Winston Industries C-Vap Cook & Hold

[JasonZ]

Fascinating topic ... I had first seen this equipment mentioned on Shola's blog, Food Kitchen, and had gone to the manufacturer's website for more info. The idea is similar to putting a pot of water onto the floor of an Aga oven and then cooking in it, except here you have far more control over temperature (Agas have no temperature dials/controls -- they have multiple ovens at different temps, so you could to time).

I guess we differ in that you seem to cook a fair amount of meat, while I'm going to a more veg and fish diet ... and I have no one who will complain if I cook SV in a "plastic bag" , although your wife does have a good point there ...

This reminds me of the most wonderful salmon I ever had ... at Tetsuya's in Sydney ... cooked low temperature in an oil bath in the oven ... came out looking as if it hadn't been cooked (red rather than pink), but with the most wonderful flavor and not at all oily. The recipe is in his cookbook -- I'll look it up and edit this post to include it, but I seem to remember he was cooking at around 50 C.

Wonder if something like this is worthwhile in a more vegetarian household -- have you tried fish or veg dishes in it?

[docsconz]

Fascinating topic ... I had first seen this equipment mentioned on Shola's blog, Food Kitchen, and had gone to the manufacturer's website for more info. The idea is similar to putting a pot of water onto the floor of an Aga oven and then cooking in it, except here you have far more control over temperature (Agas have no temperature dials/controls -- they have multiple ovens at different temps, so you could to time).

I guess we differ in that you seem to cook a fair amount of meat, while I'm going to a more veg and fish diet ... and I have no one who will complain if I cook SV in a "plastic bag" , although your wife does have a good point there ...

This reminds me of the most wonderful salmon I ever had ... at Tetsuya's in Sydney ... cooked low temperature in an oil bath in the oven ... came out looking as if it hadn't been cooked (red rather than pink), but with the most wonderful flavor and not at all oily. The recipe is in his cookbook -- I'll look it up and edit this post to include it, but I seem to remember he was cooking at around 50 C.

Wonder if something like this is worthwhile in a more vegetarian household -- have you tried fish or veg dishes in it?

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I have been meaning to as I'm told that it is particularly good for fish. I will try to do so soon. I did cook potatoes in it, but as a side for chicken and not directly with them as the principle end result.

[docsconz]

I have come to really appreciate the CVap when entertaining. This past Saturday, we had a spontaneous dinner party determined by a visit to the Farmers market in the morning and the purchase of a couple of fresh chickens and sweet corn.

When I came home, I quickly spatchcocked the chickens and put them in a hotel pan with olive oil, lemon juice, garlic and salt and pepper that I cooked on the stove to mellow the garlic. I then placed them in the CVap at 148ºF with 0 browning level for 6 hours along with the corn that had some of the outer husks and silk removed. After our guests arrived and were served steamed clams with white whine, garlic, thyme, parsley and pimentón and tomato-basil bruschetta, I put the chickens in a 450º convection roast oven for ten minutes to crisp the skin. The chickens came out perfectly, retaining incredible moisture and flavor along with the crisp, salted skin. The chicken was served along side sauteed green beans with butter and mint and the corn. The corn, too was amazing, retaining its moisture, while being cooked just enough. The work and maintenance factors were minimal. In fact, we spent the better part of the afternoon boating and swimming in Lake George.

The following night, I made hamburgers. I took 4 half-inch thick beef patties and put them in the CVap for a little over an hour at 130ºF with 0 browning before completing the cooking by searing them quickly in a cast-iron skillet and topping them with cheese. The burgers were cooked medium rare, delicious and juicy. I would have trouble using this technique without knowing and trusting the source of the ground beef, but they are really, really good if one does.

Sorry for the lack of photos.

I have also discovered that the CVap is excellent for rewarming leftover roasts without drying them out. We recently had a leftover pork loin that had been cooked conventionally. It lost nothing when reheated in the CVap at 150ºF for an afternoon.

One process that I have not had much success with yet, though I am getting closer, is cooking the perfectly poached egg. I have tried cooking them at 147ºF, cracked into a covered ramekin, but have yet to achieve the runny yolk along with the cooked whites. Each time I have done it, I have left them in the CVap overnight.

[Renn]

One process that I have not had much success with yet, though I am getting closer, is cooking the perfectly poached egg. I have tried cooking them at 147ºF, cracked into a covered ramekin, but have yet to achieve the runny yolk along with the cooked whites. Each time I have done it, I have left them in the CVap overnight.

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Any theories as to why this is such a challenge? It certainly doesn't seem intuitive given your experience thus far.

Just as a point of comparison...here's an egg that I tossed into a regular oven at 150F for approx 2 hours. Given the heat transfer characteristics of normal ovens...I'd guess that it's what you might be targeting in terms of the final texture (i.e. 147F)?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/235983...5e56769.jpg?v=0

Edited July 22, 2008 by Renn (log)

[docsconz]

One process that I have not had much success with yet, though I am getting closer, is cooking the perfectly poached egg. I have tried cooking them at 147ºF, cracked into a covered ramekin, but have yet to achieve the runny yolk along with the cooked whites. Each time I have done it, I have left them in the CVap overnight.

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Any theories as to why this is such a challenge? It certainly doesn't seem intuitive given your experience thus far.

Just as a point of comparison...here's an egg that I tossed into a regular oven at 150F for approx 2 hours. Given the heat transfer characteristics of normal ovens...I'd guess that it's what you might be targeting in terms of the final texture (i.e. 147F)?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/235983...5e56769.jpg?v=0

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I have no doubt that the right consistency can be achieved. I have been hoping to do it with the utmost ease, so that the eggs are ready when I get up in the morning.

[jackal10]

What you are trying for is not possible.

Although there is a slight spread of temperatures for the different protein components, egg whites coagulate at 65C/150F and egg yolks at the lower temperature of 60C/140F.

In normal cooking, such as a five minute boiled egg you rely on the slow heat transfer and the shielding of the egg white to give a soft centre.

IF you cook for long time low temperature the temperature will stabilse and you won't get this effect.

Edited July 23, 2008 by jackal10 (log)

[docsconz]

What you are trying for is not possible.

Although there is a slight spread of temperatures for the different protein components, egg whites coagulate at 65C/150F and egg yolks at the lower temperature of 60C/140F.

In normal cooking, such as a five minute boiled egg you rely on the slow heat transfer and the shielding of the egg white to give a soft centre.

IF you cook for long time low temperature  the temperature will stabilse and you won't get this effect.

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Interesting information, thank you. I was basing my quest on this post. I will change my focus as what you say corresponds to my experience. I'm glad that the issue is not the CVap itself.

[slkinsey]

What you are trying for is not possible.

Although there is a slight spread of temperatures for the different protein components, egg whites coagulate at 65C/150F and egg yolks at the lower temperature of 60C/140F.

Could you explain where you got this information. It is not consistent with the information I have. For example, Food Chemistry by Hans-Dieter Belitz, et al. says on page 561: "Egg white begins to coagulate at 62C and egg yolk at 65C." In fact. I don't think I've ever read anything saying that yolks coagulate at a lower temperature than whites. Plenty of us have made "spring eggs" with set whites and liquid yolks using a temperature controlled water bath.

[docsconz]

What you are trying for is not possible.

Although there is a slight spread of temperatures for the different protein components, egg whites coagulate at 65C/150F and egg yolks at the lower temperature of 60C/140F.

Could you explain where you got this information. It is not consistent with the information I have. For example, Food Chemistry by Hans-Dieter Belitz, et al. says on page 561: "Egg white begins to coagulate at 62C and egg yolk at 65C." In fact. I don't think I've ever read anything saying that yolks coagulate at a lower temperature than whites. Plenty of us have made "spring eggs" with set whites and liquid yolks using a temperature controlled water bath.

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McGee supports what you have to say. On page 85 of the latest edition of On Food and Cooking he states:

Egg white begins to thicken at 145ºF/63ºC and becomes a tender solid when it reaches 150ºF/65ºC. This solidification is due to the most heat-sensitive protein, ovotransferrin, even though it's only 12% of the total protein. The major albumen protein, ovalbumen, doesn't coagulate until about 180ºF/80ºC, at which temperature the tender white gets much firmer....The yolk proteins begin to thicken at 150ºF and set at 158ºF/70º C and whole egg-the yolk and white mixed together- sets around 165ºF/73ºC.

Given that, I don't see why my quest for an overnight egg cooked at 147ºF with a somewhat coagulated white and a runny yolk should be so elusive and certainly not impossible.

[docsconz]

The other night I cooked sea scallops at 130ºF for 10 minutes, then quickly seared them.

While the sear could have been better, the texture and flavor were excellent. I added a little lemon zest and covered them with some Saran wrap while they were in the CVap.

[docsconz]

Earlier today I tried my hand at some eggs using a limited time cooking approach. I took two eggs and put each of them into separate buttered ramekins and a third I left in the shell.

I put them into the CVap at 147ºF set for 75º. I checked on them after 47 minutes.

They appeared to be done, so I removed them from the CVap.

I added salt and pepper and put my spoon into the yolk.

The yolk was delightfully runny, though the whites could have been slightly more set for perfection.

I cracked the egg in the shell and placed the egg into another ramekin.

Interestingly the yolk was more set in this egg, having the rubbery consistency described elsewhere. The white meanwhile was set similarly to those in the ramekins. All the eggs were delicious.

[adey73]

Any more news on your Cvap John? Did you carry out Nathan's experiments and how accurate is it?

As Studiokitchen is back I spotted this post http://studiokitchen.typepad.com/studiokit...t-of-water.html

[docsconz]

Any more news on your Cvap John? Did you carry out Nathan's experiments and how accurate is it?

As Studiokitchen is back I spotted this post http://studiokitchen.typepad.com/studiokit...t-of-water.html

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I have been using my CVap to good effect, but I haven't tried much new with it for a while.

Here is a video and recipe via Starchefs of Wylie Dufresne using the CVap for cauliflower and turbot. I will have to try something like this.