.5 cups water

1.5 cups sugar

1/2 Tablespoon freshly microplaned ginger

1/8 tsp. Chinese Five Spice powder

Cover rhubarb with water and bring to a boil. Cover, lower heat and simmer for approximately 25 minutes, until rhubarb begins to break down. Remove from heat. Stir in remaining ingredients and allow to cool. Run through a food mill or puree in blender and push through a strainer, pressing on solids to remove as much rhubarb syrup as possible.

I'm serving this in my Rhuby Daiquiri, which is basically a Hemingway with a bit of rhubarb syrup and Ruby Red grapefruit juice rather than yellow grapefruit juice. A dash of grapefruit bitters is optional but ties it all together.

Edited May 20, 2008 by KatieLoeb (log)

[thirtyoneknots]

Slightly off-topic but Ramazotti has some rhubarb notes, doesnt it? or am I thinking of something else? Just wondering what other ways there migth be to add the flavor aside from a syrup.