Carrot Top

It really shouldn't "alarm" you if there is nothing to it, or if you think the comment foolish. No need for you to "go there". Some people might want to, though. You do want to be inclusive, I am sure.

There are two things that stand out in the difference between food in Thailand and food in the US (to me). The first is taste. It is likely that most Thai food is served close to the source. Both in the way of farm to mouth and in the way of ingredient to recipe. There is a visceral reality to the food in general that is not found in the food in general in the US. You will not find a general trend towards foods taken and transformed into Twinkies - or frozen concoctions that are then reheated for people to eat (even by mid-range restaurants), as exists here in the US. We have a high degree of falsity of taste (or lack of flavor) in what is generally available to us here, often. I figure that is only out of the goodness of our national heart, dontcha think? Gotta keep the bio-techs and the food chemists employed somehow in this great country of ours. The second is the thread of something (forgive me, those of you who grimace at this word) spiritual that runs through the food that runs through life in Thailand, something that does not run through our food here. Here, food is considered essential not only in that it provides calories and nutrition (or alternately at the other end of the scale a great experience or a great story to tell about the fantastic theatre that a high-end restaurant can be). In Thailand it seems it is also, as a part of daily life in general, a carrier of good wishes - of care to others - of a shared history that resides not only in the soil but also within the heart. Does this have something to do with what our characters and strivings are (or have been) in general as nations? Who we are, as nations, philosophically - "what we stand for" - might have a great deal to do with what our food is like.

If I were walking into your store, Pam, one gift idea I would either love to have or love to give would be a gift certificate for "A Soup a Week" for (however many weeks). What a treat! One of those gifts that "keeps on giving". (Wait! There's still time! Got a computer and a printer? Instant gift certificates. . . ) Karen

The idea is spreading even to the Goyim, Pam. My ex's family (half French-Canadian Catholic/half English High Anglican) used to have Chinese food for Christmas. Every year - on the day *after* Christmas. That apparently makes it uh, "kosher" shall we say? Karen

Hopefully someone who has both at hand will chime in with a better response than I can give, Lyle - for I gave the newer version away some time ago. I just remember a sense of importance seemed to be lost in the newer version - to me it was this more than anything else. The descriptions seemed shorter and blunter, and it seemed as if some ephermera was lost. It would seem strange that an "encyclopedia" would get smaller rather than larger over time, but this was my feeling. ................................. I just opened the door to find another package. This time it is the two-volume set of The Oxford Enclyclopedia of Food and Drink in America. Suddenly I am tired. Though pleased. I wonder how this one stacks up against Mariani's.

What do you see "real food for real people" as being, Austin? It would be good to hear more specifically what you have in mind. Karen

Even though not on a desert island anymore (I was, in a sense all those years ago while reading Larousse as I lived on a boat with the only responsibilities being to make sure it didn't sink ) it is true that reading food-geekery is still a vibrant attraction of mine -so I make my own island. What this means is that the bed gets covered with books thrown in piles, some coffee nearby (obviously it would not do to live on a desert island that had no coffee) and a cat, and I am stuck desert-island like with my own company and the wonderful piles of books. Oxford does seem the best bet for this as I look more closely at the books here. Waverly Root's "Food" is good, but it may be that some "facts" have been updated in the Oxford book. His style is loveable, though. It might be worthwhile to do some side-by-side comparisons of entries to see if any discernible differences are to be found. The Cambridge set is very serious. There is more of a focus on "health" in these volumes, lots of science with "tables" of this and that, so that might require browsing rather than reading or I may fall asleep too often. Mariani I haven't read yet - will have to add that to the list. I have heard many good things about it. Thanks for the reminder. P.S. Yes, the old Larousse is the right Larousse. Karen

An early Christmas gift arrived today and I opened it, being not of the sort who waits. In the box were several wonderful volumes. The Cambridge World History of Food; and The Oxford Companion to Food. From my bookshelves I've pulled out Waverly Root's "Food" and Larousse Gastronomique. I've dabbled in all of these books - Larousse and Root are falling apart at the seams. Larousse I actually read in its entirety many years ago. ............................................................ Tell me, what do you think each of these volumes has to offer in their own individual way? Do they each have a "personality"? Is each of them worth reading entry-by-entry or not? Any exceptional things you have found or do you have any curious personal notes on any of these books? Would love to hear your comments before deciding if I have to read them all entry-by-entry. For that is fun in ways, but tiring, too. (Must I put this on my "to-do" list? ) All advice welcomed. Karen

I adored this entire post, Zuke. Quiet is like air, to me. Sometimes one just needs to fill oneself with a huge breath of it and feel its expansiveness. I did have to laugh a bit at the Starbucks bus stop visual. Now that does seem a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, to me.

Smoke without fire? Or not. You decide. Advertising and Children's Eating Habits: Scholarly Data Bless you all who have the strength of purpose and sureness of act that will enable you to manage your own children through it all. If you don't have them yet, then when you do. May you never have to be a single parent, without family support or perhaps without family; or even a parent who for some reason needs to take a low-paying job (through some strange inexplicable action of the universe that would require this even though you may have a degree or two and vast and good work experience) and therefore perhaps have to leave your child(ren) home alone sometimes because babysitters cost more than you can afford to pay on a meagre income. Ah! Let's not be sure this will never happen to anybody. Life can be stranger than fiction. Of course the television could be monitored so tightly that no ads could come through and the computer the same. Yes, of course. And of course when you told the children your very good reasons for not liking whatever junk they were asking you for, they would finally agree and definitely not go against your wishes. ............................................................. Personally, I've found that each time I've snickered at what someone else thinks is a problem that I may have felt superior to, from just being human and part of the human condition that pushes one at times into being so damn sure that one is *right* about things - and that everyone else should just "get it together" - somehow the universe comes along with a lesson to teach me about the reasons why sometimes not everyone is equally strong or smart or whatever it is that one thinks one is. These lessons are the sort that enter directly into life are not fun to learn. They are, however, humbling. I say the child and the parent are more important than the advertising dollars that are made through these freedoms that extend into our homes. I feel for the child and the parents. Not for the corporations or for some pipe-dream of "non-utopian" intellectualized sloppy lines drawn by whomever has the deepest pockets.

2006 will be the year I eat whatever I want to without apologizing to the Culinary Polizia. At all. As a matter of fact, I believe I will indeed be laughingly rude to whomever questions what I eat. I'll make friends this year with people who are curious about food in ways beyond the mundane or simplistic, in ways philosophic that extends beyond the fork plate cut of meat tastebud and perfectly placed napkin (of recyclable paper or linen - doesn't matter much to me). In searching each day, I'll find a path that fits me, where there are smiles and welcomes along with any shared recipes. This is possible, I know (for anyone that doubts it, for themselves or for me ) for I've experienced it before. I'll learn to walk away when it is time to walk away without looking back in either anger or disgust, from any bad meal that I might eat without being aware that it *was* bad, before tasting it. I have no ideas of what I have to teach, if anything, except just to do one's best at whatever task happens to be there. Maybe I can teach someone that if the bread comes out strange or lumpy, just make it into croutons. . .if the cake is flat, make it into a trifle. If the fruit is tasteless - well. Just don't buy fruit at that store again. I'll read Rochefoucald and Martha Grimes, SJ Perelman and Oscar Wilde. I will try to rid my shelves of the endless piles of cookbooks that sit, quietly, waiting, never to be used by me. Someone else might like them very much. To taste? More things that taste of themselves, hopefully. That might mean starting a garden and building a chicken coop. I sort of hope not, though. I'll use the things in the cupboard up before buying more or different, for this mass consumption is beginning to seem endlessly obnoxious. I, we, my kids: All I can hope for here is health and goodwill. That, is no small hope, is it. I hope this for each one of you, too. Happy 2006 and many returns.

Patrick: Personally I have set up my life so that my children get as much of my time as they need. But I have already had a successful career and have had a full life and have enough money to do this. I do *not* wish to make this a "class" issue. What I wish for is to see the children who do *not* for whatever reason, have someone supervising them in a good and positive manner, to be free from things that will bring them down rather than up. Fast food marketing is one of these things, in my opinion. I make no excuses for parents who are not there for their children. But it is not really them that I care about. It is the children. The children can not make their parents give more time or care than the parents have or can give - and the children do not have other resources, often.

Soccer games are great. Yes, the children there are not obese, are they. Take a look at who they are and how they got to the soccer game, though. They are the children who have a parent who can transport them there, for all those practices two or three or four times a week. They are the children who can afford the uniforms. They are not the children with a parent who, while not wishing to neglect them, simply can *not* drive them to practices because they work long hours or odd hours and don't make enough money to pay someone to transport them. I have not seen a school system yet that provided busses to take kids to soccer practice. There are kids that are falling through the cracks. There are have been, there always will be. (Yes, it would be great if other parents would offer help to these kids, but the other parents generally are running around like chickens with their heads cut off dealing with their own kids and their own stuff. It just does not happen.) These kids do not need to be sold on crap as they sit alone at home in front of the television. Parent's fault? I don't know. My mother was one of these parents. I don't "blame" her. She did not have the wherewithal to do it in the way that some do. This "marketing" will not affect the strong, the monied, the settled, the "everything-is-okay's" people. It *will* affect those who are not. It provides easy access to ideas of "okay-ness" while not actually providing anything. It is bullsh*t.

As parents, we are responsible for our children and their health as much as is humanly possible. As members of society, we build our own culture. The "solution" to any complex problem is never apparent and often unobtainable in a perfect form. Corporations should make money. I have absolutely no problem with that. That is what they are supposed to do. As a parent, it is up to me to take care of my children. As a member of society (no matter how ambivalent I am about even having to be this thing), it is up to me to say when it seems to me that things are off-balance in the ways they are operating. I think to live in a culture where selling "whatever" is in my face as often as it is, as loudly as it is, is off-balance. Yes, I do turn off the TV etc etc. Still, I would like to see the "noise" level of this stuff reduced in our culture. To me, the noise level is part of the problem. Who can stop to think when constantly bombarded? It is like running from one loud room to another with no respite. Some people have no problem compartmentalizing to avoid the larger effect. Some people are take-charge types who whoosh through the world making their own way. But some are not. A lot are not. A lot of people are reactive. It takes a huge amount of energy to get beyond being reactive and not all people have that to summon. My own feeling is that a lot of obesity stems from many people in our culture feeling unfulfilled, unsatisfied, and incapable of changing things enough in their lives to hit the level that the media throws out into the air as being the way one should be. The constant demands for perfection in our culture simply can not be met by the majority. There is a split between reality and created demand, a created demand that is in our faces everywhere, pervasive because media is everywhere. This leads to anomie. Where does anomie lead? One place it can lead to is stuffing one's face with food. Let corporations make money. Please. I like money. Let parents care for their children in good and full ways. Please, please. But get this sh*t out of our faces. We should not need to keep watch to beware of it. It should sell itself in less demanding and sometimes, to some people, finally excruciating ways. It is not marketing's "fault". No. But it is not good, either, the sort of dance upon society that "marketing" is doing in some cases.

It is not only anecdotal information which should be taken with a grain of salt, in my opinion. Any piece of information really should be looked at to decide whether it is accurate, fair, clear, and of course to decide what it was created to "do" in the first place - what was the intent of the reported information - what was its mission? And no, I am not trying to exclude anyone. Though I do get cranky often about this world where everyone seems to have become a critic or an expert in any given field. I do tend to look for either credentialism (oh no - I do not mean a formal "degree" in something, I mean experience, hands on experience) or proven competency in a field of knowledge before I really want to take the word of anybody discussing that topic. Would I ask someone who had never approached a stove nor cracked an egg how to make an omelette? Would you? Would their information be as valid as someone that *had* done it, or someone who had even done it for years, or even done it as a professional? Therefore my comments. It would seem more valid to me to listen to someone who had been successful at whatever it is they are talking about. I do have children. They are not obese nor unhealthy. But I do see a lot of heavy kids, kids in elementary school who weigh more than I do. They do sports, some of them. Most of the obese children don't, though. There is nothing wrong with corporate profits nor anything else as long as the concepts of fairness are intact and in place. Having spent some portion of my life on Wall Street as a corporate VP, I am fairly certain that rules are made to be broken though, and not just by the man on the street. I feel that schools need to do more than merely teach nutrition. Nutrition can be very boring. That "food pyramid" sent home as homework will be done and then the child will reach for the nearest bag of potato chips. Which is fine as long as the child is healthy and not obese. The schools need to actually feed the children healthy food. We, the parents, need to feed the children healthy food. Is it okay if my own kids are not obese? Is it okay that I am managing okay with my kids - is that enough? I am not sure. I look at the other kids and worry. I look at the people in the street, and yes I have to agree that the most recent report that states 23% of the American population is obese is pretty near the mark. Is it okay to just say "Let them figure it out themselves if they want to"? Maybe that is the right thing to do. If I thought that all the fat people walking around were happy and healthy being that way, I would do just that. But I do not think they are - and even though part of that unhappiness might be formed by our society that demands a certain "look" from us, there is more to it than that, it seems to me. The heart does not work as well when carrying fat. The feet hurt. Breaths do not come easily. Is this all okay? If so then I will stop worrying about the one-quarter of the people I see walking around every day that are in this shape. I believe in personal responsibility and in taking care of your own. But something seems to have gone rather wrong in a big way here in this area - and I think that at this point advertising and marketing needs to be a little more aware of their part of this problem, and they need to react - for the betterment of society. They will not do so without being pushed to. It is not what they do. They are there to make money. They will not respond without enough people saying "get out of my face, I've had enough of your nonsense." I've had enough of their nonsense. And I continue to worry about those children who for some reason eat nothing but junk and who continue to become larger and unhealthier - whether they are my child or not.

Anyone with questions as to the levels of child obesity should visit an elementary school and just look. If that is not enough, then speak to any phys ed teacher at any elementary school. .................................. And I would hope that anyone who speaks of how to raise children has done it, and very successfully. .................................... Diversity is wonderful. So is walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

Eh. My eyes are crossing just trying to read all this. I imagine it must be like practicing the piano though. Just do it. How does one handle books that are in private libraries/out of print? Are these to be included or not - and are the location(s) of such rarities to be disclosed in the annotation and if so where and how? (I guess where this question is leading to is what the final use of this bibliography on Italian food would become - something that would be more of use for actual cookery or general reading/inquiries or something with a goal of providing source to the entire scope of Italian food literature as a genre. . .)

Thank you.

I'm confused as usual. And slightly enthralled at this idea, too. So I'll ask some questions. Why Italy? Or "just" Italy? What would be included in this? So far books have been mentioned; internet sources; articles. Would this be something where Lexus/Nexus sources would be searched also? Could it be started in a generally democratic messy sort of fashion or not? To see what actually *would* hit the list if anything? Would it be more beneficial to focus on a smaller part of the overall scheme first - say - books on Italian Soups? Or would that be just sort of stupid and confusing? Does everyone know the same form for writing an Annotated Bibliography? Ninth-grade dropouts like me just might do it wrong, you know. It sounds like a massive project - and a fun project - and it also sounds like the sort of project that would give a sort of credibility to wherever (or to whomever) published it - whether the final resting place was online or not. One of the failings of online resources that the academic world often mentions (and also, increasingly, this is mentioned in the "regular world") is veracity of source. This sort of annotated bibliography might provide a path towards changing that sense. Personally, I adore All Things Library and All Things Books. It would be fascinating to see this happen, if somehow the time and desire were to be found by people here and there. Good luck! (Buona fortuna?)

Mm hm. I have not met a child yet with parent(s) of the ardent and definitive Tofu-Type who does not try to raid the cupboards or fridge of any junk food to be found like starving little lemmings anywhere else they happen to visit when Autocracy is not around. The parent can not always be there with the ruler in hand like the nuns who used to teach in parochial school - always ready to strike (however gently and caringly with their words shaped into the smacking rulers). And I wonder how very effective that ruler in hand that smacked down so hard on children's "incorrect" little fingers really is. Gosh. Lots of people I know that grew up being loudly taught "NO" ran as fast as they could in the opposite direction as soon as they could. Balance. Moderation. And knowing when you are being "marketed" to or. . . ."pandered" to. These sorts of "marketing" are pandering to our lowest urges. Well, okay. Maybe not our lowest. But pretty close to it, when it comes to food. Reminds me of a Groucho Marx line: "A five-year old could understand this! Someone go fetch me a five-year old!"

I have a recipe for Black Walnut Cake, an old traditional one. If you need it, PM me and I'll send it along.

Two issues strike me as core points within this discussion. First, the responsibilities of the parent(s). It would seem that nobody at all is arguing that the responsibility of the parent is not the ultimate one when raising a child. It is nobody elses' job, really - in an imperfect world. We can hope that our government (which we build as a society) will be there to do the things we (as a majority) hope are right and good. We can hope that the multi-national corporations which some argue are as strong as or stronger than the government in shaping our lives will do the right and good thing to create a fine world for our children. We can hope that our neighbors and our towns and cities would do the right thing and look out for our children through providing safe environments, happy environments, healthy environments. But bottom line, we can not *count* on other people doing what is *right*. It is finally up to the parent(s) to negotiate this path their child will tread - a path which will set their belief systems and their way of being as they form themselves into the adult version of themselves. Following along on this thought of knowing that it is the parent(s) responsibility - and knowing that the world is not a gentle nor an easy nor a simple place to live in "nowadays" - then it would seem appropriate to look closely at the influences that enter into a child's life. A major influence *is* advertising and marketing and public relations. (Yes, there are three categories of this stuff that people are employed in every day trying to find ways to make money for their company's products.) Kids today spend more time in media-land than any kid in times before. The neighborhoods do not exist in most places where they go out and play in the afternoons, knowing that there is someone in the houses to watch out for them if they fall and hurt themselves playing ball or whatever. They are inside the houses, often alone or with siblings, watching TV or surfing the internet. Being bombarded not by fresh air and bantering of friends but by sales pitches by whomever has the bucks to post them on TV or the internet. It would seem almost negligent to *not* take a close look at this stuff and to speak up as to how and when and in what shape they can enter our homes. Of course this is only my opinion, and I am someone who hangs up the phone on telemarketers, for I believe my home is my place of enjoyment, not a sales floor. Parents today have massive time constraints placed on them -whether they are "educated" or not. The forty-hour work week is a thing of the past for the most part. Most homes are homes where two parents work, or of course another segment which is growing is the single parent home where the parent does the job that used to be done by two parents, solo. Often, it is not willfull neglect by a parent when a kid eats fast food or junk food - it is more a question for most parents of figuring out how to cope with hungry children, no time, and lots of stress in our environment. Add strong marketing ploys that have been developed by highly trained professionals with teams of psychologists sitting alongside them figuring out which internal buttons should be pushed in the "mark" ("mark": an old word used by cardsharks and conmen - oh well I don't know if there were conwomen maybe there were - to define who they were going to strip of their funds and pride) or as we say now uh. . .the "consumer" - and you've got the boat loaded way over to one side, so much so that it constantly tips over. .................................................................................... The second issue is just a note on advertising/marketing/public relations. Mostly here the discussion has been about TV commercials. In "Marketing 101" they are now teaching that the new way to sell things is *not* through advertising for we've all sort of caught on to that one and know how to talk it down with the kids. The new way is through public relations campaigns that are posted as sources of information on the internet. Most products sold in the grocery stores come in packages. Each of these packages has a website address, some even with games and contests and prizes to be won if you log on (or if the child does). When the website is accessed, there is no direct selling done, but instead there are marvellous public relations "informational" displays. Guess what. They were not written to provide the world with knowledge. They were written (directed to be written) with the agenda of selling the product. *That* is one way the children are now being sold on food products. Not directly, but with a pose of "hey we're all here to help you". ............................................................... Again, corporations exist to make money. They are this way to not only give their shareholders profits but also to keep people, lots of people, employed - including of course their CEO's whose compensation on an average is 143 times the rate of what an average employee at the same corporation gets paid. Do they really care if you want healthier food for your kids? .................................................................... It is not commonplace that every parent in America has a team of highly paid, well-educated, psychologists in the house with them ten hours each day to help raise their children, to help them negotiate the path of life in a happy, pleasant, ethical, positive way. So the balance - simply is not equal here. The parent *is* at a disadvantage, and if they are not clear that it is so, then so much the worse for them (perhaps). Personally, I don't like the idea of being anybody's "mark". So personally, I will continue to be diligent about what corporate America is trying to sell us (for their own profits) and will also sigh often and become angry occassionally at how very often it happens that I simply can not do it as well as I would like to. Raising children has never been an easy task throughout history. And now, even they are "marks".

A useful tool to have handy when reading information provided "for our use and benefit" by corporations whose mission is to answering to their shareholder's demands is the following book: On Bullshit

It can become an even bigger problem when the kids are that age, Kelly. The questions and concerns that every pre-teen and teenager has to face daily, along with their parent(s), are enormous and often definitive to a point of "who they will be" when they do reach this shaky thing called "adulthood". ........................................................ This is a question of ethics. We are a society that values the dollar. These products rake in the dollar for their producers, and for all the people involved in the industry attached to it. America loves the dollar. But are these products making us unhealthy? Overweight? Are these products value for money? What are we being sold? A chimera. . . or something real and valuable. And most of all - how are we being sold it? In a way that is intrusive of the sense of how we think things *should* be - or is their unfair pressure being exerted, a pressure that invades our privacy in ways. . . All is fair in love, war, and business - but the rules will be set by those who speak. The dollar does not merely speak. It swears.

Jeez. The guilt is terrible. Okay, for once it was an easy recipe to find. Here it is: 3/4 C dried chick peas 1 -2 Tbs. chopped garlic (as you like it!) 3 Tbs. olive oil (she used Bertolli all-purpose being a mother of six children with a husband who supported the family as a barber, but I imagine it would be even better with ei ei ei EVOO?) 1 tsp. rosemary, crushed dried 2/3 C canned Italian plum tomatoes coarsely chopped with their juice 1 1/2 C rich beef broth (or substitute any sort of stock in a pinch) Salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste 1 Tbs. olive oil per bowlful 1 Tbs. freshly minced herbs per bowlful (she would use flatleaf parsley, thyme, basil, mint, whatever was at hand) 1. Soak chickpeas overnight (or do quick-cook method). Discard water and rinse. 2. Cover ceci with water to cover plus an inch in heavy pot. Bring to simmer and cook one and one half hours. Test for "doneness". Simmer till they feel "right" to your teeth. 3. Meanwhile saute garlic in 3 Tbs. olive oil. Add rosemary and tomatoes. Simmer half an hour. 4. Stir tomato mix into cooked ceci with broth. Simmer half an hour more. Season with salt and pepper, ladle into bowl and top with olive oil and herbs. Serve with a nice hot loaf to sop with. Disclaimer: I haven't made this recipe in many years. I do know that she wasn't much for measurements in cookery and often I remember needing to adjust liquid ingredients when she would give me a written recipe. But the spirit is here for what this soup is (in this recipe) and I am sure that any good cook will be able to make whatever small adjustments are needed. Basta, ya!