What is a restaurateur looking for?

[BeerGut]

Educate me. I'm in need of a good local restaurant and I want to do my part. How do I help make my town attractive to more than pizza shops and diners?

What do restaurateurs look for in a town? Why do some towns (Montclair, Ridgewood) have clumps of nice restaurants and others have few (or none)? I attend council meetings, I can do my part. What makes a town attractive?

I would like to invite a talented, creative chef to open a restaurant (not just a caterer) that has more than a deep-fryer and butter sauces to this neighborhood (Leonia/Teaneck/New Milford). These are highway towns of single-family homes and disposable incomes. The malls and bad-food chains around here are PACKED.

With so many people waiting in line at places like the Cheesecake Factory, Morton's, M&S, etc, I don't understand why there aren't more good independent restaurants around here. We don't need another Appleby's! So help me if another TGIMcFunster's (thanks Mr Bourdain) opens around here I'm moving.

[PicnicChef]

Here, from a caterer, is one opinion on the area. I'm on Kinderkamack, and I feel like I am trapped from any major highways or roads other than the 15 minutes it takes me to get to 4 or 17. In this area, New Milford, Leonia included, the scary part of opening a restaurant is access. Ridgewood has charm, so it is okay that it is a bit landlocked. This area, there is no downtown, no cute shops, no other reason someone would go out of their way, except to eat. And, it is just too risky to believe that people will travel -- all the time -- for a good meal. You know what I mean?

[rooftop1000]

Parking Parking Parking

location and local income

town council support

and oh yeah Parking

tracey

[BeerGut]

I do. (BTW, you are the spot that I had in mind when I made that remark. It's been a while but I had a delicious lobster roll at PICNIC - ever think of taking over the Emerson Hotel?)

Maybe I should be posting on an Urban Planning chatboard. But I pose this question after visiting a small, upper-middle-class commuter town north of Boston. One 2-lane road, and 3 restaurants which reminded me of (toned down versions of) Harvest, the old America of Tenafly, and Bacari Grill. Each dinner cost us between $60 and $80 for 2; these restaurants were the regular dining spots for the locals, not special locations. Towns nearby had a restaurant or 2 like this. Then I come home to Teaneck and I either pay more for mediocre food from one of the many chain (or blue-hair) places around here or drive someplace else. Why?

From a business point of view what should a town understand in order to attract, retain, and support a quality restaurant? I mean the residents are already nearby, they have money, but they travelling on congested roads, to busy places, where they wait for parking, wait for a table, eat mediocre food and pay high prices for the privilege. I don't get it.

[BeerGut]

Location, location, location, parking, safety, income level, you're right.

What would be a supportive town council?

[ELA]

I'm not quite sure if "you" can do anything to make your town more attractive to restaurantuers -- unless you can implement some of the efforts we've seen in other (different) communities, vis a vis Jersey City, Newark, etc. And, I am not quite sure that would allow you to reach your goal per se. Now, give them very strong incentives; tax benefits, favorable municipal laws, excellent target clientele, and so on, and you're on your way, LOL.

I think different towns attract different businesses for different reasons -- you mention Montclair and Ridgewood, which are great towns. Compare them to some of the others you might think of. Does Ridgewood compare to Leonia, New Milford or Teaneck? In some, very few respects, there would be some commonality. However, the "enclaves" of people one would want to attract -- in those towns are very different. That's where the dynamic is.

Anywhere you go, there are going to be certain constants that are in demand -- parking, location, space, configuration, and so on. The rest -- geographics, target market, and the dynamic aspects are all over the board. Sometimes it's hit or miss.

There may not be a "great" restaurant in a particular area, but how far do you have to travel? Unline many people here, I think there are some "great" restaurants in the Northeast section of Bergen County. Of course much of this is relative.

Good, thought provoking thread.

Eric

[kpzachary]

Besides all the obvious stuff like location, and parking that has already been mentioned, how about a community that is in need of this particular type of restaurant. If you were the only Chinese place in town, I am sure that you would make a killing. If a town has five Bistros for a population of about 30 to 40 thousand, I'm not to sure that they would be extremly excited about another one.

Personally as a chef, I would want great local proveyors, like I experienced in the Hudson Valley/Berkshires, or Napa Valley/Sanoma County regions.

[Lima Bean]

The foundation of a good town starts with it's own community. The residents of the town must have the savy/foodie sense and income to support their own town. Everyone here is talking about people traveling.. I live in Ridgewood and see half of my neighbors around town, we support the community first. This is the basis of things to come. Most people in Ridgewood have been here for years, good roots, not transiants or communiters going into the city.

We look for resturants that bring passion, effort, cleanliness and eclectic foods to the area. Having just 1 chinese resturant is a poor idea, it doesn't beg competition which drives good food. There are 3 chinese joints in town and each one does something a little different than the other...GOOD..we like this. It also keeps the service up to a certain standard, which, if I'm going to spend the money to eat out and possibly travel as well...then we want a good experience.

A foodie town cannot be made up of one main street or strip mall. (I'll just feel like I'm at Atlantic City without the gambling). Notice both Ridgewood, Montclair, ERutherford (maybe) and Princeton have several cross streets, it's like a community, New England-ish.

A safe neighborhood.....

Easy access someone mentioned which is key also, enough said about location.

LIMABEAN

[BeerGut]

I remember when Westwood and Ridgewood stores were empty. That changed. I wonder what the role of the citizens and town council were and if it could be replicated elsewhere.

Restaurants are not possible without customers and town support. So there is a role for residents and customers to bring good places to their towns. To that end I started this posting.

Question:

What can a customer do, beyond visit often, bring others, tip well, and spread the good word? (But that is a good start.)

The answer:

Encourage diversity and competition

Attend town meetings and keep the interests of the restaurateur in mind (I am still trying to clarify what these are)

Create a culture of foodies among the population (tell everyone about eGullet)

Ensure a safe neighborhood

Ensure convenient (and free?)parking

Clear sightlines of the storefront

Beware stupid sign laws,

Minimize Permit costs and red-tape

Preach the tax benefits to the start-up

Help (as a township) with marketing and advertising

I'm going to offer to buy a Councilman a beer and see what I can do.

[Curlz]

I'd love to see the folks from David Drake chime in here...they have successfully opened an upscale restaurant in Rahway, after all! Talk about a town with NO reputation for food prior to their arrival! I'm sure that they must have had some incentive to build/open there.

Speaking as someone who lives in a heavily food-challenged town (pizza, Italian, pizza, mediocre takeout Chinese, Italian, pizza, mediocre takeout Chinese, pizza, and, oh, wait...is that another pizza place opening?), there are a combo of reasons that I travel to towns like Ridgewood and Montclair on a regular basis:

1) centralized meeting point for friends who live in different areas (even if it is a 20-30 min ride)

2) plenty of options in those towns so we can change our minds if we get there and realize we're in the mood for something else and/or want to get drinks or dessert somewhere separate from where we eat

3) parking (even if we have to circle a few times, we do find it--free)

4) places to walk around before/after dinner where we feel safe

5) overall 'charm' of the town--where I live, you can walk around before/after a meal, and look at nail salons, old (and in need of closing) mom 'n pop stores, pharmacies, etc. Not so appealing.

The one thing I can think of that a town can do to at least start to make a retail area look more appealing is to fix sidewalks, curbs, and building facades where possible. There is an overall look that every town has, esp to someone driving through for the first time. I can honestly say that there has been some of this going on where I live, and although the facades still cover all of those damn pizza places, the general impression is much better than it was 3-5 years ago. My $.02.

Curlz

[ELA]

I'd love to see the folks from David Drake chime in here...they have successfully opened an upscale restaurant in Rahway, after all! Talk about a town with NO reputation for food prior to their arrival! I'm sure that they must have had some incentive to build/open there.

Speaking as someone who lives in a heavily food-challenged town (pizza, Italian, pizza, mediocre takeout Chinese, Italian, pizza, mediocre takeout Chinese, pizza, and, oh, wait...is that another pizza place opening?), there are a combo of reasons that I travel to towns like Ridgewood and Montclair on a regular basis:

1) centralized meeting point for friends who live in different areas (even if it is a 20-30 min ride)

2) plenty of options in those towns so we can change our minds if we get there and realize we're in the mood for something else and/or want to get drinks or dessert somewhere separate from where we eat

3) parking (even if we have to circle a few times, we do find it--free)

4) places to walk around before/after dinner where we feel safe

5) overall 'charm' of the town--where I live, you can walk around before/after a meal, and look at nail salons, old (and in need of closing) mom 'n pop stores, pharmacies, etc. Not so appealing.

The one thing I can think of that a town can do to at least start to make a retail area look more appealing is to fix sidewalks, curbs, and building facades where possible. There is an overall look that every town has, esp to someone driving through for the first time. I can honestly say that there has been some of this going on where I live, and although the facades still cover all of those damn pizza places, the general impression is much better than it was 3-5 years ago. My $.02.

Curlz

Excellent post, and thought provoking as well. There's the "dynamic" at play. They opened a restaurant in a town that didn't have "it" so to speak. So they opened a restaurant in an town where there target market wasn't, and created a place that their target market people would "go" or drive to.

That's why the discussion is very global in nature. Open an upscale place that caters to high-end, affluent, etc. people and lifestlye, and open it in Englewood, Tenafly, etc. -- or open the same type of place in another town but make sure it's the kind of place that people will come to.

Now, I think the question becomes -- if you lived in a particular town, Ridgewood for example, what kind of place would you leave town and drive to. What about Teaneck, which is a very different kind of town and has a different kind of downtown.

Excellent thread, and thanks.

Eric

[Lima Bean]

We live in Ridgewood and eat out 4-5 times a week...at this point, what makes me leave and go to another town is diversity of food and the quality, celebrating a special occassion but honestly, it's rare that we go out and about and say, we'll be back on a regular basis...with the exception of..

- porterhouse in Montvale/Park Ridge border, irish pub good food 15min ride, nothing else around

- Houstons at Riverside in Hackensack..shopping before or after...good resturants at a mall is not uncommon, Atlanta and Arizona have been doing this for years...

- any good hamburger/hot dog joint recommended by egullet

- weehawken, ho bo ken, for the views of the city..pf changs

- Newark..good brazilian/portg. ...we do walk around Ferry street..purchased a great linen/cotten table cloth....

My point is that....I don't think we REALLY...care about the ambiance, community...we go for the food...but we are the extreme...

I think the target market that Teaneck is looking for is the "family" outing, maybe some trendy foodies..girls night out/boys night out...again, Ridgewood and Montclair cater to all of these. Teaneck cannot launch a community overnight, where will you start, will you move away from Kosher/Middle Eastern foods...and upset your local community..? What type of people will work in your resturants/stores?

love this discussion

limabean

[Tamar]

I mostly lurk on this board, but um, hi. Anyway. I live in Montclair and have noticed that Raymond's is packed most nights (and weekend brunch and often weekday lunch during the summer), with a long wait for tables, while other nearby restaurants are readily available and open.

How is this relevant to the discussion? It goes back to need. Montclair has some excellent upscale restaurants, also some good ethnic eateries. But families with children who want comfort food and reasonable prices, twentysomethings out for a casual meal, friends getting together for a straightforward but good lunch, they're a set of demographics, a set of needs, that I believe Raymond's meets far better than any other restaurant in the area.

It's about filling a niche, but one that's broad enough to make enough people show up on a regular basis. Figuring out what that is in a given area is of course the tricky part.

[BeerGut]

Definitely related and a nice addition. So what happened to make Raymond's a reality? And is it reproducible?

What is the role of the customer and the township in that success?

The beer and whisky writer Michael Jackson said that when he was thinking of moving the first step was to visit pubs with his wife in search of the one they wanted as their "local." Am I a crazy romantic to like this idea?

Imagine you have a great restaurant in your town that you can walk to. Better yet, imagine you have 3. Not just places you can go, but places you want to go. Places you want to invite friends to visit with you. If I lived in Ridgewood I would work my way through the restaurants in town too. In fact that is exactly to my point - I think more people should have that kind of option.

Off the top of my head there are 25 restaurants on Cedar Lane between Teaneck Rd and River Rd of various themes: Italian, Indian, Caribbean, Dominican, BBQ, diner, ice-cream, kabobs, pizza, IHOP, subs, etc. Most cater to families or grab-a-bite type places. But when I want a nice dinner out with my wife, we go out of town...last night we ate at RELISH in Sparkill, NY (which was very good)

Shout out to Bistro EN. A nice place and a shot in the arm for the town. When the NJ section of the NYTimes reviewed it it was swamped. But otherwise there isn't anything like a fine dining restaurant in town (Glenpointe is barely in town and I'll leave it's status as fine dining aside).

WHY and How can this be changed?

There are Fortune 500 business executives, doctors, administrators, lawyers, CPAs and others with businesses on the Lane. They are already in the area, they don't need a reason to come here. But where do these business types go for business lunches and drinks? They don't go to the Subway.

Limabean I hear what you're saying. But I think if a place like Serenade (if I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming big) opened in town people would find it and the town would benefit in many ways from that addition.

Now I'm interested in the thoughts of the businessman/chef.

What can the town do? What focus can I, as a foodie citizen, bring to the township's attention that would increase chances that a restaurant will be attracted to town; and what can be done to increase the chances it will thrive?

I'm enjoying (and I appreciate) the conversation.

[PicnicChef]

I keep a ponderin' opening a restaurant in the valley, since I am kinda known there as a chef. I'm just worried. Worried about parking, worried about empty tables, worried about the books, worried that we'd not get press because we're not in the right location. The menu, the concept, has been in my head for years, the reality scares the be-jesus out of me....

No parking, no reason to come, but to eat my food. Scary....

[tommy]

i read a lot about parking being so important, yet Ridgewood's (a town that is often used as a benchmark) parking situation is deplorable, yet, 10's and 10's of mediocre restaurants flourish there. perhaps therein lies the answer: serve mediocre food and they'll flock.

[PicnicChef]

just have a downtown, and things could look up....

[Curlz]

Montclair's parking situation isn't much better than Ridgewood's, and yet somehow, we always manage to find spots. It certainly hasn't deterred me or my (not-so-into-food) friends from travelling 20-25 mins to hit A Mano every month or so, and that's usually on a weekend. Then again, (downtown) Morristown has parking garages, municipal lots, meters and free street parking a block off of the main streets, but has manage to remain far less popular as a 'destination' as the aforementioned towns.

Now that I think about it, there are more similarities between Morristown and Montclair (i.e. the majority of places roll up the sidewalks by 10pm in both towns, and both have diverse residential populations) than there are with a downtown like Ridgewood or Summit or Madison. It makes me wonder (to ELA's point) what (if anything) the towns do differently in terms of trying to attract chefs/restaurateurs.

[zhelder]

The problem, especially in Northern NJ, is we have too many people in too small an area, and the infrastructures of our small towns cannot support our populations. Ridgewood is bad, but Montclair is much worse to me. Bloomfield Ave. is a nightmare, and although I hit restaurants in Montclair every once in a while, I usually avoid the area simply because the traffic and parking problems are so bad. Ditto with Ridgewood, although I think you have more of a fighting chance to get a parking spot there. Any town in this area with a decent downtown - Ridgewood, Montclair, Westwood, Ramsey, Englewood, etc. has major traffic problems. Too many people driving too big cars, and not enough space to hold everyone.

I also find that many of the restaurants in these towns feel they have to jack up prices to be viewed as "fancy" and/or to pay the insanely high rents charged in towns like Ridgewood or Montclair. Sure, I go to fancy restaurants every once in a while, but I far prefer more casual restaurants where I get more bang for my buck.

There are lots of good restaurants in blue collar towns off the beaten path. No, they may not be in a "restaurant row", but they usually provide good food for about 1/3 - 1/2 of what you'd pay in Ridgewood or Montclair. Plus it's usually much easier to get parking, and you won't have to fuss with reservations or waiting an hour for tables.

I'm certainly not a restaurant expert or a professional chef like many others on this board, but it seems to me that if you have an interesting and different concept for a restaurant, and you charge fair prices for the cuisine, you will do well. For example, I went to Minado in Little Ferry for lunch yesterday. (I know, I know... A BUFFET?!? Blasphemous!) The restaurant is next to a small little motel, in one of the tougher towns in Bergen County, and not really close to a lot of other restaurants. Every time I go into the place, no matter what time I go, it is INSANELY busy. (And a very large crowd of Asian-Americans is always at the Little Ferry location too, which tells me the food must be pretty good and authentic.) Why? Because there's nothing else like it in the area, the food is great, and the price, while quite a bit more than the price you'd pay for the typical Chinese buffet, is quite reasonable considering the variety and the quality of the food.

There are some very good restaurants in Ridgewood and Montclair, but too many charge too much money for what you get, and too many are too alike to lots of other restaurants. Plus, the parking and traffic situations in both towns are maddening. I'm not sure how that problem can be solved.

Edited July 16, 2007 by zhelder (log)

[PicnicChef]

Yes, but look at Fat Cat in Little Ferry. The chef has told me again and again that it is very hard to get people there....

[BeerGut]

Maybe there is another way to examine this situation.

Please list the 5 most over-looked restaurants in Northern NJ.

[PicnicChef]

1) Fat Cat

2) Harvest

3) Ho-Ho-Kus Inn

4) The Brick House

5) I'll have to think about it some more.

[JoRic]

I mostly lurk on this board, but um, hi. Anyway. I live in Montclair and have noticed that Raymond's is packed most nights (and weekend brunch and often weekday lunch during the summer), with a long wait for tables, while other nearby restaurants are readily available and open.

[

Hello to all. I don't post often, so most don't know me, but I am one of the owners of Raymond's. Thanks so much Tamar for the kind words (waits aren't really long except maybe on weekends, though). I've been reading this thread with interest and have been thinking all the while how lucky Raymond and I are to have the location that we do. I wouldn't trade it for the world. We are in the middle of a very active downtown with plenty of parking, and a great movie theater across the street.

Definitely related and a nice addition. So what happened to make Raymond's a reality? And is it reproducible?

What happened to make Raymond's a reality? Well, Ray started the business 18 years ago when this was a risky area to be in. People told him he was crazy to take a business to Church Street at that time. There really weren't any restaurants down here at that time, but Raymond's became a destination because Ray (I wasn't working with him then) has always had a good understanding of his niche and been a stickler for quality. Of course, there is much, much more to the story, but I do have to get back upstairs to the dining room right now. I would be more than happy to answer any questions, though.

Is it reproducible? We certainly hope so- we would love another location some day!

[Lima Bean]

1) Fat Cat

2) Harvest

3) Ho-Ho-Kus Inn

4) The Brick House

5) I'll have to think about it some more.

←

harvest yes, good catch

Ho Ho Kus Inn, going down hill...oops and they just sold it, so this confirms

brick house was ok, now renovating into a wedding factory, tearing down the old house that once stood there...don't expect much when it opens

[PicnicChef]

1) Fat Cat

2) Harvest

3) Ho-Ho-Kus Inn

4) The Brick House

5) I'll have to think about it some more.

←

harvest yes, good catch

Ho Ho Kus Inn, going down hill...oops and they just sold it, so this confirms

brick house was ok, now renovating into a wedding factory, tearing down the old house that once stood there...don't expect much when it opens

←

Really?

Brick house was swell years ago when it was the Wyckoff Inn. I believe it is still owned by the owners of Aldos, and I did see that Ho-Ho-Kus inn was just sold. Chef's table? Haven't been in a while but am curious to see how it is going.