Collateral problems of paper and plastic grocery/shopping bags

[Dave the Cook]

In addition to focusing on larcenous fringe benefits of grocery bags, maybe it's worth expanding a bit to discuss other aspects of this most basic container. A few things come to mind:

• Several learned institutions (the University of Kentucky, the University of Florida, Penn State) identify the paper grocery bag as a significant vector in home cockroach infestation.
• Plastic bags possess what I would call apparent abundance. They're lightweight, they come by the millions on a roll that's easily replaced; compare this with the drudgery of hauling a bale of heavy, dusty (need I add, cockroach-infested) paper bags, and maybe you'll see what I'm describing. This has led to astonishing profligacy with respect to their dispensation. This doesn't just come in the form of new rules for how bags get filled (poultry, leaky and presumably salmonella-laden, is now sequestered in its own filmy quarantine; gallon jugs of milk, detergent containers and eight-pound bags of dog food, all easily manipulated on their own, get bagged), it results in me somehow leaving the store with six items packed in nine bags.
• The craft of packing has all but disappeared. I lament this not just as a former bag boy and someone who appreciates craft in an absolute way, but as a consumer. There's a reason to pack things so that weight is well-distributed, so like items go with like items, and so that bags can stand up on their own: it makes the rest of the grocery-shopping experience (getting the bags into the vehicle; arriving home without the contents being redistibuted across an expanse of cargo area; getting them into the kitchen and onto the counter without spillage; and being able to put things away in an orderly manner) not just easier, but nearly pleasurable, in the way that any well-executed plan can be. Grocery stores have let down their end, and I feel betrayed.

What are your grocery-bag issues? Paper or plastic, and why? String bags (how do you handle a week's worth of supplies)? Do you pack you own with pride (I'm secretly thrilled at the absence of a bagger when it's my turn to check out)? Are you running off to set roach traps before posting?

[Fat Guy]

My apartment building's guidelines for tenants actually prohibit paper grocery bags, based on the infestation issue. We do sometimes use them for transport, but always take them to the outside trash right away.

The other main drawback to paper bags (that they rip is a drawback, but not a unique one because plastic bags rip too) is that they're difficult to carry. You can pretty easily grab two or more plastic bags with one hand, up to your ability to bear the weight. Paper bags, the most you can really do is two bags with your entire body, assuming you're just making quick trips from a car to a kitchen without the need to open doors, etc. Needless to say, when it comest to New York City apartment living, that doesn't work out very well.

The best bagging arrangement from a usability perspective is plastic over paper. This gives the structure of a paper bag, and the handles of a plastic bag. Plus, the redundancy makes the chance of tearing statistically insignificant. This only works in supermarkets that use good plastic bags, though. Here in the city, Fairway on 74th and Broadway has the good plastic bags and the default packing method is plastic over paper. But the Fairway in Harlem uses thinner plastic bags and defaults to the million-bags approach -- probably because the Harlem Fairway is more of a car destination.

It's also worth touching on the paper v. plastic environmental issue. Just about everybody I know who's an environmentalist type is militant about choosing paper over plastic. But there seems to be good evidence that plastic is the better environmental choice. It has been nearly 20 years, I think, since ILEA put out its report on this, and the summary still seems to be the best piece on the subject:

You can see a more detailed analysis here.

Needless to say, the worst possible environmental choice is to use both paper and plastic, as I do.

[Arey]

Here in Atlantic Co. NJ both the Acme and ShopRite stores have containers near the entrance for recycling plastic bags. I use the paper bags for paper recycling.

I've also got into the habit of telling the checkout clerks that I don't need a bag. At the WaWa they'll automatically put a 99¢ bag of potato chips in a plastic bag even though it's the only item being bought. At the CVS next door a bottle of aspirin rates its own plastic bag, at the local market down the street they use both paper and plastic together, and if you pick up a DVD at Blockbuster another plastic bag is added to your collection.

The non-recyclable plastic bags I use for trash or yard cleanup.

[Fat Guy]

Our Honda Odyssey has plastic bag clips in the cargo area. These would be very useful if we lived in the suburbs.

One of the more unusual bag-related experiences for me is shopping at Costco, where they don't have bags. It's always interesting to see how much you can accomplish with no bags at all.

[JAZ]

Plastic bag handles cut into one's hands when being carried.

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OXO makes the greatest bag handles for plastic bags. You can't tell from the photo and they're kind of hard to describe, but these are flexible rubber tubes with a slit along the top side. You can slide the handles of multiple plastic bags into them, thereby cushioning your hands and keeping the bags together. (You can also use them for the paper "shopping" bags that have the twisted handles that dig into your hands). These handles are lifesavers for anyone who has to tote groceries; I can't believe they aren't for sale at every urban grocery store in the country.

[Fat Guy]

OXO makes the greatest bag handles for plastic bags. . . . These handles are lifesavers for anyone who has to tote groceries; I can't believe they aren't for sale at every urban grocery store in the country.

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The Oxo bag handles are such a great invention. I had never seen one until JAZ introduced me to them, and now I'm astounded at how difficult they are to find. They really should just be industry standard.

[SheenaGreena]

Tj's uses too many bags? Holy crap everytime I go there they stuff everything EVERYTHING into one bag. Its like a jigsaw puzzle, trying to get all of my stuff out when I get home.

Also, I'm a huge fan of Stop N Shop's new shopping buddy. This thing rings stuff up for you while you are shopping and after you scan your items you can throw them into bags. They even sell reusable shopping bags now, but if it were me I would just reuse paper bags from home or maybe even reuse a few plastic ones. I love the shopping buddy and I'm surprised that shaws/starmarket hasn't picked up on it yet

oh and what are paper bugs? I have a ton of moths flying around my apartment...do they like to eat paper?

and how do they bag in other countries? I know that in korea you have to pay for your shopping bags and super market chains. I think the bags are a penny or a nickel.

[Marlene]

I have never heard of the paper bag issue with cockroaches and I always ask for paper bags at Whole Foods, which I re use when I go there again and also for toting many other things around.

The oxo bag clips are nice and WS supplies a similar clip when shopping at their stores. I keep them and reuse them also.

My old Subaru had the bag handles which was nice for holding plastic bags in place so things didn't roll around, but the X3 doesn't. And I always watch the baggers at checkout and redistribute myself before leaving the store if they are bagging improperly.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Marlene (log)

[maggiethecat]

I had never, until Dave told me about the cockroach/paper bag phenom a couple of years ago, given it a thought. As a veteran of horrid cockroach-infested college digs it gave me furiously to think, but in thirty years of paper bags I've never seen roach one.

Whole Foods paper shopping bags are the top of the line for comfort and practicality -- I can put out my paper recyclables in them -- but I hit Whole Paycheck maybe four times a year. My daily groceries are toted home in the plastic variety, and because I'm a sububanite the "handles" make dragging them from the car to the kitchen easier than the handle-free earnest brown paper bag. I hate them, but do all I can to reuse them for disgusting stuff: kitty litter, doggie poop when Willa was still with us. Actually, I use them for lunch bags too.

I'm temporarily living in what must be the most PC city in North America -- Ottawa-- and I've noticed the checkers always ask: "Do you need a bag?" It's amazing how much I can stuff in my tote. I've also noticed how many shoppers do come with string bags and cloth totes at the ready for their groceries. I think of this as a city thing: people who stop at a grocery store on the way home in a city are more likely to have blocks to walk and lighter loads then SUV driving sububan folks who shop fewer times a week.

I agree that Trader Joe's baggers are the greatest in the universe. How hard would it be for other chains to infiltrate the TJ Bagging Course and teach their folks how it's done?

[LB Howes]

I'm temporarily living in what must be the most PC city in North America -- Ottawa-- and I've noticed the checkers always ask: "Do you need a bag?" It's amazing how much I can stuff in my tote. I've also noticed how many shoppers do come with string bags and cloth totes at the ready for their groceries.  I think of this as a city thing: people who stop at a grocery store on the way home in a city are more likely to have blocks to walk and lighter loads then SUV driving sububan folks who shop fewer times a week.

I've been to Vancouver Island, staying in small towns as well as Victoria and noticed that stores pack groceries more efficiently using as few bags as possible. And some stores charge for extra plastic bags. I thought this shopping bag thriftiness was because Vancouver is an Island and as everything must be brought on or off island so businesses want count every penny.

But maggiethecat in Ottawa got me to pondering if this thrifty and conscientious bag use is done all over Canada?

[Rehovot]

I live in a land without baggers, so I have no one to blame for squashed bread and strawberries but myself.

Grocery stores here charge you for paper and strong plastic bags; most people bring their own. And people hoard plastic bags of all kinds. For groceries, I use a plastic bag from Ikea (though not the ubiquitous blue kind) which is indestructible. I hauled home the makings for two batches of limoncello in it, today.

Death before the grocery-tote-on-wheels!

[gfron1]

I really appreciate this dialogue since my store right now is debating what to do about bags. We use plastic only, but we're so sick of seeing Wal-Mart bags hanging off every cactus and cholla plant. Fortunately (or unfortunately for sales) we don't see our bright orange bags out in the fields yet - probably because our clientele is a bit more careful.

All that said, we know its not a reality to have all of our customers buy cloth bags.

We've also heard of the new corn plastics coming around that biodegrade (in more humid climates, not ours) in 3 months - we're already serving our coffee out of the corn cups. This will be a bonus once they strengthen them a bit more.

Our ultimate goals (as consumers) is to give the bags a good life. Not a single bag goes unreused in our house - every single one will end up with dog doo at some point...some bags attract roaches - some doo

[Pam R]

I can't think of a local grocery store that even offers paper bags. Not one.

One of the larger chains charges you for every plastic bag you use (you have to guess how many you'll need and tell the cashier before paying for your groceries - then he/she hands them to you from his/her secret stash.) Of course, you pack your own bags here. My father won't buy the bags but usually has waxed cardboard boxes in his car and will put his groceries into his cart without bagging, then will transfer the groceries to the boxes at the car.

In our store we use plastic bags 99% of the time. But we do have smaller paper bags for small items. I find that my customers aren't shy about telling me how they want their things packed. Double bags, only two chickens in a bag, not too heavy!!, etc. Only 2 of my customers bring their own reusable bags.

I recently bought a few bright-orange cloth(?) Home Depot bags. They're great - huge and they have a clasp at the top that helps keep things from rolling out as I drive home.

[Fat Guy]

I wonder what a life-cycle energy analysis would say about the various reusable totes versus disposable plastic bags. Presumably, there's a lot more energy and such involved in creating a reusable tote. I wonder how many times you have to use it before it becomes better for the planet than disposable bags. 10? 100? 500? And I wonder how many times the average reusable bag actually gets used before it's retired and discarded.

[The Old Foodie]

I wonder what a life-cycle energy analysis would say about the various reusable totes versus disposable plastic bags. Presumably, there's a lot more energy and such involved in creating a reusable tote. I wonder how many times you have to use it before it becomes better for the planet than disposable bags. 10? 100? 500? And I wonder how many times the average reusable bag actually gets used before it's retired and discarded.

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Plastic bags are being phased out at a lot of supermarkets here in Brisbane. We are all being encouraged to buy re-useable totes. But - I recently read that cotton is not at all environmentally friendly - takes up a huge percentage of the world's pesticide use, and a lot of water.

I cant remember where I read about it, but there is some info <a href="http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GMCFATW.php">HERE<a/>

[Rebecca263]

I wonder what a life-cycle energy analysis would say about the various reusable totes versus disposable plastic bags. Presumably, there's a lot more energy and such involved in creating a reusable tote. I wonder how many times you have to use it before it becomes better for the planet than disposable bags. 10? 100? 500? And I wonder how many times the average reusable bag actually gets used before it's retired and discarded.

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In my case, well, the age of my oldest tote was, I hate to admit this, because I AM the original owner, 29 years- until a few weeks ago, when it was stolen from my car. I got it at a fund raiser in school! Most of my other totes were from 1987, 1989, 0r the early 90's. I have only ruined one tote over the years, it got overbleached and the fibers weakened. YRMV!

Edited May 20, 2007 by Rebecca263 (log)

[mizducky]

Death before the grocery-tote-on-wheels! 

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Aw, the wheeled tote's not so bad ... especially when it's done up in faux zebra-skin. Actually, the thing can be a pain in the arse to load and unload, not to mention navigate down the street or up stairs ...

Ditto what everyone else has said about the current sorry state of grocery bagging. I regret to report that I have heard myself snap things like: "Would you please not throw my food around like that?" I get a lot of my basics at Food 4 Less not only because of the prices, but because they are totally bag-it-yourself.

The baggers and cashiers at the local 99 Ranch do take some nice care with their bagging. Like putting each glass jar in its own paper bag and then grouping those together in a plastic bag, so they're a little cushioned against each other. They do burn through a lot of bags that way, and in general, but at least there's some purpose to it. They also do a neat trick with lacing the handles of the plastic bags together so that stuff won't fall out.

[Marlene]

There was an article in the Toronto Star recently about the province gearing up to do something about plastic bags. here

[maggiethecat]

My father won't buy the bags but usually has waxed cardboard boxes in his car and will put his groceries into his cart without bagging, then will transfer the groceries to the boxes at the car.

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You've reminded me of how we transport our haul from Caputos, where we do much of our greengrocer and staples shopping. They offer the empty produce boxes as well as the standard bags, and we go for the boxes every time. They fit nicely in the trunk, hold a ton, don't break or buckle, and are easy to unload from the car.

[Fat Guy]

You want to talk about infestation, the worst experiences I've had have been with reused produce boxes, liquor cartons, etc. Not only do pests hitch rides on those things, but also the containers have often absorbed food odors and residues, so they're pest magnets for as long as you keep them in the home. I have a similar problem with reusable totes -- one of the reasons we don't use them (aside from the fact that I guess I just don't love the earth enough) for food is that we don't want them in the house the rest of the week, giving off food odors. Maybe if we kept them in the car it would be different, but we're in New York City so we don't usually shop with the car.