Sweet Wines

[rich]

I have never found Far Niente Dolce to be cloying, merely expensive.

Ron - do you mind if I add a word or two? - very, very expensive.

I was able to get 8 bottles of the '89 Dolce from a restaurant near Saratoga that was going out of business. I bought the entire cellar, which was worth about $8,000 retail for $1,200. Otherwise, I probably would never have had any Dolce or the 1990 Kistler Dutton Ranch Chardonnay.

Alas, since I bought these in August of 1995, there's little left from my once in a lifetime "cache."

[LaNiña]

Oh yeah - I forgot the sweet Primitivos I've been drinking. Yum.

[nightscotsman]

Pineau des charente - not exactly a dessert wine, but it is sweet. I've loved this stuff ever since I had it paired with foie gras at Le Toque in Sonoma. Can anyone recommend a good producer, and more importantly, a good supplier? There is only one place I've found in Seattle that sells only one label. Sam's used to carry a few labels, but I can't find it there anymore.

[LaNiña]

Pineau des charente - not exactly a dessert wine, but it is sweet. I've loved this stuff ever since I had it paired with foie gras at Le Toque in Sonoma. Can anyone recommend a good producer, and more importantly, a good supplier? There is only one place I've found in Seattle that sells only one label. Sam's used to carry a few labels, but I can't find it there anymore.

Man oh man, I love Pineau. I still have some from France, but I'd love to know what people buy here for when I run out.

[Steve Klc]

Not all Pineau des Charentes are as sweet or appropriate for dessert Nightscotsman--so be careful. I've worked with a few and the variable sweetness and high alcohol percentage can get in the way with a good dessert pairing. Cognac Gautier makes a nice, not too expensive aged Pineau des Charentes called Panatela which I just happened to build a dessert around for a dinner last year at Epcot. It's available in the States.

You might get some leads in this cognac article from a few years ago:

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/Afici...its/fo1098.html

Apparently Pineaus are positioned as apertifs in some markets and by some manufacturers.

[britcook]

I have a couple of really good bottles of Mombazillac that I shlepped back from France last year.  I love that stuff.  The good Mombazillacs are not cloying at all.

Neither are good Monbazillacs which are probably similar.

For stuff available in the UK (which was the question for all of those contributors posting wines which are rare in the US and unobtainable "offshore") try wines from the appellation of Ste Croix du Mont which is on the opposite bank of the Garonne to Sauternes, all the character of a Sauternes and less than a third of the price. For something a little different try Pacherenc du Vic-Bilh, not common but still obtainable in England.

[Steve Klc]

It seems likely a few eGullet-reading Brits might travel to Napa one day, might have a passion for sweet wine, and might want to avail themselves of a few of the very best sweet offerings there which even Americans have a hard time finding in their local markets. I wouldn't begrudge them this as passion for the grape spills out.

[Beachfan]

Beachfan, the Beaume de Venise of which you speak is killer and it is Domaine Durban.

It also may be the prettiest setting of any winery I tasted at.

[Robert Nesta Marley]

two things:

admittedly, i may as well just say that i am not a fan of any of far niente's offerings. i think their "reserve" wines are but a shade different (not to say better) than their other productions, so that has always made me a bit suspicious of their doings. so, to be honest, i think there are FAR many more interesting domestic late harvest bottlings out there, made in FAR LESS QUANTITY --which makes it even more frustrating to me to see it is so mind-bogglingly expensive--you can get it anywhere. (granted, i have not had the '89, i admit.) i apologize for just stating my preferences without much reference or personal context/prejudice. when i'm not working ,sometimes i just feel like stating my likes & dislikes plainly, however unprofessional it may be--and dolce "feels" cloying to me, regardless of how/why i meant it that way. hope you all understand.

secondly--say again, '90 dutton ranch?????????? how much do you have of thaaaaaat?????

[Robert Nesta Marley]

i'd pass on far niente's dolce.  quite cloying unless you've had it down for 10 years or so...ditto on monbazillac, nina.  it's a blend of semillon, sauvignon blanc, and muscadelle--look for chateau tirecul la graviere.

i also pass on bony doon's framboise & muscat.  very very cloying in my opinion.  and not worth the retail $$.

how about andrew rich's late-harvest gewertztraminer??? umm...

I have a couple of really good bottles of Mombazillac that I shlepped back from France last year. I love that stuff. The good Mombazillacs are not cloying at all.

nina, didn't mean "ditto on monbazillac" as if i were likening it to the cloyingness in dolce (that i find).

i meant, ditto to what you said about liking wine from the region, just to be clear. i drink it all the time. craft/bar pours the aforementioned bottling.

[britcook]

It seems likely a few eGullet-reading Brits might travel to Napa one day, might have a passion for sweet wine, and might want to avail themselves of a few of the very best sweet offerings there which even Americans have a hard time finding in their local markets.  I wouldn't begrudge them this as passion for the grape spills out.

How very true, for I am one of those eGullet-reading Brits who will be visiting Napa very soon. Now I know that these threads will often stray from the original topic but Gavin did say

Does anyone have any suggestions to share, especially European wines as I may find it difficult to source US wines in the UK

[Vivian Mallinson]

Didn't notice if anyone's mentioned this one already, but as luck would have it, last night I tasted Klein Constantia's Vin de Constance, from South Africa. I am not normally so keen on sweet muscat but this was delicious. Incredible smell of lime marmalade and nectarines or something. Lay and Wheeler sell it for about £20 for 50cl and I believe Oddbins are going to stock it too.

[mogsob]

Much like their dry relatives, New World sweet wines leave me rather unimpressed, including Dolce which is simply overpriced for what it is.

The best value these days in sweet wines is southern France (as discussed above) and Austria. Here are a few Austrian producers to look out for, including the great Kracher who makes (IMHO) the best sweet wine in the world:

Angerhof

Tobias Friedrich

Fritsch

Gesellmann

Goldenits

Alois Kracher

Kraft

Lackner-Tinnacher

Sepp Moser

Josef Pockl

Ernst Triebaumer

Franz Wimmer

Winkler-Hermaden

Also, of course, are Sauternes. Here are the best of that, significantly more expensive, lot:

Château Climens

Château d'Yquem

Château Fargues

Château Gilette

Château Raymond-Lafon

Château Rieussec

Château Suduiraut -- perhaps the best value.

[John Whiting]

Gavin - Living in the UK, have you tried the Wine Society? Since they are not bound to be "profitable" in the usual way, their buyers are free to pursue their predilections without reference to volume sales. Accordingly, they stock more German wines, especially the traditional, than fashion would dictate. They have an extended list of the products of the great estates which are not included in their regular catalog, available (to members) on request.

[rich]

secondly--say again, '90 dutton ranch?????????? how much do you have of thaaaaaat?????

Nesita - There were 9 bottles in the cache when I bought it, but alas only one is left. I plan on serving it with a curried apple soup this fall.

The last one I had (about a year ago) tasted of pears and green apples and was still bright gold and crisp.

I don't mind if you find the Dolce cloying - "vive la differance." Differences of opinion make people interesting - it also allows the great sport of Thoroughbred racing to exist. (And horses don't go on strike either.)

[Gavin Convery]

Gavin - Living in the UK, have you tried the Wine Society?

John,

I am indeed a member of the wine society, although don't use them that much - but I will take your advice and contact them...

[Ron Johnson]

admittedly,  i  may as well just say that i am not a fan of any of far niente's offerings.  i think their "reserve" wines are but a shade different (not to say better) than their other productions, so that has always made me a bit suspicious of their doings.  so, to be honest, i think there are FAR many more interesting domestic late harvest bottlings out there, made in FAR LESS QUANTITY --which makes it even more frustrating to me to see it is so mind-bogglingly expensive--you can get it anywhere. 

Far Niente makes a fair cabernet, a fair dessert wine, and a chardonnay that taste much like a campfire.

But, no matter what one's personal preferences are regarding their wine, I think it is safe to say that they are terribly overpriced. I think I saw a Far Niente Cab the other day for $135.00 per bottle. That is totally crazy. Especially since it was a '98. Perhaps FN is operating under the delusion that they are a 1st Growth located in Graves? Even then their prices are wacked.

[Adam Balic]

Australian fortified Muscat & Muscadelle ("Tokay")

Vin Santo - most are terrible, but a few good un's exist.

Malaga - rare old style, not new style.

Antinori

Umbria Muffato della Sala

Good Italian Bot. Sem.

Various Passitos. Sicillian ones made from Orange Muscat grapes - very nice.

Moscato di Asti - Yes I know, but it goes very well with poultry liver mousses.

Sauternes - aged bottles can be bought cheaply.

[Niall]

There are lots of good Oz sweet wines; the DeBortoli Noble one is fantastic, and there are loads of others; Brown Brothers do some nice ones too; although I don't know what would be available over there. As Mr Balic said, there are lots of good tokays and muscats from here too... some fortified, some not.

I really liked the St Jean de Minervois muscat from minervois in the Langeudoc aswell.. and there is a good Baron Phillippe de Rothschild sauternes we had in France that was really good value aswell.

[Adam Balic]

Niall since you are in OZ, try to get your hands on some "Hardy's Liquor Sav. Blanc", amazing stuff. Base material around 50 years old.

[Tonyfinch]

Is it against everyone's religion to mention the word PORT? None of the sweet wines mentioned above can come close to top class port.

"All wine would be port if it could". I think Bob Dylan said that.

[Adam Balic]

Tony, you sound dangerously like Plotnicki.

Anyway, as Port is a British, it must be shite.

And if Bob said that then he is a tosser. Port was wine not good enough to be Claret.

[Gavin Convery]

Anyway, as Port is a British, it must be shite. 

You obviously don't mean that as port is from Portugal, the fact that the British were heavily involved in shipping it back to blighty is no argument to consider it bad as they were also heavily involved in keeping the Claret/Bordeaux industry afloat in the past.

Anyway anybody who has ever tasted Gould Campbell crusted (and experienced the subsequent hangover) could not possibly argue against port.

[Gavin Convery]

the DeBortoli Noble one is fantastic, and there are loads of others; Brown Brothers do some nice ones too;

We get plenty of Oz sweet wines in the UK now the EU qota limit is lifted, in fact it was Lindemans Padthaway Griffiths Semillon which got me on to sweet wines in the first place. Rutherglen Show reserve muscat (sp?) is a nice drop too.

[Adam Balic]

Gav. - any Port in a storm eh?

Th Australian Botrytised wines can be excellent, if patchy. Look out for De Bortoli Noble One (Semillion) and some of the Botrytised Rieslings (D'arenberg, Lindermans) or Miranda Golden Botrytis (Semillion and Riesling), which is rather nice.