Reports on Hong Kong dining

canucklehead · March 1, 2008

Here's my (predictable) two cents worth on High End Dim Sum

Most places you go to will cost you about $30-40 per person by the time you work it out.

Fook Lam Moon

The Tsim Tsai Tsui location is superior. What's amazing about this place is that everything is done right - each component of dims sum is perfect. There's no real fireworks - but the service, quality of ingredients, and execution is about as good as it gets.

Victoria Harbour in Wanchai

The food is showier than FLM. Flower Crab with Chinese Wine, roast pork belly, pan fried beef buns, steamed chicken buns are all very good.

hzrt8w · March 1, 2008

Ah Leung, how much did your lunch end up costing, if I may ask? Was all that food just for the two of you?
And of the "posh" dim sum places you went to, which was your favourite in terms of quality of food (flavour)?
And which dim sum place, posh or not, was your favourite over all?

No problem at all. Maybe I will include some info on the meal's cost for the readers in my posts. I am a computer consultant, which means that I can be eating candie bars for lunch and dining in a five star restaurant in the same day as a matter of life. In my last trip to Hong Kong, we ate at pricey places as well as hole-in-the-wall outfits. As long as the food tastes good, everything else to me is secondary.

Most of the meals were just for the two of us, me and my wife. And you can probably tell from the pictures. The lunch for two at Maxim's Palace costed about HKD$550 (around USD$70), with 10% customary gratuity included.

I hadn't been to too many dim sum (yum cha) places in Hong Kong during this trip. As much as I love dim sums, I couldn't have it everyday and I loved to experience other food as well. So I really can't provide much of a comparison. I haven't been to Fuk Lum Moon (inked for next trip). I agree with canuklehead that the dim sums at Victoria City are "showier" - quite tasty and very good presentation (e.g. XO sauce pan-fried cheung fun). I like Maxim's Palace for its traditional dim sum offers, a very modern, spacious, comfortable seating with a view (Remember the "Lin Hsang" tea house that Anthony Bourdain's been too - it's rubbing elbow crowded and they had to go to the kitchen to get some dim sums; Or that I have heard horror stories of the rude waiters at "Luk Yu".).

There are plenty of brand names with good reputation. I will cite some but I haven't been to them for years and years.

Flower Lounge

East Ocean

Fook Yuen

(et.)

The Maxim's chain has pretty good reputation for their many different locations (I had another dim sum lunch at their location inside the Hong Kong International Airport. The dim sum was pretty much just as good.) Perhaps you can try them upon arrival or departure to/from HKG.

RE: "gweilo"

The literal translation of it in Chinese means "the ghost (male)". It means "foreigner(s)". This term is used so often over the years that it seems there is no more derogatory meaning (than a century ago).

Edited March 1, 2008 by hzrt8w (log)

hzrt8w · March 1, 2008

Here's my (predictable) two cents worth on High End Dim Sum
Most places you go to will cost you about $30-40 per person by the time you work it out.
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Was this in USD or Canadian dollar? (I guess in today's rate it doesn't matter. :laugh: ) Not in HKD I am sure.

The figure certainly depends on what one orders. I mean... suckling pigs, crab roe dumplings and XO sauce cheung fun would definitely cost more. I agree that your figure is a good estimate in general.

canucklehead · March 3, 2008

My figures were in C$ - which is equivalent to US$ these days (yeah!).

I tend not to order fancy things - I like simple things done very very well. Real attention to detail and top flight ingredients win me over everytime. So that means that even in fancy places - I get away cheap!

Re: 'gweilo' - definitely the term is not used in a derogatory fashion anymore - in fact it can be a term of endearment. That being said though - I am not comfortable with it's usage. Perhaps its because, while growing up in Canada, I did see the pointy end of the racism stick and now - I don't like racially derogatory terms of any sort.

Edited March 3, 2008 by canucklehead (log)

sheetz · March 3, 2008

Is dim sum in HK still mostly served from carts? I had heard that many restaurants have moved to menu style ordering.

junehl · March 3, 2008

Sorry for being off topic...I've never known gweilo was used as a derogatory term. So that's pretty new and shocking to me. We used it at the restaurant my parents owned all the time. We've always used that to refer to caucasians.

If I was told I couldn't use that anymore, I wouldn't know what to call them in Cantonese!

hzrt8w · March 3, 2008

Is dim sum in HK still mostly served from carts? I had heard that many restaurants have moved to menu style ordering.
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It's a mix. Most restaurants for the commoners are still serving dim sum with carts. The more "showier" restaurants do the menu ordering ritual. And every few minutes, they send a waitstaff to bring out some "specials" from the kitchen on a plastic serving tray to entice diners.

The new trend is that some restaurants set up "cooking stations". Like laksa said, they are bringing the kitchen out to the dining room. They use the cooking stations to deep-fry or pan-fry "stuff", like bell-pepper/egg-plants/tofo stuffed with fish cake, or beef organ kind of thing.

Edited March 3, 2008 by hzrt8w (log)

hzrt8w · March 3, 2008

If I was told I couldn't use that anymore, I wouldn't know what to call them in Cantonese!
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The polite, PC way would be calling the "Sai Yun" (West People - westerners).

prasantrin · March 4, 2008

Thanks canucklehead and Ah Leung! I'm just trying to get a handle on prices, so I can decide where to splurge. Cheap eats are plenty available, but we'd like to do a few higher-end places that my friend doesn't normally get to try (her husband is what Ah Leung affectionately refers to as one of the "commons", so he tends to balk at paying high prices for food).

She just emailed that Yung Kee is also number one on her list of places to try (and her husband wants to come, too!), so that will be one of our splurge places, and I think either Victoria (is it really called Victoria Harbour, or is it Victoria City Seafood?) or Fook Lam will be our splurge dim sum place. I have at least 16 meals (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) in HK, so we can fit a few more in there somewhere, but the rest will probably be cheap eats and snacks. :smile:

Bu Pun Su · March 4, 2008

Here is probably more appropriate place to post my experience at Caprice

I (usually) go to HK almost once a year around December. And this time, I visited Caprice, the signature restaurant of Four Seasons HK. Some would say that Caprice is the “mini” Le Cinq since the chef de cuisine, pastry chef, maitre d’hotel as well as the sommelier used to work with Phillipe Legendre in Paris. Since I have never been to Le Cinq, I could not comment how “similar” Caprice is to Le Cinq

Food/Wine (92/92)

The bread is normal and good. I try the baguette, olives and wheat bread … but the butter is special – it’s the Bordier’s from Saint Malo, I never find Asian restaurants using this butter even though it’s slightly inferior to the one in L’Arpege (not as salty). For the main course, after the discussion with Monsieur Jeremy Evrard, we decide to change about 1/3 of the tasting menu (a taste of Caprice) to be more “French”. So, here what I have

-lobster carpaccio is light and fresh combined with the acidity from yuzu mousse and a bit saltiness from Aquitane caviar … simple and good

- black truffle ravioli served with caramelized artichoke is not too bad

- the winter vegetables consist of some potatoes and onions, the best part is the Jabugo ham, the best cured jamon ham I’ve ever had

- my fav. dish of the night is the langoustine a la plancha. The langoustine’s tastiness is intensified with the girolle fricassee and balanced by the local asparagus. Well done!

- the red mullert fillet is OK, I find that the eggplant is a bit too dominant since the fish’s meat is quite bland

- I ate the game dish for my main course: hare a la royale. The dish is prepared is it’s supposed to be (traditionally French), but it’s simply not for me. I find it too soft and too tense (a combination of red wine, foie gras and black truffle) – without the linguini pasta as a side dish, I might not even be able to finish half of it

- the cheese is from Alsace’s Bernard Antony (if not mistaken only 2 places in HK has such cheese - Petrus would be the other one). I loved my 4-year old comte and mimolette (hard but not crumbly, mild and nutty – perfectly paired with a small glass of white Belgium beer), the mont d’or is also quite good

- the 1st dessert is a mixture of baked meringue’s sweetness with chesnut puree and the bitter/sour of the “grapefruit” – very refreshing especially after the cheese and my wild rabbit

- the 2nd dessert theme is (dark) chocolate - it’s melting and bitter, the nutty flavor is good

Overally, I am satisfied with my tasting menu – I don’t regret my choice of hare since I need to try it soon or later. For me, the food here is about equal to Sant Pau Tokyo (92/100 – it’s a low 2 ½ star)

This degustation menu is accompanied by a half-bottle of white Burgundy. The sommelier recommended 2004 Puligny Montrachet 1st cru, domaine JM Boillot. It has the aromas of fresh mango and nuts with lovely intensity. In addition, it's also quite crisp and well-balanced with fine acidity. It goes well especially with my crustacean dishes

Service/Decoration (94/92)

The staffs here are friendly and courteous, honestly the maitre d did make a difference. I was lucky since I was served by him at the beginning (during the menu decision) and he did it as smooth as any 3-star manager in Europe. Even for the local staffs – they’re above average, only Pierre HK may “beat” them, but definitely above the rather poor service I had at Robuchon Galera and Gaddi’s. Here, my napkin was always replaced with a new one whenever I left my table

The restaurant, located at the 6th floor, is quite big (it should be able to sit in about 100 people at the same time). My dining table is very nice – at the “lower” lever overlooking the spectacular Kowloon Peninsula. The sofa chair with a pillow to support your back is really spacious and comfortable. Even though the dining room can be said luxurious with several giant chandeliers, but the atmosphere here is not stuffy at all. The kitchen is “open” – you can see them in action without having to worry about the smoke to “dirty” your clothes. Lastly, the price here I would say is quite reasonable. My tasting menu is almost USD 30 cheaper than Pierre or Atelier JR in HK. I would be happy to conclude that so far Caprice is the best French restaurant in Asia (exclude Japan of course). The score for the overall experience is 92.5/100 (2.5-star)

Pictures, please visit - Caprice HK

Thanks

hzrt8w · March 5, 2008

Day 2: In between meals... The Mandarin Connection

Right outside of City Hall, I ran into an ice-cream vendor. Still doing this the old fashion way... The ice chest was attached to the frame of a bicycle. The image of my father taking me to City Hall and buying me an icecream cone immediately flashed back in my mind... that was almost half a century ago. Father... this one is for you! Icecream cone from the Dairy Farm. The taste changed very little over the years. Now that there is more chocolate covering the top. Just as good as I remember.

Can't eat icecream without some soda! My old friend: Cocacola! It's good that companies like Coke do very good jobs in quality control. The soda is bottled locally in Hong Kong... but Coke around the world would probably taste the same. Hong Kong (China) is doing all kinds of preparations and promotions for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Note the "Olympic"ish and "08" in the can's design.

We passed by The Mandarin Hotel, Central in the afternoon. Nope... too full to have an afternoon tea there (though it would be a good idea). I was awed by the dessert and chocolate they displayed on the counter. Some chocolate cakes. Okay... that's ordinary enough...

A pineapple. What's so special about that? Well, look closer... this was not a real pineapple. It is a pineapple made with candy/chocolate (I am not sure which, or may be it's a combination of both).

A "Ronald Abram" shirt. Made of white and regular chocolate. Some "golden frog" buttons. Very cute!

The most impressive piece was this one. They show-cased a Chinese legendary figure "Sheung Ngall" (the one who flew to the moon) made of chocolate and/or candy. Very nice indeed.

In Day 2's evening, I met up with my high-school buddy whom I have seen for 20 years. He took me to a private club for a dinner and dance party (ballroom dance: e.g. tango, cha cha, waltz, fours, etc.). During the party I met up with more high school classmates... people whom I haven't see for over 30 years! All under one roof! Together we celebrated one of our high-school teacher's 70th birthday. It's amazing how much they have changed (the look), and how much they haven't changed (the character and the voice) over the years. 30 years of your life passes you by like minutes. So... lesson learned - enjoy every minute of life when you can. Eat, Eat Well, and Eat Well Often (my motto)! Taking pictures were discouraged in the club. Sorry.

Edited March 5, 2008 by hzrt8w (log)

hzrt8w · March 5, 2008

.....
Cheap eats are plenty available, but we'd like to do a few higher-end places that my friend doesn't normally get to try (her husband is what Ah Leung affectionately refers to as one of the "commons", so he tends to balk at paying high prices for food).
←

Affectionately? Oh yeah! I am one of the commoners. :laugh: Son of a working class single father raising four kids, I only dined at places for the commoners in Hong Kong growing up.

In Hong Kong there is a whole range of restaurants in different price scales, from the commoners', the elites' to the obscenely, outrageously over-priced. High prices would pretty much guarantee good service, and usually (but not always) food deliciousness. However, there are gems to be found in many hole-in-the-wall outfits. It is good to experience places in different ends of the price spectrum to understand our culture.

Edited March 5, 2008 by hzrt8w (log)

Ben Hong · March 5, 2008

If I was told I couldn't use that anymore, I wouldn't know what to call them in Cantonese!
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The polite, PC way would be calling the "Sai Yun" (West People - westerners).
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Or, lo fan.

canucklehead · March 5, 2008

What does 'lo fan' actually mean? The use of 'lo' makes me assume is a honorific - but it's always best not to assume anything when it comes to Cantonese slang.

Edited March 5, 2008 by canucklehead (log)

insomniac · March 5, 2008

What does 'lo fan' actually mean?

I believe that lo fan simply means foreigner whereas 'gwai' is a demon rather than a ghost and used to be perjorative....today no-one I know takes offence at gwai lo or gwai po....like many words in English it has long lost its sting....

jo-mel · March 5, 2008

In Hong Kong there is a whole range of restaurants in different price scales, from the commoners', the elites' to the obscenely, outrageously over-priced. High prices would pretty much guarantee good service, and usually (but not always) food deliciousness. However, there are gems to be found in many hole-in-the-wall outfits. It is good to experience places in different ends of the price spectrum to understand our culture.
←

Over the years, during my visits, I guess I've eated in every price range and quality spectrum in Hong Kong. And what came to mind -- immediately -- after reading this post? a little congee and noodle place near the hotel I was in when I was there for the changover. They had the best Yi Fu Mian I'd ever had and I couldn't get enough of them. Give me the hole-in-the-walls anytime!

hzrt8w · March 5, 2008

What does 'lo fan' actually mean? The use of 'lo' makes me assume is a honorific - but it's always best not to assume anything when it comes to Cantonese slang.
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"Lo" literally means "old". In Chinese (not just Cantonese) it's more like "good old" and not referring to age. It doesn't have a negative connotation. "Fan" is a generic label for foreigner.

Now back to the regular food programming...

hzrt8w · March 6, 2008

Day 3: Breakfast... There Will Be Blood

Day break. After the jet-lag sleeplessness, I finally managed to get some good night sleep. I wanted some jook (congee) for breakfast, just like old time! We wandered into the neighborhood Whampoa residential buildings. I was hoping to find some old style jook specialty restaurants along Mo Wu Street in the older neighbood of Hung Hom. Disappointedly, I found none. At the verge of dispair, I saw a fairly new jook specialty "fast food" outfit in front of me. They serve the old fashioned Cantonese jook "fast food" style: pay the cashier, get the tickets, get your food from the counter, put them on a tray and sit anywhere you want.

A bowl of "Zhee Hung Jook" (pork blood congee). The pork blood was quite fresh: soft and liquidity, not like those I got in the USA where the pork blood cubes are hard and solid. However, the jook base lacked the essential flavor. That's the problem with these new restaurants. The mastery is still lacking. It's safer to go to those old restaurants who have been around forever and ever.

A bowl of "ngau yuk" jook (beef congee). In Hong Kong, beef congee is understood to be made with ground beef, mixed with deep-fried mung bean threads. I don't know what's with the Chinese restaurants in the USA. Whenever I ordered "beef congee" or "ground beef congee" (doesn't matter), they would give me these congee made with cleaver-chopped beef (not ground). And never (so far) with deep-fried mung bean threads. I don't know why that is. It is something so simple to make. I just don't know why it was never done the Hong Kong way.

An order of fried crueller, cut.

One good way to have it is to let it soak in the hot congee for a minute and eat with the congee.

A plate of steamed "cheung fun" (rice noodle sheets). Topped with sesame seeds, sweet sauce and sesame sauce. A bit of hot sauce on the side.

I think this is uniquely a Hong Kong creation: "Zha Leung" - deep-fried crueller with steamed rice noodle sheet wrapped around it. This is a very popular breakfast item in Hong Kong.

Topped with some dark soy sauce. Crispy fried-dough texture wrapped by soft rice noodle texture. Isn't that weird?

After stuffing ourselves with the above items, my wife didn't pass up this opportunithy to have a "jeen dui" [Cantonese], or "see doi" in Toisanese(??). The dough is made from sticky rice flour, deep-fried and coated with sesame seeds. The filling is a little bit of "lin yung" (grounded lotus seeds). It's sweet and chewy. A dessert, sort of.

BonVivant · March 6, 2008

first sorry if this is slightly off topic... i'm pretty sure this is the correct address for Quarterdeck seafood restaurant in TST Shop OTG53, Ground Floor, Ocean Terminal. i have no success finding their website and/or (wine) menu. all i know is it's Aussie and has stunning views of the harbour. planning to go there next monday to spoil myself :biggrin: and a bottle of Bollinger would be very agreeable for the occasion.

[if Cha Xiu Bao is reading this... thank you for that blog entry!]

Laksa · March 6, 2008

After stuffing ourselves with the above items, my wife didn't pass up this opportunithy to have a "jeen dui" [Cantonese], or "see doi" in Toisanese(??).
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I never say no to "jeen dui" either. Lotus or red bean paste, bring them on!

I can never remember what these guys are called. (In Foochow, we call them something else). I've tried to order them in restaurants with less than successful results. I've made up names for them - "zee mah kao" was what I tried last time and I usually get blank stares in return. The mistake is often compounded by my poor Cantonese pronunciation. The better waitresses sometimes are able to read my mind (or can see where my fingers are pointing) and bring me what I want.

What are the Chinese characters for "jeen dui"? Also, can you help with the pronunciation tones? ;-)

prasantrin · March 6, 2008

first sorry if this is slightly off topic... i'm pretty sure this is the correct address for Quarterdeck seafood restaurant in TST Shop OTG53, Ground Floor, Ocean Terminal. i have no success finding their website and/or (wine) menu. all i know is it's Aussie and has stunning views of the harbour. planning to go there next monday to spoil myself and a bottle of Bollinger would be very agreeable for the occasion.
[if Cha Xiu Bao is reading this... thank you for that blog entry!]
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This website gives an email address. Maybe they'll fax or email you a menu.

I hate to toot my own horn, but I'm good! :biggrin:

Edited March 6, 2008 by prasantrin (log)

BonVivant · March 6, 2008

what a coincident. as i'm waiting for the site to load [taking aaaaaaaaages and still going nowhere!] thought i'd answer my own question that i've finally found their website. unfortunately the menu button is useless. so long as they have fresh seafood, spectacular views, and {aussie?} bubbly then i'm in heaven :wub:

many thanks, Pasantrin. gotta pack before the night is over [10pm now]

prasantrin · March 6, 2008

what a coincident. as i'm waiting for the site to load [taking aaaaaaaaages and still going nowhere!] thought i'd answer my own question that i've finally found their website. unfortunately the menu button is useless. so long as they have fresh seafood, spectacular views, and {aussie?} bubbly then i'm in heaven
many thanks, Pasantrin. gotta pack before the night is over [10pm now]
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Just a precaution, when I googled using their phone number (you get more precise hits using a phone number rather than a name), the number also came up as the fax number for some kind of GLBT organisation, and I found no reviews past 2006 (and much of what I read wasn't very positive). If the place still exists, let us know if it's any good. Maybe I can add it to my list!

hzrt8w · March 6, 2008

What are the Chinese characters for "jeen dui"? Also, can you help with the pronunciation tones? ;-)
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The Chinese characters are:

煎堆

Cantonese pronounciations:

"Geen" - Like the liquor Gin, just elongate the "eeeee" vowel.

"Dui" - That's a hard one. Like the "OY" in Oyster, but put a "D" in front of it.

CFT · March 7, 2008

The Chinese characters are:
煎堆
Cantonese pronounciations:
"Geen" - Like the liquor Gin, just elongate the "eeeee" vowel.
"Dui" - That's a hard one. Like the "OY" in Oyster, but put a "D" in front of it.
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煎 - http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi...ch.php?q=%B7%CE (sound file)

堆 - http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi...ch.php?q=%B0%EF (sound file)

Edited March 7, 2008 by CFT (log)