How long should European appliances in France last

[John Talbott]

OK, I purchased this Bauknecht dishwasher on April 23, 1991. It’s worked more or less OK for all that time, using it between 12-52 times a year. A few years ago it began to make grinding/groaning noises and I assumed that was a minor problem and soldiered on. More recently it has been failing to clean the Sun tablet powder off glasses. Now it’s not cleaning things (esp. tea and eggs) from cups and dishes respectively, essentially unless I completely clean them first. And this week, a washer in a connecting line deteriorated and started a leak into my charming downstairs neighbor’s apartment.

As an old person, a Depression baby, I was taught that things last forever. As a guy, I believe I, you, or at least one, can fix anything. However, someone once said that I had to face facts.

So, should I assume that 16 years is not a bad life for an appliance? And mirroring the question about what oven should one purchase, what dishwasher should I look at?

Thank you.

Edited September 7, 2007 by John Talbott (log)

[jackal10]

I am not a dishwasher mechanic but it sounds like not enough water is coming out of the spray arms; either the nozzles are getting blocked or the pump is giving out,

Since you have not used it much I'd check the filters and the nozzles, and de-scale it.. - you can get cleaners and tablets you put in to do this, or failing that manually add a botle of vineagr to the rinse water

[Dave Hatfield]

Dumb question from another dumb old guy.

Have you added the salt?

That's usually the problem when ours starts not cleaning.

[John Talbott]

I am not a dishwasher mechanic but it sounds like not enough water is coming out of the spray arms; either the nozzles are getting blocked or the pump is giving out,

Since you have not used it much I'd check the filters and the nozzles, and de-scale it.. - you can get cleaners and tablets you put in to do this, or failing that manually add a botle of vineagr to the rinse water

Dumb question from another dumb old guy.

Have you added the salt?

That's usually the problem when ours starts not cleaning.

←

Yah yah yah to both of you. I spend more money on anti-calc, vinegar, sel, rincage, etc than on presents for my wife (whoops).

I'd like to move this from trying to fix it to what should I buy next? What are the hot models? How do I avoid spending my life adding anti-calc, vinegar, sel, rincage, etc?

[pierre45]

I am not a dishwasher mechanic but it sounds like not enough water is coming out of the spray arms; either the nozzles are getting blocked or the pump is giving out,

Since you have not used it much I'd check the filters and the nozzles, and de-scale it.. - you can get cleaners and tablets you put in to do this, or failing that manually add a botle of vineagr to the rinse water

Dumb question from another dumb old guy.

Have you added the salt?

That's usually the problem when ours starts not cleaning.

←

Yah yah yah to both of you. I spend more money on anti-calc, vinegar, sel, rincage, etc than on presents for my wife (whoops).

I'd like to move this from trying to fix it to what should I buy next? What are the hot models? How do I avoid spending my life adding anti-calc, vinegar, sel, rincage, etc?

←

I have also given up on a 15 year old german dishwasher.So i wash everything by hand .If you really want a dishwasher go to Darty and speak to a salesperson .

They will take away the old one and install the new.

Good luck.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Your problem: you should have married an engineer. My husband installed our Asko dishwasher in '91. He has made several minor repairs since then, and it hums merrily today. I should add that I essentially prewash everything. However, it is a lovely, compact and out of sight drying and storage rack!

[CaliPoutine]

At first I thought this topic was about a german guy who is employed as a dishwasher working in France. LOLOLOL

[Carlsbad]

pierre45 has the right idea.

[Ptipois]

pierre45 has the right idea.

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I second that.

- The words "programmed obsolescence" have been introduced in Germany too.

- Sixteen years is a decent old age for a dishwasher in the early part of the 3rd millenium.

- Paris municipal water is mighty chalky.

[carlux]

I would definitely recommend a Miele. - expensive but wonderful. Not only are they quiet and efficient, they have the best layout of any dishwashers I have come across, in Canada or in France.

Living in France, where I look after and sometimes equip other people's houses, I have bought Gaggenau, Bosch, Siemens, etc. Depending on the model, some have been better than others.

But the Miele is far and away the best - it has a third tray on the top for cutlery, which gives you more space in the other two - and they say that through some clever German engineering they have not taken any space from the other two.

It may take a while to get used to putting the cutlery there, but once you do, you find that it's much cleaner - no knives leaning up against one another, leaving spots. Each item is laid out in a row.

They make a 45 cm model, in addition to the normal 60 cm. which means that you can get a dishwater into even a small Paris kitchen. And the well designed layout means that you room for get 9 place settings. I used one of these for years very happily.

[Dave Hatfield]

I would definitely recommend a Miele. - expensive but wonderful.  Not only are they quiet and efficient, they have the best layout of any dishwashers I have come across, in Canada or in France. 

Living in France, where I look after and sometimes equip other people's houses, I have bought Gaggenau, Bosch, Siemens, etc.  Depending on the model, some have been better than others.

But the Miele is far and away the best - it has a third tray on the top for cutlery, which gives you more space in the other two - and they say that through some clever German engineering they have not taken any space from the other two.

It may take a while to get used to putting the cutlery there, but once you do, you find that it's much cleaner  - no knives leaning up against one another, leaving spots.  Each item is laid out in a row.

They make a 45 cm model, in addition to the normal 60 cm. which means that you can get a dishwater into even a small Paris kitchen. And the well designed layout means that you room for get 9 place settings.  I used one of these for years very happily.

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All very true, but there seems to be one disadvantage to this type of Miele.

You can't hide it. That is that you can't put a door on the front that matches all of your other cabinets thus hiding the dishwasher.

Or at least that's what we figured out when doing our new kitchen here in France. (there's probably a picture somewhere from when I did a thread on kitchen remodels, but I'm pretty hopeless at finding the links.) We ended up woth a Bosch because we could hide it.

We preferred the Meile for functionality and because of the third shelf, but in this case looks won out.

[naguere]

12 to 52 time a year usage is not very frequent.

Perhaps seals have dried out, bearings got stuck up.

Put some cleaning tabs in and give it four or five cycles.

Failing that, get in a man who can

[menton1]

John, before you buy check out the SMEG Lave-vaisselle. A tremendous product. Wish one could get Smeg here in the US...

[John Talbott]

Thanks all; I'll give one more try to the supercleaning, anticalcification, effort

Then call in a guy who "can do it" (who I trust)

Then go shopping.

Many thanks.

[dls]

12 to 52 time a year usage is not very frequent.

Perhaps seals have dried out, bearings got stuck up.

Put some cleaning tabs in and give it four or five cycles.

Failing that, get in a man who can

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Same thought crossed my mind. I have a second home in Florida that, at the time of purchase, had a dishwasher that was approximately 7 years old. As a rule, I spend about 30% of my time there and, I eat out often. As such, the dishwasher is used around 20 times a year. The prior owner's profile was similar to mine.

After about 3 years, it would not drain completely following a wash cycle. Shortly thereafter, it began leaking when draining. I called a repairman who informed me that a rubber bladder and the seals had dried out and were cracked and non-functioning. Probable cause was lack of use. $200 later, it worked fine for a few months until something else broke. Then, I replaced it.

Doing a little research at the time, I learned that the life expectancy of a dishwasher was 10-12 years. I figured my unit had run its course which, is why I chose to replace it instead of continually having it repaired. At 16 years, your washer has had a pretty good run. If I were you, based upon my own experience, I would start shopping.

[David Naylor]

Yah yah yah to both of you. I spend more money on anti-calc, vinegar, sel, rincage, etc than on presents for my wife (whoops).

I'd like to move this from trying to fix it to what should I buy next? What are the hot models? How do I avoid spending my life adding anti-calc, vinegar, sel, rincage, etc?

←

Relax John

you bought her the dishwasher in the first place, you've bought her all the presents she needs

[carlux]

All very true, but there seems to be one disadvantage to this type of Miele.

You can't hide it. That is that you can't put a door on the front that matches all of your other cabinets thus hiding the dishwasher.

Or at least that's what we figured out when doing our new kitchen here in France. (there's probably a picture somewhere from when I did a thread on kitchen remodels, but I'm pretty hopeless at finding the links.) We ended up woth a Bosch because we could hide it.

We preferred the Meile for functionality and because of the third shelf, but in this case looks won out.

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In fact we bought one which would take a wooden panel on the front. Doesn't hide all the controls, the way some models do, but in our kitchen the walnut panel looks fine. Moe expensive, but as you say, looks do count.

[hughw]

Miele definitely makes fully integrated models with completely hidden controls. Look for "SF" in the model number. Here's one example. http://www.miele.com/usa/dishwashers/produ...77&cat=2&nav=21 We have a 45cm model in our apartment in New York and a 60cm model in our country house. They're exceptionaly quite.

I love the cutlery tray above the two other trays as mentioned by two other posters. It does have one great disadvantage. It can lead to marital discord. I like to put everything in lined up perfectly, spoons with spoons, forks with forks, etc. More stuff fits in and it's very easy to grap a group of like items to put in the drawer. My wife puts then in the tray willy nilly and we're forever battling.

Edited September 19, 2007 by hughw (log)

[John Talbott]

I want to thank everyone.

I went to BHV and for 5.70 E got a sachet of cleaner. I ran it through the long cycle and there was no gnashing/groaning at all.

Then to make sure I ran it with white vinegar in the rinse cycle - some gnashing/groaning.

Finally I ran my regular load of dishes post-couscous and there was no powder left on glasses and no gnashing/groaning. Thanks.

[John Talbott]

An update on the issue of the longevity of food appliances in France.

I won't bore you with the details, but my oven, purchased 17 years ago, made weird clock-clicking sounds and stopped heating. Thinking the timer could be easily repaired, I called in an expert who said for 377 E he'd fix it; I consulted our trusty local expert Pti (who said buy and mid-range, don't even think to repair these newfangled machines), got instructions from Colette (buy and simple), treated my downstairs (tough) female neighbor to lunch so that she would come and tour BHV and Darty with me - resolution - a new oven for 405 E - that is, 28 E more than an uncertain repair.

Now, I'm used to planned obsolesence in the US, but here, the home of WWII frugality, ancient, still-working kitchen appliances and German engineering?

So, lesson to me - when the next thing crashes - it's off to the store.

[pierre45]

An update on the issue of the longevity of food appliances in France.

I won't bore you with the details, but my oven, purchased 17 years ago, made weird clock-clicking sounds and stopped heating.  Thinking the timer could be easily repaired, I called in an expert who said for 377 E he'd fix it; I consulted our trusty local expert Pti (who said buy and mid-range, don't even think to repair these newfangled machines), got instructions from Colette (buy and simple), treated my downstairs (tough) female neighbor to lunch so that she would come and tour BHV and Darty with me - resolution - a new oven for 405 E - that is, 28 E more than an uncertain repair.

Now, I'm used to planned obsolesence in the US, but here, the home of WWII frugality, ancient, still-working kitchen appliances and German engineering? 

So, lesson to me - when the next thing crashes - it's off to the store.

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Sep 7 2007, 03:23 PM

I have also given up on a 15 year old german dishwasher.So i wash everything by hand .If you really want a dishwasher go to Darty and speak to a salesperson .

They will take away the old one and install the new.

Good luck

JOhn,please note that way back in sept I advised you not to waste time in repair and to purchase a new one from Darty.

This is a proof of the advice i give.So people listen up .

[John Talbott]

Yes my dear friend, but the irony is that my German dishwasher is going strong after I gave it the triple-dose cleaning job recommended upthread but the oven just crumped suddenly without warning.

In any case, I'm waiting for the frigo, micro and toaster-oven to die.

[Ptipois]

I think appliances' lifespan nowadays is comparable to cats' lifespan: between 12 and 18 years depending on your luck, intensity of use, and brand. The fancier, the more fragile (electronics get messed up easily).

The more recent and new the technology, the more likely it is to break down at an early stage. When I got my first induction stovetop back in 1992, well induction was certainly not new (it's actually a late-19th century technology) but it was the first generation of non-professional induction stovetops. The electronics got screwed up so often that I had to change the motherboard twice. The thing lasted for 13 years though.

Now they tell me my second induction stovetop is going to last longer without any need to change the motherboard, because in the meantime they have perfected that kind of technology.

My oven is dying, sometimes I can't even close the door. I practically have to kick it hard to close it. This one has lived in my kitchen for 16 years which is a ripe old age for a late-20th century oven. But the light has been dead for 10 years and the timer has gone ad patres for 8 years. Supposed to be a good brand though.

[pierre45]

I think appliances' lifespan nowadays is comparable to cats' lifespan: between 12 and 18 years depending on your luck, intensity of use, and brand. The fancier, the more fragile (electronics get messed up easily).

The more recent and new the technology, the more likely it is to break down at an early stage. When I got my first induction stovetop back in 1992, well induction was certainly not new (it's actually a late-19th century technology) but it was the first generation of non-professional induction stovetops. The electronics got screwed up so often that I had to change the motherboard twice. The thing lasted for 13 years though.

Now they tell me my second induction stovetop is going to last longer without any need to change the motherboard, because in the meantime they have perfected that kind of technology.

My oven is dying, sometimes I can't even close the door. I practically have to kick it hard to close it. This one has lived in my kitchen for 16 years which is a ripe old age for a late-20th century oven. But the light has been dead for 10 years and the timer has gone ad patres for 8 years. Supposed to be a good brand though.

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MY 28 year old german oven works quite well ,except for the clock and timer.

I fixed the temp swich myself using a piece of a metal foil.Afterwards

I treated myself to dinner at P gagnaire ,which cost me 320 euros, the price of a new oven

[markk]

At first I thought this topic was about a german guy who is employed as a dishwasher working in France.  LOLOLOL

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I did TOO !!