Flavored Ganaches (Fruit, herb, spice, etc)

[Kerry Beal]

Of course I just realized that BritoJ probably wants to use the wine made by the winery for which he's creating chocolates.

I wondered about the maltodextrin thing - because the bag was labeled 'gluten free' - but I've always thought of the maltodextrin being used with fats - will it work equally well with liquids not containing lipids?

[Sebastian]

i'd imagine it's dissolve straightaway with a little heat and a little agitation, depending on the soluabliity of what's plated on it

[Kerry Beal]

i'd imagine it's dissolve straightaway with a little heat and a little agitation, depending on the soluabliity of what's plated on it

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Actually what I am interested in knowing is whether you can use maltodextrin to make a powder with a non fat liquid?

[paulraphael]

Especially since this is a project for a winemaker, I think you want to avoid any technique that drastically changes the character of the wine (not counting, um, mixing it with chocolate ...)

This precludes cooking it, and definitely reducing it. When you cook a wine, all of its subtlety is destroyed. Most of the aromatic compounds are released or oxidized, and you end up with with a vague sense of the original wine's body, fruit flavors, and acidity. Red wine gets altered more; if it's reduced without the right amino acids present in sufficient quantity, the pigments and tanins can drop out completely (though I doubt this would be an issue in a ganache).

I think you should look closely at butter ganaches, because they don't require any reduction of the wine ... the cream portion is the butter, which is under 20% water. The wine only needs to be heated to the melting point of chocolate. Not much higher than body temperature. Which is the temp that all good wines end up, eventually

If you have trouble forming a stable emulsion, you could experiment with small quantities of added emuslifiers, like lecithin or gelatin.

[Sebastian]

Yes, flavor houses do it all the time 8-)

i'd imagine it's dissolve straightaway with a little heat and a little agitation, depending on the soluabliity of what's plated on it

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Actually what I am interested in knowing is whether you can use maltodextrin to make a powder with a non fat liquid?

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[sote23]

I'm in the same boat as you. A winery wants me to make them a chocolate with their wine and it's proving very difficult. To make matters worse, it's a dessert wine, so not as robust as a regular wine. I'm sure it can be done, I've had a red wine truffle by a company in San Francisco and it was very good.

Luis

[Lior]

Maybe the butter ganache is the way to go. If anyone has a recipe to share for all of us, we can each try with a different wine and then discuss the results. I understand the issue of losing the wine's attributes when reducing so I want to try the butter method. Thanks!

[paulraphael]

Maybe the butter ganache is the way to go. If anyone has a recipe to share for all of us, we can each try with a different wine and then discuss the results. I understand the issue of losing the wine's attributes when reducing so I want to try the butter method. Thanks!

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What's the consistency you're looking for?

I linked to a pretty foolproof and delicious recipe in my first post in the thread. As written it's a sauce, but with a bit of tweaking (lots more butter) it could easily become a firm ganache.

Just keep in mind that cream is typically 36% milkfat and butter is typically 80% milkfat (with most of the rest being water in both cases). To mimic the consistency of a cream ganache you just need to get the butter/wine combination to mimic the quantity of cream in that recipe.

It's late ... let me know if that was incomprehensible.

[Lior]

I understand the issue but not the math!! I have to sit and work it out. Again back to Schneich's excel chart?? I pipe it into little chocolate cups and then dip. Thanks!

[paulraphael]

I understand the issue but not the math!! I have to sit and work it out. Again back to Schneich's excel chart?? I pipe it into little chocolate cups and then dip. Thanks!

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If you tell me what proportion of chocolate and cream you'd use, I can figure out a good starting point for you with butter.

[Lior]

Well for a basic ganache I would use 1 1/2 dark choc to cream, sometimes less for a more liquidy and sometimes more for a more dense. You are very helpful! Thank you! Now this would be without wine.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Lior (log)

[paulraphael]

Well for a basic ganache I would use 1 1/2 dark choc to cream, sometimes less for a more liquidy and sometimes more for a more dense. You are very helpful! Thank you! Now this would be without wine.

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Ok, acording to my secret formula, a good starting point would be

150g chocolate

44g butter

56g wine

This should give you close to the consistency of 150g chocolate/100g cream.

If the consistency is wrong it can be remelted and adjusted. Since the emulsion is fragile, it's best to let it come to room temperature on its own (if it's been chilled) and then warm it very gently in a double boiler. once melted, more of any of the ingredients can be stirred in.

[Lior]

Thank you! I will try it out and keep you updated. Do you have a chocolate shop?

Once again, thanks so much!!

[paulraphael]

ha! if i had a chocolate shop i wouldn't be procrastinating on the internet.

just another thought ... you could check out the current thread on water ganache. i'm sure anything those guys are doing with water could be done with wine.

i have no experience with this, but i assume you'd get a different texture and somewhat more direct flavors. it's really the same thing as a chocolate butter sauce, but without the butter enrichment.

Edited November 17, 2008 by paulraphael (log)

[sote23]

Well for a basic ganache I would use 1 1/2 dark choc to cream, sometimes less for a more liquidy and sometimes more for a more dense. You are very helpful! Thank you! Now this would be without wine.

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Ok, acording to my secret formula, a good starting point would be

150g chocolate

44g butter

56g wine

This should give you close to the consistency of 150g chocolate/100g cream.

If the consistency is wrong it can be remelted and adjusted. Since the emulsion is fragile, it's best to let it come to room temperature on its own (if it's been chilled) and then warm it very gently in a double boiler. once melted, more of any of the ingredients can be stirred in.

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oh oh, did someone say a secret formula. lol

What percentage chocolate?

Luis

[BritoJ]

Has anybody tried to use http://www.viniferaforlife.com/ wine powder, I have read about it but have never tried to make ganache with it!

[Kerry Beal]

Has anybody tried to use http://www.viniferaforlife.com/ wine powder, I have read about it but have never tried to make ganache with it!

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Hey, that's the stuff I was talking about earlier in the thread.

[merlicky]

Has anyone made Grand Marnier truffles? Wouldn’t you treat the wine in the same fashion as the Grand Marnier?

I don’t have my recipe on me right now, but my Grand Marnier truffles consist of chocolate, cream, butter, orange juice concentrate, and Grand Marnier. I change the ratio of cream to chocolate to make up the difference of adding the extra liquid of the oj concentrate and the Grand Marnier.

I also do a Bailey’s Irish Cream truffle where I cut back the amount of cream to make up for the additional liquid of the Bailey’s.

I believe that Grewling has a ratio in his book that is a good base for fat to liquid in truffles (at least I think Grewling is where I got it from).

[sote23]

Has anyone made Grand Marnier truffles?  Wouldn’t you treat the wine in the same fashion as the Grand Marnier?

I don’t have my recipe on me right now, but my Grand Marnier truffles consist of chocolate, cream, butter, orange juice concentrate, and Grand Marnier.  I change the ratio of cream to chocolate to make up the difference of adding the extra liquid of the oj concentrate and the Grand Marnier.

I also do a Bailey’s Irish Cream truffle where I cut back the amount of cream to make up for the additional liquid of the Bailey’s.

I believe that Grewling has a ratio in his book that is a good base for fat to liquid in truffles (at least I think Grewling is where I got it from).

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Wine is a totally different than using a liquor. It's much more difficult.

Luis

[merlicky]

Wine is a totally different than using a liquor. It's much more difficult.

Out of curiosity, what makes it more difficult to work with? If it is just that there is less alcohol content, I’ve used other liquid flavorings than liquors and have not had problems. I just rework my chocolate amount to maintain my ratios.

[tammylc]

Wine is a totally different than using a liquor. It's much more difficult.

Out of curiosity, what makes it more difficult to work with? If it is just that there is less alcohol content, I’ve used other liquid flavorings than liquors and have not had problems. I just rework my chocolate amount to maintain my ratios.

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IME, the intensity of flavor in wine is much less than a liqueur like Grand Marnier. So it's difficult to get enough wine flavor into the ganache just by adding wine in the same way you'd add a liqueur.

[sote23]

exactly as tammy says. It's difficult for the wine flavor to come through. It's not strong enough to stand up to the chocolate.

[Lior]

Here is my wine truffle. Kind played around with the recipe till I got it right!!

[carol lang]

That looks good Lior.

I like the top decoration.

Did you use a ganache cutter to get that shape?

[Lior]

Thanks!! And yes- the one that gets wider towards the top- 2.5 cm. You can cut a bunch one after the other and then they all fall out nicely from the wider top part.