The State of French Dining

[lxt]

Lxt. Where is Maxence?

Robert, here is a review by Patricia Wells in the International Herald Tribune of David Van Laer and his restaurants among which is Le Maxence (Steve P. please note).

[John Whiting]

Why are we continually surprised that small restaurants and small farms, which demand devotion to a way of life which requires long hours in return for modest recompense, are both gradually disappearing? Young people simply aren't interested in working long isolated hours for peanuts, in return for the dismissive jeers of their contemporaries. Those who want to be chefs are ultimately after high-profile, high-reward jobs.

Ironically, the modest old-fashioned establishments are most likely to see a revival if a serious recession forces many of us back into more modest occupations.

[Wilfrid]

Here is the question that I have for the braintrust here.

(Thinks: He must mean me.)

Seriously, not that there's any precise system to the use of this kind of terminology, I recall the phrase cuisine classique being much used to describe relatively straightforward preparations of exceptionally fine ingredients. Roast chicken with a little tarragon and a few asparagus spears. Lamb chops with a gratin. Trout au bleu. Those are a few dishes which spring to mind as examples of cuisine classique. Although the term haute cuisine is used very widely indeed today, I often think it's most appropriately applied to dishes requiring very elaborate preparation, and often accompanied by luxury garnishes (foie gras, caviar, ecrevisses and so on). The lobster sausafe and avocado and caviar mousse sound like good examples. An old fashioned example might be poulet a la financiere.

Do I get a tick?

[mogsob]

My experience in France goes back only to 1984, so I do not have the benefit of historical perspective that others on the board can justly claim (that's a nice way of putting it, no?).

That said, I don't see the sky falling on French cuisine any time soon, but the so-called "decline" I think is attributed to a few factors:

1. The decline of formal dining. French restaurants set the standard for formal dining -- at one time, formal dining in NY was exclusively French and for the most part, still is. Formal dining is where cuisine reaches its apex, perhaps due to the high prices such restaurants can command. But more and more, these temples of haute cuisine are being monopolized by the businessman, who cares less about the quality of the meal than he does about the atmosphere and the service (or indeed the conversation at the table). So quality inevitably slips. If the grand restaurants of France are not what they were, this may be the cause.

2. The world around France has grown up. Thirty years ago no one would suggest that the best restaurant in NY served "American" cuisine. Or that the best restaurants in London were not French. But just as France has assimilated many ingredients from the rest of the world, the rest of the world has assimilated French technique. What is Gramercy Tavern if not a restaurant that applies French cooking techniques to American ingredients and flavors. The greatness of French cuisine has always been the superiority of technique -- now that gap has been bridged.

3. Longing for the way things were. The book "The Elusive Truffle" summed it up best. French restaurants are changing. Family establishments are no longer the norm and restaurants are more and more a business focused on the bottom line. Profit maximizing will always hurt the consumer and the sheer generosity of French restaurants is on the decline, both in service and in terms of food. But that does not mean that the quality of the cooking is on the decline.

The only thing I can say about France is this. There is still no country in the world equal in terms of being able to pop into a completely unknown restaurant -- anywhere -- an be totally blown away by the meal. Still happens in France to me -- all the time. And that's my measuring stick.

[robert brown]

Mogsob, unlike you, I must be the gastronomic equivalent of the person who somehow instinctively and inexplicably gets into bad relationshiips. If I go to a restaurant in France without any a priori knowledge, I almost inevitably regret it. I find the phenomenon you talk about much more prevalent in Italy where the odds of walking into a respectable-looking restaurant that serves satisfying meals are more likely to be in the diner's favor.

[Bux]

Bux -I think that much to your chagrin, there is a clear line as to what progress is and when it takes place. Heart valve replacement meant real progress. It wasn't in the eye of the beholder. Same with men on the moon. No way to describe it other then progress. Same when Robuchon made his mashed potatoes. But of course you need taste buds to be able to know that one because it isn't as obvious as walking on the moon. But it's progress nonetheless. Is also isn't just relative. There is a difference in the fish you get in Chinatown and what you get at Le Bernadin. Chinese restaurants are not using artisinal ingredients. The issue is how much on an increment are people willing to pay for theat bit of better quality.

I would need the ability to learn from other's and change my mind, which undoubtedly leaves me more vulnerable to chagrin, but unfortunately in even the most obviously forward motion there is a reaction that may equal the obvious seeming progress. There's always a price to pay for "progress."

I wonder why the men who deliver the live fish to Chinese markets and restaurants are not seen as atrisanal producers by you. Your set of blinders, render suspicious the description of that which you appreciate.

[Bux]

In regard to formal dining, it seems a prerequisite for haute cuisine, but haute, or even good, cooking does not seem necessary for formal dining. I don't think haute cuisine can ever be claimed to offer better food or even more delicious food. It is usually food that's technically difficult to produce and often involves some creativity although classic tour de force will also produce a legitimate haute cuisine dish. I don't know if classic bourgeois cooking can be raised to haute cuisine by the use of long simmered stocks and sauces or not, but I suspect so. Certainly in classic times, one might substitute little puff pastry things for bread croutons and that sort of thing to meet the tecnical requirements.

Nevertheless, it would seem possible for haute cuisine to evolve into a form of creative artistry that did not require formality of setting. Perhaps it's already happening in l'Astrance in Paris, Blue Hill in NYC and elsewhere to different degrees.

[lxt]

Otherwise, I find your frequent potshots at socialism almost as intrusive as John Whiting's constant potshots at capitalism      

Its called balance of power: “A distribution and opposition of forces such that no single person is strong enough to assert his will or dominate all the others.” I am not quite sure whether the position of mediator between John and yours truly would fit your profile either. :raz: :raz:

John you survived your review of Berio. I'd assume anyone else would've lost his job and stretched out his hand for alms. I can’t match that experience. Is there any reason to believe that either of us will survive Steve P.?

[marcus]

I was thinking back to first time I looked at the Michelin guide in the mid 60s and I remember clearly that there were 11 3 star restaurants in France pretty closely as follows:

Paris -- Maxim's, La Tour d'Argent, Laperouse, Lasserre

Provinces -- Hotel de la Poste in Avallon, Cote d'Or in Saulieu, Pyramide in Vienne, Auberge Pere Bise in Talloires, Auberges de Noves, Ousteau de Beaumaniere

The 11th may have been the original Lucas Carton in Paris, but I'm not sure.

It was several years before I started going, and my first 3 star meals were largely in other restaurants with the exception of Tour d'Argent and Lasserre, but I wonder if we were able to line up these restaurants side by side with today's 22 3 star restaurants (counting the 2 Veyrat restaurants as 1) that we would see this decline that is being accepted here as common knowledge. I'm not at all sure.

[robert brown]

Marcus, was Charles Barrier in Tours a three-star back then? When I ate there in the late '70s he had two. I also think he took a hiatus at some point, but that may have been after: or he sold the restaurant and stayed on as a figure head.

[marcus]

Robert, I'm pretty sure that Barrier did not get 3 stars until the sometime in the 70s. I remember his terrine of 3 poissons de la loire as one of the greatest dishes from my culinary experience. The clarity and intensity of each flavor was monumental. I also remember an excellent eel in a brown sauce, but not the specifics. Barrier retired at some point and I don't remember whether he had already lost a star or not. He re-opened several years later with a simpler format and got one star and eventually possibly 2, but my recollection is not clear as I didn't actually go back.

[hollywood]

I was thinking back to first time I looked at the Michelin guide in the mid 60s and I remember clearly that there were 11 3 star restaurants in France pretty closely as follows:

Paris -- Maxim's, La Tour d'Argent, Laperouse, Lasserre

Provinces -- Hotel de la Poste in Avallon, Cote d'Or in Saulieu, Pyramide in Vienne, Auberge Pere Bise in Talloires, Auberges de Noves, Ousteau de Beaumaniere

The 11th may have been the original Lucas Carton in Paris, but I'm not sure.

It was several years before I started going, and my first 3 star meals were largely in other restaurants with the exception of Tour d'Argent and Lasserre, but I wonder if we were able to line up these restaurants side by side with today's 22 3 star restaurants (counting the 2 Veyrat restaurants as 1) that we would see this decline that is being accepted here as common knowledge.  I'm not at all sure.

Didn't L'Oasis in La Napoule have 3 stars?

[marcus]

I don't believe so. I think that Paul Bocuse, Troisgros and Auberge de l'Ill all preceded L'Oasis, which was precedent breaking in that it was the first restaurant on the Riviera to get 3 stars. Common wisdom at that time held that you needed a great cheese service to get 3 stars and that this was not possible in that region. Pic may also have been ahead of l'Oasis, but admittedly this is all ancient history and muddled by the fog of time. Ferdinand Point at La Pyramide actually died in 1955, but his wife was allowed to keep the 3 stars until she retired sometime in the 1970s.

[robert brown]

Marcus, we also had the fish terrine along with the sandre of the Loire. We only went there once, but remember it well. It was a lovely restaurant.

I noticed several months ago when I searched on Google for Guide Michelin a book in French about the history of French restaurants based on Michelin ratings (maybe it was only the three-star ones). As I'm thinking of buying it, has anyone seen or read it? I'll dig up the title/author later unless someone wants to do it before.

[cabrales]

Robert -- My fourth post (yes, I am weakening). The book may be the one described below, which can be purchased online, or at the Michelin boutique in Paris. It has a red cover with three large stars on it, and is available in various languages. It is excellent. The book is:

TROIS ETOILES AU MICHELIN

J.FRANCOIS MESPLEDE

GRUND

REPORTAGES

Prix éditeur : 38€ - 249.26FF - 38.39$ (from chapitre.fr)

The book answers questions about when different chefs had three stars. I have a copy, but lent it out a while ago.

[John Whiting]

lxt wrote

Is there any reason to believe that either of us will survive Steve P.?

Don't worry, he's like the devil -- just someone our parents invented to scare us.

There's an ironic thread which pulls together this topic and the one proceeding from Steve's genuinely poetic account of his visit to Chez Georges. It goes more appropriately with the latter, and so I'll post it there.

[robert brown]

To paraphrase what Bill Clinton said to a questioner during one of his press conferences, "Whiting, you're good."

[robert brown]

Cabrales, that is the book. Can you get it back?

[cabrales]

Robert -- The book excellent, and is available (at least at the Michelin store in Paris) in English. I may not get it back for a month or two. Separately, I have a budding collection of Guide Rouges. However, it does not extend back to the 1960s or 1970s yet.

[robert brown]

The Michelin maps are so good that in 1944 or 1945, the US Army distributed the guide to with special covers to its soldiers for use in the field. (I use the regular editions in fighting the gastronomic battles.)

[robert brown]

Marcus, a tie goes to the poster: Charles Barrier received his third Michelin star in 1965.

[marcus]

Robert, that was just around the time that I became interested in this stuff. I am curious as to whether Barrier (I think they called the restaurant La Negre back then??) is actually my 11th that I can't remember, or is actually #12, because the number did start going up around then.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I wonder why the men who deliver the live fish to Chinese markets and restaurants are not seen as atrisanal producers by you. Your set of blinders, render suspicious the description of that which you appreciate.

Because what they are delivering isn't artisinal. If you want to put it that way, why isn't every delivery man delivering artisinal products?

Since when is a Chinese restaurant in Chinatown offering items like Chatham dayboat cod, or Peconic Bay Scallops, Nova Scotia Lobsters from deep water etc., Sole from the Isle d'Yeau? How about shrimp? I've had loads of plates of steamed fresh shrimp in Chinese restaurants. Do they offer Ruby Reds? Just because it's good quality and fresh, doesn't make it artisinal.

You know while wandering around the Marche Forville in Cannes yesterday morning, I saw a few displays of the famous haricots verts from Kenya that I ate at Chez Georges on monday night. The haricot vert pricing went the following;

normal size - 2.90 per kilo

fine - 5.90 per kilo

extra fine - 7.90 per kilo

Tell me, which Chinese restaurant is it that would use the 7.90 green beans? The one with Chow Fun for a dollar three eighty? Or maybe the place with Wonton Noodle Soup for $3.95 for a large bowl. Or the farm chicken that Passard slow roasted in a pan for two hours that he served. Is that quality chicken available in Pings? Dim Sum GoGo? Japanese restaurants use artisinal ingredients, but I do not know Chinese restaurants to do so. Good quality yes. Artisinal, not to my knowledge.

[robert brown]

Marcus, Barrier falls right on the cusp of when you began to become interested in fine dining in France (I was certainly aware of it at the time since my folks had dined in some of the restaurants when I was a kid), but it was certainly 7-8 years before I had significant first-hand experience, other than a few meals in the early '60s). Regardless, it is a prodigious feat of memory to recall the restaurants that you did. Someone did mention Pic in Valence, but it was not until 1973 that Jacques Pic regained the third star his father lost in the 1940s. Cabrales needs to get that book back.

Steve, the haricots verts I see in the winter in the Marche Forville are from Birkino Faso. Are you sure the season in France is over? This summer we saw native beans in different sizes, which I am not sure you get in the product shipped from Africa. If you saw them marked as being from Kenya, then I have learned something new.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Robert B. - No the "extra fin" were distinctly marked as being from Kenya.