Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 6)

Guy MovingOn · February 28, 2010

I'm going to try chicken breasts cooked at 57.5C first. If I like them, then I will try chicken breasts at 55C. To give you an idea, I like my steak very rare

I bagged them with some sea salt, black pepper, garlic powder, thyme, lemon juice, butter, and olive oil. They measure approximately 35mm in thickness, however I will cook to pasteurisation as if they were 40mm, which is 3hr18min, just as a margin of safety, and in case the bath goes slightly below 57.5C. I'm also sure that they were above 4C when I put them in the bath, so they would take less time to come up to temperature anyway.

Will report later this afternoon when I've had them for lunch!

jk1002 · February 28, 2010

I had boneless skinless chicken few times, last night I brined for 2 hours in 10% it did not lost a single drop of juice in the bag. In fact the meat was sticking to the plastic - I had nothing in the bag except the chicken breast - no fat no spices. I topped them later with a rub and some kumquats and stuck them under the broiler based on a recipe from JG Vongerichten.

Thing is, the texture reminds me too much of Boars head lunch meat. I now sort of have the feeling that they meat glue chicken breast together, then SV it for hours.

I have tried few times to incorporate SVed chicken into normal recipes but always come back to the lunch meat like texture. I find if I pan sear it afterwards, the browned part gets too hard and stringy in contrast to the rest of the meat.

I think I will try 2 things next: gently brown the skinless breast in a pan before SVing as well as take one with bone and skin and finish it off under the broiler.

Question I have is, after browning the breast do I need to chill if I stick it into the water bath right away? In the Polyscience youtube video for tenderloin he is doing that but then he is using a true vacuum machine which lowers the boiling point which I do not have. I use ziploc.

Edited February 28, 2010 by jk1002 (log)

Guy MovingOn · February 28, 2010

I'm going to try chicken breasts cooked at 57.5C first. If I like them, then I will try chicken breasts at 55C. To give you an idea, I like my steak very rare
I bagged them with some sea salt, black pepper, garlic powder, thyme, lemon juice, butter, and olive oil. They measure approximately 35mm in thickness, however I will cook to pasteurisation as if they were 40mm, which is 3hr18min, just as a margin of safety, and in case the bath goes slightly below 57.5C. I'm also sure that they were above 4C when I put them in the bath, so they would take less time to come up to temperature anyway.
Will report later this afternoon when I've had them for lunch!

I just ate the chicken. In total the chicken was in the bath for around 3:40 as I was making some soup as well, so it was definitely past pasteurisation.

The chicken was delicious! I really loved the texture. It wasn't at all soggy or flimsy or sponge-like. Perfect structural integrity, nice soft texture, wonderfully moist. It wasn't even that pink at all.

The skin was very soft, but not unpleasantly so. My girlfriend is quite fussy when it comes to food, but she loved this chicken and said it is the best so far, having also tried chicken at 63.5C and 60C. She wasn't a fan of the soft skin though. I was thinking perhaps I could place it skin side down in an extremely hot pan, but I wouldn't want to cook the meat any further. Perhaps I will try with my blowtorch next time. I thickened the cooking juices with some cornflour (probably could have found a better thickening agent in my TexturePro kit, but I'm lame at molecular gastronomy/cooking), and drizzled some over It made a delicious sauce!

Having tried this temperature, I'm not sure if I would prefer it at a lower temperature. I will, however, try it at 55C for experiment's sake.

Furthermore, I have also been rather retarded with my brining, and been doing 1% instead of 10%! Haha, no wonder I wasn't noticing much difference!

I had wonderful results with these chicken breasts, and they are just standard supermarket chicken breasts. I am sure they would be even nicer if I bought some of the organic or free range chicken breasts

Again, terrible photography with my iPhone 3G, and horrible presentation skills, but in case you are interested:

Happy with this afternoon's results, I'm going to make a sous vide version of Chinese drunken chicken.

**nickrey** · February 28, 2010

I thickened the cooking juices with some cornflour (probably could have found a better thickening agent in my TexturePro kit, but I'm lame at molecular gastronomy/cooking), and drizzled some over It made a delicious sauce!

Try potato starch; lots of professionals use it in preference to cornflour.

Merridith · March 1, 2010

I need some help, fast please. I had the opportunity to buy a beef tongue from my farmer (pasture raised, all natural, happy cows, etc.). It is sitting in my fridge and I want to cook it in my Sous Vide Supreme. I have been searching and searching and searching but I can't find any suggestions for how to do this. Can anyone tell me what temperature and how long to cook this thing for? Thanks for your help!

**nickrey** · March 1, 2010

Check out this link and the discussion following it.

Basically the two methods discussed are the Thomas Keller 70 degrees celsius for 24 hours or NathanM's 56 degrees celsius for 48-72 hours. A number of people suggest brining to get a corned-beef flavour but you can do it without; depends on what you want to do with your tongue.

Guy MovingOn · March 2, 2010

I'm going to try marinading the gammon for 24 hours in some kind of apple cider, honey, mustard, clove mix (haven't really decided what), and then try 60C for <24 hours. Then go over the skin with a blowtorch. Not really sure what I will serve it with, but the other day I had pork neck in a modern japanese restaurant which was served with "apple confit", so I will try experimenting with that. To be honest, it wasn't that spectacular, in fact, the apple still tasted raw, it just had apple juice on it, or something.

Tonight I'm having the shanghai drunken chicken thighs. I went out for a friend's party last night, and wasn't able to get back at the time I planned, so the thighs had a lot longer at 57.5C than I had anticipated, but perhaps they will be even softer now

Will post photos later

Guy MovingOn · March 2, 2010

Tonight I'm having the shanghai drunken chicken thighs. I went out for a friend's party last night, and wasn't able to get back at the time I planned, so the thighs had a lot longer at 57.5C than I had anticipated, but perhaps they will be even softer now
Will post photos later

I boiled 500ml water with 50g salt, 50g sugar, and some chopped up ginger and spring onion. After a few minutes I added 500ml cold water to cool it down. When it was very cold I added the chicken thighs and brined for 3 hours.

Then I boiled some shaoxing rice wine with some more ginger ans spring onion, rinsed the chicken thighs, bagged the thihgs, added the wine, ginger, spring onion, sesame oil, salt and pepper. Cooked at 57.5C. I went out to a friend's party, and would have let them cook for just over 4 hours, but it ended up being 6 hours. However, the texture was SUBLIME!

I cooled them with ice water, then added some chicken stock I had made from the bones of the thigh to the bag, and poured in more rice wine. Marinaded for a whole day. Then sliced thinly.

Boiled some shanghai noodles with the juice from one bag of thighs, the left over chicken stock, and topped up with some boiling water. Then drained. Then served in a bowl with the juice from the other bag and some more hot water, it made a delicious soup!

Drunken chicken placed on top, and garnished

This is the waterbath with the lid off:

Edited March 2, 2010 by Guy MovingOn (log)

therippa · March 3, 2010

FYI: Serious Eats put up their Sous Vide primer today...

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/how-to-sous-vide-steak.html

jk1002 · March 4, 2010

http://www.sousvidecooking.org/polyscience-mx-immersion-circulator/

New Polyscience circulator. I heard there was a slightly cheaper version coming, this looks very good I am hoping this is it.

jk1002 · March 6, 2010

I just did burgers for the first time. I had 93% lean beef patties from wholefoods.

I had em in at 60.5c for an hour. They lost very little juice, but were not even close to what shake shack dishes out.

I had them them in ziplock vacuum bags, after tossing them into the tank both the patty in both bags did release some more air so i had to take em out and improve the vac. Does this happen normally, or is it an issue with the ziplock system that the vacuum is not strong enough?

Good but not very good burger which I guess has to do with the meat. Is a very convenient way to cook them though, especially in my open kitchen as I have only very little smell from the pan searing.

JK

Merridith · March 6, 2010

Did you put anything in the burgers to bind them? How thick were they? At 60C they must have been rather well done? Any seasoning? Thanks.

e_monster · March 6, 2010

I just did burgers for the first time. I had 93% lean beef patties from wholefoods.
I had em in at 60.5c for an hour. They lost very little juice, but were not even close to what shake shack dishes out.
I had them them in ziplock vacuum bags, after tossing them into the tank both the patty in both bags did release some more air so i had to take em out and improve the vac. Does this happen normally, or is it an issue with the ziplock system that the vacuum is not strong enough?
Good but not very good burger which I guess has to do with the meat. Is a very convenient way to cook them though, especially in my open kitchen as I have only very little smell from the pan searing.
JK

The quality of the meat is everything. Don't skimp on the quality. I recommend 133F (56C) cooked long enough to pasteurize. Then sear in a super-hot pan for not more than 45 seconds per side (or use a torch).

Any air that was in the bag will expand. So there were probably some air bubbles you didn't notice. There could be air trapped in the patties. If that is the issue, then you can get the air out. Wait a little while before pumping some more air out. The hotter the water is, the more the air will expane.

Did you put anything in the burgers to bind them? How thick were they? At 60C they must have been rather well done? Any seasoning? Thanks.

I personally prefer hamburgers that are just ground beef with no binder. With really good beef cooked to a nice medium rare, the burgers can be great. (Just be sure to cook long enough to pasteurize).

Sometimes I like to add a tablespoon or so of 5 to 8% brine and 1/4 cap liquid smoke.

Guy MovingOn · March 6, 2010

Would you expect an adverse effect to marinading pork gammon (smoked ham joint) in a marinade containing apple cider (6%abv) for 24 hours?

If I sear before bagging then the small amount of alcohol on the surface should have been cooked off?

I'm then thinking to cook at 60C for 24 hours.

Im thinking of a mixture containing apple juice, butter, honey, mustard, and cloves to go in the bag, based on the kind of original English roast gammon style.

Any suggestions??

Guy MovingOn · March 6, 2010

I also tried cooking Tetsuya's Confit of Ocean Trout sous vide last night.

Followed the traditional recipe, except I cooked the fish at 45C for 25 minutes.

I have to say, the texture was superb! I think I actually preferred the kind of soft, melt in your mouth feeling that this provided, rather than the still somewhat firm texture of salmon mi-cuit. I absolutely love everything raw, I can eat 2 tuna steaks raw for lunch... but I think the delicate texture of cooking at 45C for 25 mins was something I haven't experienced before. I can't imagine any other cooking method being able to consistently reproduce fish of that texture, where the texture and degree of doneness is the exact same throughout!

My presentation skills are appalling, my lame excuse is I'm a starving student!

Edited March 6, 2010 by Guy MovingOn (log)

Merridith · March 6, 2010

I just ate the chicken. In total the chicken was in the bath for around 3:40 as I was making some soup as well, so it was definitely past pasteurisation.
The chicken was delicious! I really loved the texture. It wasn't at all soggy or flimsy or sponge-like. Perfect structural integrity, nice soft texture, wonderfully moist. It wasn't even that pink at all.
The skin was very soft, but not unpleasantly so. My girlfriend is quite fussy when it comes to food, but she loved this chicken and said it is the best so far, having also tried chicken at 63.5C and 60C. She wasn't a fan of the soft skin though. I was thinking perhaps I could place it skin side down in an extremely hot pan, but I wouldn't want to cook the meat any further.

Why don't you try removing the skin and cooking it separately just before serving? Set it aside in the fridge before you put the chicken in the bath. Spread it out well on a piece of parchment on a sheet pan, dry it well, brush with oil (or bacon grease), season and then place another parchment on top. Put a brick or other weight on top (I use a bacon press) and then cook on high heat in your oven - should take about 15-20 minutes to get nice crispy roasted skin which will make a beautiful garnish for your naked chicken breast. I have also read about people cutting the skin in strips and frying like bacon but I have not tried this. You can cook the skin ahead and hold it warm until serving.

jk1002 · March 6, 2010

I had no binders, just plain sirloin ground. Alls they do is form it into patties for you. I seasoned heavily with seasalt and pepper and then stuffed it into the bag.

They didn't loose much juice while in the bag, yet weren't that juicy compared to shake shack. I had slowly caramelized onions (40 minutes in the pan) on top which was awesome. I had pan seared them for maybe a minute on each side.

The thing with lower temperature for me is, it often takes too much time to pasteurize. I was home from work and gym around 8, I ate at 9.30. No way I throw something in for 2 or 3 hours at that hour. Will try the 56c next week though and report back.

In general I would recommend sticking the bag with the patty into the water for 2 minutes and then seal to get the trapped air out. Not sure if the stronger vacuum of a foodsaver will get all the air out but I somehow doubt that.

e_monster · March 6, 2010

If the meat was not juicy and there wasn't liquid in the bag then the meat may not have been juicy to start out with. If the burgers you are comparing them to were cooked medium rare rather than medium that would also account for the difference.

The texture at 140F is distinctly different from the texture at 133F. But if the meat isn't juicy to begin with then the degree of doneness might not be the issue.

How done are the burgers that you are comparing them, too?

Guy MovingOn · March 6, 2010

I just ate the chicken. In total the chicken was in the bath for around 3:40 as I was making some soup as well, so it was definitely past pasteurisation.
The chicken was delicious! I really loved the texture. It wasn't at all soggy or flimsy or sponge-like. Perfect structural integrity, nice soft texture, wonderfully moist. It wasn't even that pink at all.
The skin was very soft, but not unpleasantly so. My girlfriend is quite fussy when it comes to food, but she loved this chicken and said it is the best so far, having also tried chicken at 63.5C and 60C. She wasn't a fan of the soft skin though. I was thinking perhaps I could place it skin side down in an extremely hot pan, but I wouldn't want to cook the meat any further.
Why don't you try removing the skin and cooking it separately just before serving? Set it aside in the fridge before you put the chicken in the bath. Spread it out well on a piece of parchment on a sheet pan, dry it well, brush with oil (or bacon grease), season and then place another parchment on top. Put a brick or other weight on top (I use a bacon press) and then cook on high heat in your oven - should take about 15-20 minutes to get nice crispy roasted skin which will make a beautiful garnish for your naked chicken breast. I have also read about people cutting the skin in strips and frying like bacon but I have not tried this. You can cook the skin ahead and hold it warm until serving.

Thank you for the suggestion I have tried this with duck breast, by placing the skin between 2 sheets of foil and two pans with some seasoning, with some crockery on top to weigh it down. Then for the final 5-10mins left it uncovered. Was wonderful.

When I've cooked salmon/trout, I just fried the skin in a frying pan with some olive oil or butter, and they come out wonderfully crisp and hold their shape really well.

I wanted to try the soft skin as it was an experiment of temperature to test for the shanghai drunken chicken.

Merridith · March 6, 2010

I need some help, fast please. I had the opportunity to buy a beef tongue from my farmer (pasture raised, all natural, happy cows, etc.). It is sitting in my fridge and I want to cook it in my Sous Vide Supreme. I have been searching and searching and searching but I can't find any suggestions for how to do this. Can anyone tell me what temperature and how long to cook this thing for? Thanks for your help!
Check out this link and the discussion following it.
Basically the two methods discussed are the Thomas Keller 70 degrees celsius for 24 hours or NathanM's 56 degrees celsius for 48-72 hours. A number of people suggest brining to get a corned-beef flavour but you can do it without; depends on what you want to do with your tongue.

Thanks so much for your help. Here is what I ended up doing. I soaked the tongue overnight to purge it and then bagged it with half an onion, a carrot, a 3 inch piece of celery, 2 tbs of sea salt, peppercorns, a sprig of thyme and three ice cubes of beef stock. I cooked it at 64C for 24 hours - a compromise in temp between NathanM and Keller and another Chef I know personally. I served it with 100 ml of a very neutral veal demi seasoned with a little bit of wasabi and further enriched with some apple juice which I reduced from about 250 ml to 60 ml.

It tasted delicious but next time I will do it for at least 48 hours. It was not quite soft enough and I could not get the skin to peel off - I had to remove it with a knife. This was a real pain in the butt.

I will also have more patience and brine it as it did not have enough of the corned tongue flavor I was wanting. NathanM's 56C made me nervous as I do not find medium rare tongue an appealing thought. But next time, I think if I have brined it, that I may follow NathanM. I would love to hear his comments because I could find nothing in the way of follow-up on how that worked out for people.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Merridith (log)

jk1002 · March 7, 2010

I compare them to shake shack which to me is the NYC gold standard. People wait 90 minutes and more in line to get them, is an outdoor pick up place in madison square park. They cook theirs through I believe, no pink inside, very juicy though and very flavorful. Even now in winter, late 3 o clock I waited more then half hour until I had mine in my hand. I actually believe the longer you wait the better it tastes, a psychological thing .....

In regards to binding agents, I dont think you need them Merridith since the bag will help to keep the patty in shape.

Guy MovingOn · March 7, 2010

Any ideas for sous vide guinea fowl?

and whole quail? They look so cute, I really want to sous vide them and present them in a mini casserole dish

e_monster · March 7, 2010

I compare them to shake shack which to me is the NYC gold standard. People wait 90 minutes and more in line to get them, is an outdoor pick up place in madison square park. They cook theirs through I believe, no pink inside, very juicy though and very flavorful. Even now in winter, late 3 o clock I waited more then half hour until I had mine in my hand. I actually believe the longer you wait the better it tastes, a psychological thing .....
In regards to binding agents, I dont think you need them Merridith since the bag will help to keep the patty in shape.

It sounds like you are going to have to experiment with different temperatures AND different meat. I would explore different fat content. One thing that will happen with meat that has hih fat content that is cooked at high temperatures is that you get a lot more fat rendering -- this can be interpreted as juiciness. It seems to me if something cooked well done seems juicy that it is probably the rendered fat that is doing the trick. You can also try adding a tablespoon or few of a weak (5% to 8%) brine.

I had the problem of brisket seeming dry when I first starting doing it sous-vide and realized after a lot of experimentation that the problem was the meat itself. Switching to a brisket with more marbling resulted in something that seemed juicier.

millions · March 8, 2010

I compare them to shake shack which to me is the NYC gold standard. People wait 90 minutes and more in line to get them, is an outdoor pick up place in madison square park. They cook theirs through I believe, no pink inside, very juicy though and very flavorful. Even now in winter, late 3 o clock I waited more then half hour until I had mine in my hand. I actually believe the longer you wait the better it tastes, a psychological thing .....
In regards to binding agents, I dont think you need them Merridith since the bag will help to keep the patty in shape.

Using 93% lean ground sirloin is not going to get you anything resembling the Shack Shake's burgers which are made from a blend of sirloin, chuck, and brisket. Very different flavor, and approximately 80% lean, which is worlds apart from the meat you used.

PedroG · March 11, 2010

... I bagged them ... using my normal SV pressure (97%) in my chamber machine.
I cannot be sure of the exact vacuum which is pulled at that setting, but I find it is sufficient to extract enough air so that the bags easily sink. ...
Ummm.
A question.
Yes we know that bags floating horizontally is not good.
And yes, its good to get as much air out as you can. Though I'm sure that the last small bubbles aren't critical.
But isn't it a worthwhile idea (at least for those without such chamber machines) to routinely use solid glass gems/nuggets/pebbles/cubes to add a little weight to the bottom of all bags to prevent any bag ever floating horizontally?
These items are food-safe, non-tainting, cheap, re-usable, freezable, easily washable, can be blasted in the oven for as long as you like to sterilise them and then stored in a sealed sterilised jamjar.
Since they need to be found and removed before service, maybe unusual colours (like blue) are a good thing!
Its probably also worthwhile choosing those with a simple shape and a shiny-smooth surface for better sanitisation.
Examples:
Clear cubes in the UK http://www.carnmeal.com/details/1990/glass-ice-cubes-1-kilo-approx
Blue pebbles in the UK http://www.dotcomgiftshop.com/deep-blue-glass-gems-in-bag400g
Blue cubes in the USA http://www.save-on-crafts.com/bluecubes1.html
or Blue 'vase gems' http://www.save-on-crafts.com/skybluvasgem.html
But if you have a local floristry supplier, they should be cheaper than mailing ballast.