A new take on developing a dish?

[Corinna Dunne]

There’s been much discussion on Heston’s philosophy on food, his interest in stimulating childhood food memories, his magic water and whether these elements add or detract from the dining experience. I am interested to know if any chefs in the UK have developed dishes that reflect a story or concept or if this approach by Kevin Thornton in the Sunday Business Post yesterday is a new departure.

His description of the scallop dish is as follows:

The dish reflects the past, present and future of Ireland: the peas represent the green land, the black squid ink sauce represents the pain and hardship experienced from the famine to the troubles, the scallop represents the sea all around us, the caviar is a reflection of the modern wealthy Ireland of today and the gold leaf represents hope for our future.

I enjoy Kevin Thornton’s column (a nice read last week on sea urchins), but this all sounds a bit ‘Painted Word’.

However, the recipe, which lists 4 salmon eggs, 5g leek puree, 5g scallop roe powder, 5g trompette de la mort powder, 8g oscietra caviar and 1 gold leaf among the ingredients, certainly provides a welcome balance to Cheat’s Ingredients fatigue.

[RDB]

What a load of absolute nonsense, I think that man is a little unhinged and certainly never got over losing his second star. All very embarassing.

Also I lived through the troubles and it never once reminded me of black squid ink

[sunbeam]

His description of the scallop dish is as follows:

The dish reflects the past, present and future of Ireland: the peas represent the green land, the black squid ink sauce represents the pain and hardship experienced from the famine to the troubles, the scallop represents the sea all around us, the caviar is a reflection of the modern wealthy Ireland of today and the gold leaf represents hope for our future.

I enjoy Kevin Thornton’s column (a nice read last week on sea urchins), but this all sounds a bit ‘Painted Word’.

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Thats straight into private eye's pseuds corner. Mind you I had a dish in Mallorca last year where the dry ice was apparently supposed to be the early morning mist over the fields.

Ole

S

[CalumC]

Whats that in the distance. Oh, its a man screaming pretentious. Thats right.

[Tim Hayward]

I spent a previous life researching and teaching methods for generating ideas and solving creative problems.

There are two things that jump out of this statement for me.

1. Any really creative individual pulls stimulus from all over the shop. I'd love to think more chefs were using historical, political and cultural inspiration - or even, frankly, reading the occasional book rather than just having them ghosted for them. If we want innovation in our food (another argument altogether) then we really need people to at least try thinking this way. It should be encouraged.

2. Being sucessful as a creative is not like O level maths, you don't get any points for 'showing your workings'; in fact you can almost guarantee a trip to pseuds corner and oblivion.

In the end, for me, it boils down to this. If the dish is excellent then he's slightly embarrassingly talkative, which is usually forgivable. If the dish is crap, he's a wanker.

[Andy Lynes]

I had a dish in Mallorca last year where the  dry ice was apparently supposed to be the early morning mist over the fields.

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By using dry ice, chefs have already looked to prog rock for creative inspiration in presenting dishes. Now I want to see them go one further and look to the works of Caravan, Gentle Giant, Marillion Genesis and Yes for ideas for the dishes themselves. Imagine "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" made flesh by Andoni Aduriz, or "Tales From Topographic Ocean" interpreted as a tasting menu by René Redzepi.

Or they could just cook some nice food inspired by - and this is just off the top of my head of course - ingredients?

Edited March 4, 2008 by Andy Lynes (log)

[Corinna Dunne]

I spent a previous life researching and teaching methods for generating ideas and solving creative problems.

There are two things that jump out of this statement for me.

1. Any really creative individual pulls stimulus from all over the shop. I'd love to think more chefs were using historical, political and cultural inspiration - or even, frankly, reading the occasional book rather than just having them ghosted for them. If we want innovation in our food (another argument altogether) then we really need people to at least try thinking this way. It should be encouraged.

2. Being sucessful as a creative is not like O level maths, you don't get any points for 'showing your workings'; in fact you can almost guarantee a trip to pseuds corner and oblivion.

In the end, for me, it boils down to this. If the dish is excellent then he's slightly embarrassingly talkative, which is usually forgivable. If the dish is crap, he's a wanker.

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I’m all for unusual starting points for idea generation (‘get fired’ come up with an idea that will get you the sack) but less enthusiastic about ‘deep and meaningful’ artist-with-a-mission type statements, they’d quickly put me off my food. And this one just sounds so naive and unresolved, I’d hate to hear him coming out with more of the same.

But I agree, the bottom line is how the dish tastes… I’ve never been treated to any back stories on the food when I’ve eaten in Thornton’s so hopefully all is well.

Actually there's the makings of a variation on the menu game here. Pseud Food: here's the dish, what's the concept?

[Gary Marshall]

Or they could just cook some nice food inspired by - and this is just off the top of my head of course - ingredients?

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Andy you're sooo old fashioned, get with the programme grandad

[naebody]

Once anyone in a creative trade feels it is necessary to use the word "represents", they're fucked, basically.

The oddest thing is that scallop, peas, squid ink, caviar and gold leaf don't seem even remotely Irish. A true artist would have refused to compromise and offered up potato, stout, clover, Semtex and a punch in the face at a wedding.

Edited March 4, 2008 by naebody (log)

[RDB]

Once anyone in a creative trade feels it is necessary to use the word "represents", they're fucked, basically.

The oddest thing is that scallop, peas, squid ink, caviar and gold leaf don't seem even remotely Irish. A true artist would have refused to compromise and offered up potato, stout, clover, Semtex and a punch in the face at a wedding.

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Come on Naebody surely a man of Celtic origins like yerself, would not make such a botanical error?

Or did you mean to say clover "represents" shamrock??

[HannaBanana]

....

The oddest thing is that scallop, peas, squid ink, caviar and gold leaf don't seem even remotely Irish. A true artist would have refused to compromise and offered up potato, stout, clover, Semtex and a punch in the face at a wedding.

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And as Stout goes with everything, there'd be no need for high falutin' wine pairings, either.

[RocketChef]

There’s been much discussion on Heston’s philosophy on food, his interest in stimulating childhood food memories, his magic water and whether these elements add or detract from the dining experience. I am interested to know if any chefs in the UK have developed dishes that reflect a story or concept or if this approach by Kevin Thornton in the Sunday Business Post yesterday is a new departure.

His description of the scallop dish is as follows:

The dish reflects the past, present and future of Ireland: the peas represent the green land, the black squid ink sauce represents the pain and hardship experienced from the famine to the troubles, the scallop represents the sea all around us, the caviar is a reflection of the modern wealthy Ireland of today and the gold leaf represents hope for our future.

I enjoy Kevin Thornton’s column (a nice read last week on sea urchins), but this all sounds a bit ‘Painted Word’.

However, the recipe, which lists 4 salmon eggs, 5g leek puree, 5g scallop roe powder, 5g trompette de la mort powder, 8g oscietra caviar and 1 gold leaf among the ingredients, certainly provides a welcome balance to Cheat’s Ingredients fatigue.

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All creative people need inspired, the problems just arrive when feel they have to explain it..

You should taste a dish & draw you own collusions as to its heritage, without influence from the Chefs poetry book. When you explain in this way you alter the perception before tasting. This can be a useful tool in the right hands, but your desire to stamp a mark on your creation should leave room for customer perception & should not be a dialogue of singular thought from the kitchen.

Next thing you know we wont be offering salt at the table!

[Pebs]

Where's the cream of potato blight soup?

Cindy

[CheGuevara]

There’s been much discussion on Heston’s philosophy on food, his interest in stimulating childhood food memories, his magic water and whether these elements add or detract from the dining experience. I am interested to know if any chefs in the UK have developed dishes that reflect a story or concept or if this approach by Kevin Thornton in the Sunday Business Post yesterday is a new departure.

His description of the scallop dish is as follows:

The dish reflects the past, present and future of Ireland: the peas represent the green land, the black squid ink sauce represents the pain and hardship experienced from the famine to the troubles, the scallop represents the sea all around us, the caviar is a reflection of the modern wealthy Ireland of today and the gold leaf represents hope for our future.

I enjoy Kevin Thornton’s column (a nice read last week on sea urchins), but this all sounds a bit ‘Painted Word’.

However, the recipe, which lists 4 salmon eggs, 5g leek puree, 5g scallop roe powder, 5g trompette de la mort powder, 8g oscietra caviar and 1 gold leaf among the ingredients, certainly provides a welcome balance to Cheat’s Ingredients fatigue.

←

All creative people need inspired, the problems just arrive when feel they have to explain it..

You should taste a dish & draw you own collusions as to its heritage, without influence from the Chefs poetry book. When you explain in this way you alter the perception before tasting. This can be a useful tool in the right hands, but your desire to stamp a mark on your creation should leave room for customer perception & should not be a dialogue of singular thought from the kitchen.

Next thing you know we wont be offering salt at the table!

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i very much agree with rocket chef - art is about the individual appreciation and emotional response it creates in people.

[Corinna Dunne]

What is art?

[fisherman]

How can someone who namechecks Gentle Giant be old fashioned?

Rock On

Or they could just cook some nice food inspired by - and this is just off the top of my head of course - ingredients?

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Andy you're sooo old fashioned, get with the programme grandad

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[Andy Lynes]

How can someone who namechecks Gentle Giant be old fashioned?

Rock On

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Old fashioned? I'm so up to the minute I even own a Hot Chip cd.

[HannaBanana]

What is art?

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What is de stars?