Italian Cheeses

[albiston]

Scamorza and mozzarella are most authentically made from water buffalo milk, although many are now made with cow's milk (i.e fior di latte).

John, it's a bit more complicated than that actually. Mozzarella-like cheese has been produced for centuries in different Southern Italian areas. In particular the three main areas were (and in a sense are) the Terra di Lavoro north-west of Caserta, once a wetland and ideal for rising water buffalo, the area around Agerola, where the cheese was traditionally made with milk from cow's of the local race, and a few areas in northern Puglia. The cheese coming from Terra di Lavoro was always made with buffalo milk, although it is not certain it would have been pure buffalo, and is the one which went under the name mozzarella originally. The other two were previously sold mainly as fior di latte, which is the common name for cow's milk mozzarella in Campania, but also as mozzarella. The problem of mozzarella naming and related frauds goes back quite longer than one would imagine.

Scamorza is basically like mozzarella, although is generally firmer and saltier. It is aged for a short while unlike mozzarella which is best fresh. These are principally from Campania, particularly the buffalo rich areas around Salerno and Caserta. I believe that in Campania it is only the scamorza that is smoked, though I am not positive about that.

You can get scamorze from cow's milked, smoked or not, in Abruzzo and Molise. Actually if you ask there the locals will tell you that scamorza was invented there and exported to Campania. Could be true, but could also be an example of the proverbial Italian pride for local history and related "embellishment" of the truth .

Caciocavallo is thought by some to have originated as a mare's milk cheese, but now is generally a cow's milk cheese. It is likely related to the Kaskaval cheeses of the easteren Mediterranean. It is the Parmagianno of Sicily and southern Italy and often used as a grating cheese. Ragusano is a specific form of this cheese from the area around the city of Ragusa.

I have heard the story about the mare's milk before too, it's one of the two popular theories that tries to explain the name of the cheese. Cacio and cavallo, taken apart, mean cheese and horse, which easily explains the origin of the theory. Unfortunately there is no historic document mentioning the use of mare's milk in Italy in any form whatsoever. What seems more probable is that the term comes from the expression "cacio a cavallo", where "a cavallo" is a general expression indicating something hanging as on a horseback and referring here to the common way to store these cheeses tied together pair-wise and hanging by the string on a stick. Caciocavallo as a cheese named is used throughout southern Italy from Abruzzo to Sicily. Apart the fantastic Ragusano you mention there's another great caciocavallo, Caciocavallo Podolico, made from the Podolica race cows, a very hardy and ancient race , which feeds on preferentially on herbs and berries, giving an incredibly aromatic milk and cheese.

Provolone is another cow's milk cheese that, although the books say is from Lombardy, I  more commonly associate with Campania.This cheese was apparently familiar to the Ancient Romans. It is basically long-aged mozzarella, although the production process is somewhat different.

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Provolone definitely comes from Campania. I did not know about the Romans, but you can find mentions of "provature" (the old name of provolone) in Neapolitan commercial records of the XI century. Provola was probably the most used cheese in Nepolitan cooking during the XVII and XVIII centuries. Unfortunately things have changed quite a bit from those times. Today there's only one Provolone still made in Campania, Provolone del Monaco, on the Amalfi coast. Today, as you mention, the main production area is now in the Po plain in Lombardy, where it was introduced in the XIX century by southern immigrants.

Essentially Provolone and Caciocavallo are very similar. If you look at the production steps, they're both pasta filata (spun curd) cheeses, where the curd has been treated in such a way to remove more liquid than what one would do for mozzarella or scamorza, something necessary for the longer shelf-life of these chesses. Different caciocavalli or porvoloni will have differences in taste mainly caused by the quality of the milk used, the type of rennet used (kid gives a more pungent taste than lamb), amount of salt added and ageing time. To go back to Kevin's original question, I would substitute caciocavallo with a provolone of the same ageing as required by the recipe.

[Kevin72]

So, wait, is scamorza a little softer, more like mozarella/F.D.L and less like cacciocavallo? Is it supposed to be so smoky? I bought "scamorza" at the store today, it had a hard, brownish rind but was soft inside.

[albiston]

So, wait, is scamorza a little softer, more like mozarella/F.D.L and less like cacciocavallo?  Is it supposed to be so smoky?  I bought "scamorza" at the store today, it had a hard, brownish rind but was soft inside.

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Pretty much so, or maybe the best way to say it is that scamorza is like very young provola/caciocavallo, apart the smaller shape clearly. Young caciocavallo/provola -aged between about one week to two month, depending on size- and scamorza can be used for the same sort of recipes, since they behave similarly in cooking, though scamorza has a mellower taste.

Kevin, is the inside actually soft or more supple and elastic? Scamorza should be the latter. If it is soft like mozzarella, it's softer than it should be. The brownish rind probably comes from the smoking, which also dries the rind out an extra bit making it harder than that of "normal" scamorza.

[docsconz]

Alberto, this is why you get the big bucks! Thanks for the additional info.

I was surprised to find the connection betweeen provolone and Lombardia. I just always knew it as a Campanian cheese.

[Kevin72]

Kevin, is the inside actually soft or more supple and elastic? Scamorza should be the latter. If it is soft like mozzarella, it's softer than it should be.  The brownish rind probably comes from the smoking, which also dries the rind out an extra bit making it harder than that of "normal" scamorza.

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No, it was a little more firm than the artisinal mozzarella. But I should note that I left it out on accident when I got home from the store, so that may have contributed to some of its texture . . .

[albiston]

Alberto, this is why you get the big bucks! Thanks for the additional info.

Oh yes John, those special manager wage increases !

I was surprised to find the connection betweeen provolone and Lombardia. I just always knew it as a Campanian cheese.

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I wonder if the knowledge of provolone coming from Campania is more widespread outside Italy. Back home there's quite a lot of people who ignore thhis: since most of it is now produced under the protected denomination of origin Provolone Valpadana hailing from Lombardia and Veneto, many just take the Northern Italian origin for granted.

[Pan]

Alberto, this is why you get the big bucks! Thanks for the additional info.

Oh yes John, those special manager wage increases !

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Don't try to fool us, Alberto! We know you managers make twice as much as we hosts do!

[but remember, everyone: 2x0=0]

[Boris_A]

Still, some of the best cheese around is from Italy. Finding a great cheese tray in a restaurant in Italy is a joy.....So many surprises and varieties to discover.

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Two things I like to add:

- IMHO, some of the best Italian artisanal cheese (Robiola, cheese from the Piedmontese Alps, Valtellino, Alpi Bergamasci, Trentino, Piave, etc) are produced in really small quantities only and can be found almost only locally in markets, on farms or the better restaurants that care about a cheese selection.

- and I'm afraid that the EU regulations are going to do evevn more harm in Italy than in France. Italian bureaucracy can be as predictable as roulette when it comes to the application of regulations and laws. During the last two decades, their former apporoach of "situational" implementation is sometimes replaced by an almost German strictness. OTOH, I have seen production rooms of 100 sqft where 75% of the even knowledgable consumers would call for hygienic regulations (though not at all really necessary andf the goat cheese produced there was of really fantastic quality). But in all fairness, I can understand why some regulators think they are acting in very best interest of the consumer. Both, regulators and average consumers tend to be ignorants and "safety" and "security" are killer arguments, nowadays more than ever.

[Bux]

Still, some of the best cheese around is from Italy. Finding a great cheese tray in a restaurant in Italy is a joy.....So many surprises and varieties to discover.

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Two things I like to add:

- IMHO, some of the best Italian artisanal cheese (Robiola, cheese from the Piedmontese Alps, Valtellino, Alpi Bergamasci, Trentino, Piave, etc) are produced in really small quantities only and can be found almost only locally in markets, on farms or the better restaurants that care about a cheese selection.

- and I'm afraid that the EU regulations are going to do evevn more harm in Italy than in France. Italian bureaucracy can be as predictable as roulette when it comes to the application of regulations and laws. During the last two decades, their former apporoach of "situational" implementation is sometimes replaced by an almost German strictness. OTOH, I have seen production rooms of 100 sqft where 75% of the even knowledgable consumers would call for hygienic regulations (though not at all really necessary andf the goat cheese produced there was of really fantastic quality). But in all fairness, I can understand why some regulators think they are acting in very best interest of the consumer. Both, regulators and average consumers tend to be ignorants and "safety" and "security" are killer arguments, nowadays more than ever.

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I love cheese, I will be in Italy this fall and I can't find a thread on Italian cheeses. I've moved some posts about cheese in Italy from a discussion in the France forum about the loss of many family-produced cheeses. France is my ideal country for cheese, but I've been learning to appreciate Spanish cheeses during my recent travels in that country and I've been doing a bit of exploration in Italian cheese courtesy of one fine NY shop specializing in Italian imports and especially in Italian cheeses. I don't care at all to hear a discussion about which country makes the best cheese. I am simply interested in learning more about the cheeses I can get in Italy and in particular, the sorts of cheese that are likely to be lost to industrialization and bureaucracy.

[Boris_A]

During September, ther will be a fantastic oppotunity to sample Italian cheese from all over the country, and it's not limited to Italian ones. It's an every-two-year event organized by SlowFood.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, I consider the Italian cheese production being very fragmentated and it's not easy to spot truly original products outside of the local markets or shops. The so called "Sagra" (dell polenta, dell fungho, stc.) - a food "fair" held in almost every village once or twice a year - sometimes includes markets with stands of small producers.

Another very useful guide is the "Il Golosario" by Paolo Massobrio, a buyers guide for outstanding food shops and local specialities. It's available in Italian book shops and is a great starting point not only for cheese shoppers.

[albiston]

I am simply interested in learning more about the cheeses I can get in Italy and in particular, the sorts of cheese that are likely to be lost to industrialization and bureaucracy.

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As many things in Italy, cheese remains very much a regional product, as Boris mentioned, so knowing were you will be might be helpful to give you more detailed tips. With over 400 to choose from it would at least reduce the sample slightly. Still, because of Slow Food and the newly found interest in local products, it is getting easier to find good cheeses in selected shops like Cracco in Milan or la Tradizione in Rome, although at a price. Shops like these have another advantage they often carry the artisan versions of those popular cheeses that are mainly known in their "industrial" version like Taleggio, Gorgonzola or Parmigiano. A real raw milk Taleggio for example, ripened in the mountain caves of the homonymous valley is simply another cheese compared to what one can find abroad and in most Italian supermarkets. Other cheeses that have suffered from loss of quality recently are those that are fashionable among italian foodies like formaggio di fossa, a kind of cheese aged in special "wells", orBagoss, a relative of Grana Padano from the Brescia province.

Bureaucracy has had, in my experience, a limited effect at times even a positive one. The real risk some Italian cheeses face is not having to comply to hygienic regulations, but rather that of finding cheese makers interested in keeping the tradition alive and dedicated to promoting these products. Many mountain cheeses are at risk of extinction simply because no one wants to live the life required by the job anymore. In some cases due to the health concerns very small cheese producers, one could almost say one-cow or one-goat farms, have organized themselves in coops or associations with very promising results. In some cases this was born from the ideas of forward looking individuals who risked their own money in doing so, but in other situations the availability of EU funds has played a major role. I don't like the EU hygiene regulations too much either, but they can be used in an intelligent way if one wants to.

All things considered, the best places to get to know Italian cheeses are probably still top-end restaurants. As with other ingredients, many of these establishments get their hands on the best products either before they reach the market - some are produced in such small quantities that they never do anyway- or are supplied by specialists, like Italy's top affineur Alberto Marcomini, who cater almost exclusively to restaurants. The incredible gorgonzola bianco, also called stracchintund, I had at Dal Pescatore earlier this year went straight in my "best cheeses ever" list.

[marlena spieler]

.......some of the best cheese around is from Italy. Finding a great cheese tray in a restaurant in Italy is a joy. People don't realize that the cheese varities in Italy are close or equal to what it is in France. So many surprises and varieties to discover.

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Piemonte is especially rich with cheeses and the tradition of a cheeseboard after the meal. I remember once in the countryside around Alba sampling my way through a big tray. what i was impressed with was that so many of the cheeses were local. i especially liked the stories behind the cheeses such as when one of the cheeses was pointed out: Ah this cheese is made by the local youth detention centre (ie the nun and the bad boys).

Marlena

[Bux]

Piemonte is especially rich with cheeses and the tradition of a cheeseboard after the meal.  . . . .

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I've noticed that a large number of the cheeses I've liked at DiPalo's, my great NY source of cheese and everything Italian, come from Piemonte. Most recently, I had a nice wedge from a Valtellino cheese. At least that's what I thought Marie called it. I had asked about some goat cheese unlike the soft fresh goat cheeses I usually buy. It was similar in a way to some aged Spanish goat cheeses, although I'm not sure this was all goat's milk. There wasn't much information on the simple label. It was quite good. I believe it's from the Piemonte.

[Boris_A]

I had asked about some goat cheese unlike the soft fresh goat cheeses I usually buy. ... It was quite good. I believe it's from the Piemonte.

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Quoting fom a conversation I had with master cheesemonger/grocer Steve Jenkins here on eG:

S.J.: And as for Piemonte and robiola cheeses, I suggest that robiola cheeses are the greatest of Italian secrets. they are innumerable, so different from each other, and so many of them are drop-dead remarkable.

Some of the best pure goat Robiola is from Roccaverano, SE of Alba, and you can buy it from completely fresh to fully mature. Unfortunately, most of the production is sold directly up there or to the top restaurants. And beware: the Robiola di Roccaverano "AOC" (DOP) - defined in the interest of larger producers - allows for a considerable amount of cow milk, which has not much to do with the traditional, best Robiola.

For Valtellino cheese (notably from Bitto valley and and the adjacent Taleggio valley in the Alpi Bergamasci), "Giapponi" in Morbegno would be a good source. The century old shop is worth visit by itself.

Edited August 22, 2005 by Boris_A (log)

[OTT78]

Reading the topic, the first cheese that comes to my mind is Casu Marzu, the famous Sardinian cheese with maggots. Casu Marzu simply means “rotten cheese” in Sardinian dialect. The maggots produce an enzyme that causes the cheese to ferment. The result is a very creamy and extremely pungent cheese. Some people may be bothered by the worms, but if you don’t mind them, I strongly suggest giving it a try. There is really nothing like it. It’s illegal to serve Casu Marzu, but many people make it at home for private consume. My father is from Sardinia and made me try it for the first time when I was a child; I actually thought it was a lot of fun eating cheese with worms! I wouldn’t be too concerned about possible health risks: my father, who was used to make Casu Marzu, told me that he never heard about anybody getting sick from eating this cheese. Let’s remember that people in Sardinia have one of the highest longevity in the world. They must be doing something right…

[Bux]

I believe there's also a Spanish cheese that's traditionally covered in maggots as well. I believe these cheeses are illegal to import into the US and the Spanish one may be illegal in Spain as well, but traditions die hard.

[Bux]

Piemonte is especially rich with cheeses and the tradition of a cheeseboard after the meal.  . . . .

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I've noticed that a large number of the cheeses I've liked at DiPalo's, my great NY source of cheese and everything Italian, come from Piemonte. Most recently, I had a nice wedge from a Valtellino cheese. At least that's what I thought Marie called it. I had asked about some goat cheese unlike the soft fresh goat cheeses I usually buy. It was similar in a way to some aged Spanish goat cheeses, although I'm not sure this was all goat's milk. There wasn't much information on the simple label. It was quite good. I believe it's from the Piemonte.

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I am slowly learning just how much variation there can be within cheeses of the same name. More recently we enjoyed a soft ripening Valtellina. It had a hard crust, so hard in fact that although I generally enjoy the rind of most soft ripening cheeses, I had to cut this one off. Inside parts were so runny as to have the consistency of heavy cream or a very ripe Vacheron Mont d'Or.

[cbrezi]

ok, since the weather in Rome is getting hot, i've been trying to stay out of the kitchen and have more sliced meats and cheeses. I've recently tried Bra Tenero and Teleggio which have quickly become a couple of my favorites. All of my friends that have visited have fallen madly in love with pecorino romano.

Which cheeses were your favorite while you visited or lived in Italy?

[gariotin]

Tallegio and pecorino toscano - from the young and soft to the aged and hard, they are all great!

[rooftop1000]

Pecorino Romano....1 more vote

[Kevin72]

Caccio or any of the younger pecorinos, particularly this time of year.

Parmigiano of course. Of course. Every time I just nibble a shard of it it's like the first time I'm tasting it.

Burratta. Oh, why hasn't this caught on more in the US yet?

[Dana]

We love soft pecorino romano. It's creamy and tangy, and our absolute favorite. Rather hard to find, though. I have to go to Houston to get it.

[ghostrider]

Another vote for Taleggio.

But don't overlook Bel Paese. I'd thought it was sort of like the Brie of Italy until we tasted some from a cheese shop in Venice. Sweet, delicious & quite unlike the version we get in the US; it became one of our lunchtime favorites. Don't know if the difference has to do with US pasteurization requirements or if it just doesn't travel well or what.

[hathor]

Parmigiana Reggiano: If I was on a desert island, this is the one thing that I would just have to have!

Pecorinos in all their manifestations

Sheep milk ricotta

Gorganzola!! Dolce and Piquante.

Was I supposed to pick one (!) favorite??

[markabauman]

Pecorino toscano from Pienza

Real Fontina-just about impossible to find in the US

One-hour old mozzarella di buffala