French and Japanese cooking

[origamicrane]

hi there i was wondering

are there many french restuarants in japan?

mainly asking becuase i am trying to cook a 5 course meal with some japanese and some french dishes in.

anyone got any suggestions ?

[torakris]

hi there i was wondering

are there many french restuarants in japan?

mainly asking becuase i am trying to cook a 5 course meal with some japanese and some french dishes in.

anyone got any suggestions ?

←

There are more French restaurants than you can imagine and also there are many places that do a sort of fusion though they don't actually call it that....

Are you looking for more fusion ideas or French dishes that go well with Japanese dishes?

[chefzadi]

I've seen some of those Iron Chef (the original) episodes and the French food prepared by Iron Chef France always looked more Japanese to me.

With that said, I think that Japanese chefs tend to be more adept at French-Japanese or French-Asian fusion thant French French chefs are. I'm much more intrigued by what they do in this area than with what I have seen French chefs do.

I do have some suggestions for you origamicrane. I'm convinced that I am half Asian by now. Is this a home meal or a professional job?

EDIT: I'm wondering if Zeitoun has a few ideas?

Edited March 12, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[sizzleteeth]

I've seen some of those Iron Chef (the original) episodes and the French food prepared by Iron Chef France always looked more Japanese to me.

←

Sakai's restaurant (La Rochelle) looks really interesting.

http://www.la-rochelle.co.jp/

Tastingmenu.com actually photographed a meal there a couple of years back:

http://tastingmenu.com/media/2003/20030910...lle/default.htm

I'd like to try and check this out.

[origamicrane]

thanks guys

sizzle those photos look yummy.

zadi this is for a professional job i'm entering a cooking competition.

torakris i'm looking for both fusion and french dishes to go with japanese dishes.

here my initial idea and apologies if i comes across quite pretentious

well it is for a cooking compeitition.

my idea is to make a tasting menu so portions are small

i start with two japanese dishes.

in the middle i have a japanese/french fusion dish

and finish with a french main and dessert.

preliminary menu is

1. raw rock shrimp with kiwi sauce

2. black cod and miso

3. pan fried foie gras with warm scallops, green pea puree and roast hazlenuts

4. chicken ballotine stuffed with pancetta and porcini

sides dishes: wilted spinach, mash, french beans, green leaf salad.

5. pomelo with lemon balm and candy floss.

6. chocolate souffle and green tea ice cream

only thing is that this menu does quite read quite right to me.

any suggestions on how i could change some of the dishes to flow more easily?

[sizzleteeth]

Well I like the starter, kiwi is fairly acidic and depending on the amount of sauce could actually lend a ceviche style element to the raw shrimp and acid is a good way to start off your palate for the oily nature of the sablefish.

I would say, when you say miso I am assuming you are talking shiro miso because the fish has a very delicate flavor and a darker/older

miso would over-power. That dish – depending on how the fish was cooked could either use a bit of an acid balance or you could accentuate the oil in the fish by making a white miso butter sauce.

That leads into the richness of foie gras, which I’ve never had with scallops– a sweet green pea and roast hazelnut combination sounds great with the foie gras – I almost want to lose or replace the scallops – but I guess if they were small bay scallops just barely cooked they might blend right in especially if you sliced them thin.

I like the progression of “poor to rich” in the flavors.

The “Ballotine” I can’t evaluate unless I know what you intend to use, I can see braised leeks maybe stuffed with porcini then wrapped with the pancetta and the chicken and I like the wilted spinach and the mash but the beans could be too much texture and if the “salad” is just a garnish of petite greens that sounds right on.

I like the idea of the palate cleanser next and I assume you mean lemon balm the herb with the grapefruit like pomelo – the cotton candy would need to be sparse in my opinion – something that dissolves immediately and adds sweetness but really no texture (but that’s just me).

I’m biased on the soufflé because I’ve never really been a soufflé fan but chocolate and green tea ice cream sounds good – also the soufflé would be damn risky especially as the last dish - but I can see your point of ending with some soothing smoothness.

[sizzleteeth]

Also if you get into it and start looking for ideas you might consider looking at some French Vietnamese recipes - I love this cuisine - some of the better seafood meals I've ever had have been French Vietnamese.

[origamicrane]

Well I like the starter, kiwi is fairly acidic and depending on the amount of sauce could actually lend a ceviche style element to the raw shrimp and acid is a good way to start off your palate for the oily nature of the sablefish.

I would say, when you say miso I am assuming you are talking shiro miso because the fish has a very delicate flavor and a darker/older

miso would over-power. That dish – depending on how the fish was cooked could either use a bit of an acid balance or you could accentuate the oil in the fish by making a white miso butter sauce.

That leads into the richness of foie gras, which I’ve never had with scallops– a sweet green pea and roast hazelnut combination sounds great with the foie gras – I almost want to lose or replace the scallops – but I guess if they were small bay scallops just barely cooked they might blend right in especially if you sliced them thin.

I like the progression of “poor to rich” in the flavors.

The “Ballotine” I can’t evaluate unless I know what you intend to use, I can see braised leeks maybe stuffed with porcini then wrapped with the pancetta and the chicken and I like the wilted spinach and the mash but the beans could be too much texture and if the “salad” is just a garnish of petite greens that sounds right on.

I like the idea of the palate cleanser next and I assume you mean lemon balm the herb with the grapefruit like pomelo – the cotton candy would need to be sparse in my opinion – something that dissolves immediately and adds sweetness but really no texture (but that’s just me).

I’m biased on the soufflé because I’ve never really been a soufflé fan but chocolate and green tea ice cream sounds good – also the soufflé would be damn risky especially as the last dish - but I can see your point of ending with some soothing smoothness.

←

cool

i'm using yuzu miso for the sablefish i'm thinking a citrus note leading from the kiwi

although to be honest the black cod and miso i make usually is on the sweet side not sure if i should reduce the sweetness of this?

yeah the scallops with the foie are literally just warmed through, so the foie and scallops have a similar texture you should make it some time its really nice.

for the ballotine stuffing i mince up the thigh and leg meat and mix with fried diced pancetta, garlic and shallots, some breadcrumbs, chopped porcini, a little tarragon, seasoning. The thing is i'm thinking of a dark jus sauce for the ballotine made from lamb and chicken bones not sure on if there is a more appropriate sauce?

for teh salad just some green leaves but do i need to put a dressing on?

if yes? what kind?

yep lemon balm, lemon mint. The candy floss is just shredded into small bit size

chunks and spread over the peeled pomelo slices, it looks like you are eating a cloud

for the souffle why do you think it is risky? risky to make? or risky in the course of the meal?

[sizzleteeth]

cool

i'm using yuzu miso for the sablefish i'm thinking a citrus note leading from the kiwi

although to be honest the black cod and miso i make usually is on the sweet side  not sure if i should reduce the sweetness of this?

I definitely wasn't thinking sweet - but then I haven't had your dish. Sweet and miso - I'll have to try that out.

for the ballotine stuffing i mince up the thigh and leg meat and mix with fried diced pancetta, garlic and shallots, some breadcrumbs, chopped porcini, a little  tarragon, seasoning. The thing is i'm thinking of a dark jus sauce for the ballotine made from lamb and chicken bones not sure on if there is a more appropriate sauce?

Hard to go wrong with garlic, shallots, mushroom, tarragon and lamb stock - this whole dish does seem to stick out a bit though - but it sounds good on it's own.

for the salad just some green leaves but do i need to put a dressing on?

if yes? what kind?

I don't think so with the sauce - I was picturing small cylinders on top of the spinach and mash with very delicate sprouts - which in that case a bit of walnut oil perhaps - but in the version you describe with the jus - no.

yep lemon balm, lemon mint.  The candy floss is just shredded into small bit size

chunks and spread over the peeled pomelo slices, it looks like you are eating a cloud 

That's how I pictured it - I do hope you mean "threads". (nevermind I need to sleep - I missed the word shredded and just saw "chunks")

for the souffle why do you think it is risky? risky to make? or risky in the course of the meal?

Risky to make. Risky to sit. Risky to transport in a contest environment - but I'm sure you're up to it. Done well, could be a bonus.

Edited March 12, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[origamicrane]

for the ballotine stuffing i mince up the thigh and leg meat and mix with fried diced pancetta, garlic and shallots, some breadcrumbs, chopped porcini, a little  tarragon, seasoning. The thing is i'm thinking of a dark jus sauce for the ballotine made from lamb and chicken bones not sure on if there is a more appropriate sauce?

Hard to go wrong with garlic, shallots, mushroom, tarragon and lamb stock - this whole dish does seem to stick out a bit though - but it sounds good on it's own.

for the salad just some green leaves but do i need to put a dressing on?

if yes? what kind?

I don't think so with the sauce - I was picturing small cylinders on top of the spinach and mash with very delicate sprouts - which in that case a bit of walnut oil perhaps - but in the version you describe with the jus - no.

yep lemon balm, lemon mint.  The candy floss is just shredded into small bit size

chunks and spread over the peeled pomelo slices, it looks like you are eating a cloud 

That's how I pictured it - I do hope you mean "threads". (nevermind I need to sleep - I missed the word shredded and just saw "chunks")

for the souffle why do you think it is risky? risky to make? or risky in the course of the meal?

Risky to make. Risky to sit. Risky to transport in a contest environment - but I'm sure you're up to it. Done well, could be a bonus.

←

thanks for that sizzle really helpful

The reason this menu didn't sit qute well with me was that the japanese and french theme seemed a little disjointed.

but you comments really helped

especially with the ballotine just picturing the presentation

a bed of wilted spinach, tower of mash and mizuna leaves on the top

3 slices of the ballotine arranged round the tower a drizzle of the sauce

and here were i put back the japanese theme back in

some edamame peas sprinkled round and maybe using shittake for porcini? got to try that tonight

[sizzleteeth]

Of course never having had any of this made by you - anything i say can only hold a little water at best.

Good luck - I wanna know how it goes!!!

Edited March 12, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[chefzadi]

cool

i'm using yuzu miso for the sablefish i'm thinking a citrus note leading from the kiwi

although to be honest the black cod and miso i make usually is on the sweet side  not sure if i should reduce the sweetness of this?

I was thinking of a kiwi vinaigrette of sorts. As for the miso, will it be a glaze, a broth,

what form will it be?

for the ballotine stuffing i mince up the thigh and leg meat and mix with fried diced pancetta, garlic and shallots, some breadcrumbs, chopped porcini, a little  tarragon, seasoning. The thing is i'm thinking of a dark jus sauce for the ballotine made from lamb and chicken bones not sure on if there is a more appropriate sauce?

If you're doing a dark jus stick with chicken, the lamb would be too strong. I make a chicken demi-glace using browned bones. The flavor is delicate.

for the salad just some green leaves but do i need to put a dressing on?

if yes? what kind?

Don't serve greens with nothing on them. Dress gently with a neutral oil and citrus juice, salt and pepper.

yep lemon balm, lemon mint.  The candy floss is just shredded into small bit size

chunks and spread over the peeled pomelo slices, it looks like you are eating a cloud 

Sounds nice.

for the souffle why do you think it is risky? risky to make? or risky in the course of the meal?

Depends on how practiced you are at making souffles. I would do a vanilla one though with green tea.

[origamicrane]

cool

i'm using yuzu miso for the sablefish i'm thinking a citrus note leading from the kiwi

although to be honest the black cod and miso i make usually is on the sweet side  not sure if i should reduce the sweetness of this?

I was thinking of a kiwi vinaigrette of sorts. As for the miso, will it be a glaze, a broth,

what form will it be?

for the ballotine stuffing i mince up the thigh and leg meat and mix with fried diced pancetta, garlic and shallots, some breadcrumbs, chopped porcini, a little  tarragon, seasoning. The thing is i'm thinking of a dark jus sauce for the ballotine made from lamb and chicken bones not sure on if there is a more appropriate sauce?

If you're doing a dark jus stick with chicken, the lamb would be too strong. I make a chicken demi-glace using browned bones. The flavor is delicate.

for the salad just some green leaves but do i need to put a dressing on?

if yes? what kind?

Don't serve greens with nothing on them. Dress gently with a neutral oil and citrus juice, salt and pepper.

yep lemon balm, lemon mint.  The candy floss is just shredded into small bit size

chunks and spread over the peeled pomelo slices, it looks like you are eating a cloud 

Sounds nice.

for the souffle why do you think it is risky? risky to make? or risky in the course of the meal?

Depends on how practiced you are at making souffles. I would do a vanilla one though with green tea.

←

thats right the kiwi sauce is a vinegrette mixed with mirin, rice vinegar and sugar teh end result should be sourish and sharp.

the miso is a yuzu miso marinade for the fish. mix the miso with sake and mirin marinate and grill very simple.

i'm intereseted in the demi glace is there a thread on egullet ?

as the lamb jus is very nice but even i think it seems a little strong for the chicken.

to be honest i think i'm pretty good a souffles as i never had one collapse on me yet!! hmmm... vanilla souffle i like it.

so if you were going to do a cross cuisine menu what dishes would you choose?

[chefzadi]

I don't know if there is a thread on egullet covering chicken demi-glace. It's not even something that most chefs bother with for roast chicken the way I do. I will have to think about how to explain it to you and post it later. It's not that complicated, so I want my explanation to be simple and clear.

I wouldn't neccessarily word the menu this way, but I'm trying to be as descriptive as possible. Also if you want I can translate your menu into French.

Off the top of my head, here goes...

1. Trio of amuse bouche

scallop samosa with saffron aioli

buckwheat blini with salmon roe and wasabi tobiko, creme fraiche, garnished with garlic chives

Monkfish liver en tranche with a soy and sake gastrique

(visualize the plate, something round, square and triangular)

2. Rock Shrimp in a vinaigrette (very lightly "cooked"ceviche maybe rice wine vinegar cut with citrus juice on a bed of baby greens, garnished with sushi style vegetables)

3. I like your idea of a miso marinade. So I'll stick with that but use Monkfish, roast it and plate it in a pool of broth (French fish fumet, heightened with the addition of bonito flakes)

4. Filet mignon with a sauce that combines a demi-glace and a jus. Mushrooms, Japanese of course.

5. Green Tea sorbet

6. I like the vanilla souffle, maybe a touch of something else. I'll have to think about it more.

[sizzleteeth]

Depends on how practiced you are at making souffles. I would do a vanilla one though with green tea.

←

Or you could switch it around and use Matcha to make a green tea souffle and vanilla ice cream - I do have to agree that vanilla and green tea are a great combination. So much so that it's making me crave it - I think I'm gonna have some green tea with vanilla right now. (damn you Zadi)

If you made vanilla ice cream you could drizzle it with a little honey.

I've never seen a green tea souffle.

[sizzleteeth]

3. I like your idea of a miso marinade. So I'll stick with that but use Monkfish, roast it and plate it in a pool of broth (French fish fumet, heightened with the addition of bonito flakes)

←

That sounds really good.

Me - I'd just serve the Monkfish whole.

Now that's what I call sashimi!!!

{edit}: (Sipping sounds.... vanilla aroma rising from a blue cup)

He was, in fact, a French Monkfish.... but multilinqual - he spoke Spanish, Turkish and something else... I couldn't make it out.

Edited March 13, 2005 by sizzleteeth (log)

[chefzadi]

Maybe an Asian Pear sorbet followed by a green tea souffle with vanilla ice cream?

Wow, we're cooking up some good stuff here.

[torakris]

1. raw rock shrimp with kiwi sauce

2. black cod and miso

3. pan fried foie gras with warm scallops, green pea puree and roast hazlenuts

4. chicken ballotine stuffed with pancetta and porcini

    sides dishes: wilted spinach, mash, french beans, green leaf salad.

5. pomelo with lemon balm and candy floss.

6. chocolate souffle and green tea ice cream

only thing is that this menu does quite read quite right to me.

any suggestions on how i could change some of the dishes to flow more easily?

←

seems like I am pretty late coming back into this thread....

Reading the menu, the main suggestions I would have for keeping in with the Japanese theme would be edamame instead of green peas and shiitake for the porcini but I notice that you already are considering that...

Maybe something with kabocha? roasted chunks instead of the mash? mashed kabacha? kabocha mash swirled in with the mash?

To my very non-professional eyes it just seems a bit lopsided, it needs a couple more Japanese ingredients.

I also like the idea of a matcha souffle, I have seen it done here before.

[touaregsand]

I write menus for my husband maybe my suggestions might be of use to you.

1. raw rock shrimp with kiwi sauce

Rock Shrimp Sashimi with Kiwi Mirin Vinaigrette

2. black cod and miso

Grilled Yuzu Miso Marinated Black Cod

3. pan fried foie gras with warm scallops, green pea puree and roast hazlenuts

Foie Gras Poele and Scallops with Green Pea Puree and Roasted Hazelnuts

4. chicken ballotine stuffed with pancetta and porcini

sides dishes: wilted spinach, mash, french beans, green leaf salad.

(I would pass on the green leaf salad, imho, well take the "h" out )

Chicken Ballotine with a Farcies of Pancetta and Porcini with Haricot Verts and Mashed Potatoes.

5. pomelo with lemon balm and candy floss.

Fresh Pomelo with a Candied Cloud

6. chocolate souffle and green tea ice cream

that one is straight forward enough.

EDIT: This is a first draft, once you finalize your menu I can do a "final" draft if you want me to.

Edited March 13, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[touaregsand]

zadi this is for a professional job i'm entering a cooking competition.

I have to ask who the "audience" is. My husband and I have done fusion for Asians and ya know the others, they like different things, that's what we've found.

[origamicrane]

Maybe an Asian Pear sorbet followed by a green tea souffle with vanilla ice cream?

Wow, we're cooking up some good stuff here. 

←

green tea souffle and vanilla ice cream??

hmm.... think i like it the other way round

vanilla souffle and green tea ice cream as i think this way round

i can make the vanilla souffle flavour quite strong yet not overly sweet.

I think a green tea souffle would have to be quite subtle in flavour and also i think it will lack the aroma of a hot vanilla souffle.

But i guess after the palate cleanser a subtle dessert will still work.

hmm... chicken or egg time

torakris what was your matcha souffle like? was it sweet?

That right kris the menu is lop sided when we get to the ballotine

any suggestion for an alternative dish?

a japanese dish with french tweaks?

or a french dish with japanese tweaks ?

the first 2 dishes are fish based then the scallops and foie

i can see the transistion from the rock shrimp to the fish to the scallops and foie but from that point on i'm kinda stuck. I guess i could just got for a full seafood menu and have another fish dish ? but think that be over doing it.

So chicken, beef, pork, lamb, duck, venison, ostrich, crocodile, buffalo, veggy, fish or shellfish.

[touaregsand]

That right kris the menu is lop sided when we get to the ballotine

any suggestion for an alternative dish?

a japanese dish with french tweaks?

or a french dish with japanese tweaks ?

Japanese ham (Kurobata?) and Japanese mushrooms, come to mind.

[torakris]

the matcha souffle I have had was not very sweet, like most Japanese desserts, just enough to counteract the bitterness.

[origamicrane]

zadi this is for a professional job i'm entering a cooking competition.

I have to ask who the "audience" is. My husband and I have done fusion for Asians and ya know the others, they like different things, that's what we've found.

←

they haven't confirmed me for the competition yet

but i think i got a good chance of getting on.

It a tv cooking competition basically 5 contestants take it in turn to cook a dinner party on consecutive nights.

At the end of each meal the other contestants score the meal and the person at the end of the week with most point wins.

As the judges are the other contestants there are no real rules. in fact you can buy your food pre-made, you can hire a caterer, you can order take out!!!

The only thing is can you convince the other contestants to give you high scores.

[sizzleteeth]

So chicken, beef, pork, lamb, duck, venison, ostrich, crocodile, buffalo, veggy, fish or shellfish.

←

That sounds good as one dish, "Flight of Meat".

Perhaps a cuttlefish or uni dish - one of the best French sauces I've ever had was a scallop roe cream sauce with squid ink.

But crocodile - now that would be a trick.