Advisability/Safety of Cooking Acidic Foods in Aluminum Cookware

[thdad]

I have to cook lunch for my church this Sunday and I was thinking about cooking a large batch of bolognese sauce to feed about 300 people. Our church has a gas-fired aluminum kettle that will easily cook and hold that amount of sauce.

Problem is that it is aluminum and I've read warnings that any acid will react with aluminum. How much of a problem would this pose if I simmered the sauce for just one hour?

[fiftydollars]

Aluminum does react with acid and whatnot. I mean, I wouldn't buy a large un-lined aluminum pan if I was always going to make tomato sauce in it. But you are cooking a large batch that cannot be easily accomodated by any other cooking vessel. I would use it and not worry about it. The reactivity of aluminum is not in the same league as un-lined cast iron. I have used many an old aluminum pot for cooking all sorts of things and although I cannot speak for the healthfulness of the technique I can say the food tasted just fine.

[phatj]

The chef at my fraternity (who actually made pretty good food, given the institutional context), used exclusively aluminum pots, and his tomato sauces tasted fine.

[Ross.ucf]

I am not positive, but I believe the cooking wear is a way different grade than the can aluminum that would react so such acid from fruit.

From About.com:

• Do not use an aluminum pot, pan or utensil when cooking tomatoes. The acid in the tomato reacts unfavorably with the aluminum. Using aluminum makes the cooked tomatoes more bitter and fades the color. The dish will also absorb some of the aluminum and the acid in the tomatoes can pit and discolor the aluminum cookware.

So not sure...try a small batch in a aluminum pot and one in a non-aluminum and do a blind test. I would simmer them both for a while first though, since a big batch will take a long cook time and have more chance for it to soak up the flavor of the aluminum. If it does.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Ross.ucf (log)

[thdad]

Thanks everyone for replying to my inquiry. I ended up cooking the church pasta lunch for about 300 people.

I made a basic bolognese sauce in a gas fired kettle made of aluminum and let the sauce simmer for about an hour. I transferred the contents to two large stock pots, also made of aluminum, and let the sauce cool down for the Sunday lunch. The sauce was reheated in the stock pots after about 20 hours.

Thankfully (or luckily) the sauce did not change color or acquire a metallic taste, contrary to my worries. However, in the future I would feel more comfortable cooking acidic foods in non-reactive containers -- if they are available.

[Starkman]

Hello all,

I was wondering what the updated information out there is about cooking with (uncoated) aluminum. There was the theory that aluminum has been found to cause or increase alzheimer's disease. It's also been said that aluminum is toxic to the body (too much of it, at least).

If you do cook with aluminum, do you use coated or straight aluminum?

Thanks,

Starkman

[slkinsey]

Frm a health standpoint, there is nothing wrong with cooking with aluminum. The supposed connection to Alzheimer's has been exhaustively debunked. A few examples:

". . . the current consensus is that aluminum does not play a major role in the development of Alzheimer's disease . . ." - Leonard Berg, professor of neurology at the Washington University School of Medicine and former director of the Alzheimer's Disease Research Center

". . . if aluminum plays a role it is most probably a secondary one. The reasoning for this position is based on the fact that aluminum is one of the most abundant and pervasive elements. It is found everywhere . . ." - Zaven S. Khachaturian, director of the Ronald and Nancy Reagan Research Institute

". . . When the tissue was processed using more sophisticated analytical methods, or when more accurate measures of aluminum content in the Alzheimer's-diseased brain were used, no excess aluminum was found. In addition, studies of the total amount of aluminum in the body of patients with Alzheimer's Disease show no increase in aluminum concentrations as compared to healthy individuals.  In my opinion, the supposed relation between aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease is a simple case of neuromythology." - Charles DeCarli, director of the Alzheimer's Disease Center at the University of Kansas Medical Center

Think about it: aluminum is the third most abundant element in the earth's crust!

As for cooking . . . plenty of restaurants cook on raw aluminum. It's cheap and it has good thermal properties. Most of the time, depending on what you're cooking, there is nothing wrong with using a raw aluminum cooking surface. The only problem is that aluminum is highy reactive, and cooking certain foods on raw aluminum (especially acidic foods) can cause off-flavors. This reduces the versatility of the cookware.

Other than raw aluminum, there is anodized aluminum, which is aluminum that has been treated with an electrolytic process to create a harder surface that is still somewhat reactive, but significantly less so than untreated aluminum. Calphalon is the most widely known example. The problems with anodized aluminum, in my opinion, are that it is very difficult to keep clean, it is fairly expensive, it's soft, and like all unclad aluminum, it has a tendency to warp -- especially at high heat.

Beyond that, you get into clad aluminum and whatnot. But, in these cases, you are using the aluminum only for its (excellent) thermal properties -- the food never actually contacts the aluminum, but rather contacts the cladding.

All this and more in my cookware class: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=25717

[Temple]

The real risk of aluminum is largely unproven at this point, but we ingest aluminum everywhere in our everyday lives; its in municipal water supplies, aspirins, antiperspirants, vaccines, medication, as well as other consumables. The use of aluminum cookware is likely a very small percentage of our aluminum intake.

Even if you used non-stick coating then you also expose yourself to potentially toxic polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE), which is a carcinogen. I've also heard a counter argument to that where if you don't use non-stick coating you have to use more butter or oils to lubricate the surface hence increasing health risks such as heart disease- and now potentially the risk of Alzheimer due to aluminum. Either way you look at it, until there is clear evidence one way or the other I would use what gives you the best results.

[paulraphael]

Probably the most effective way to reduce your aluminum intake is to stop eating leafy green vegetables.

Let us know if you think it's a good idea!

[Dave the Cook]

. . . .

Even if you used non-stick coating then you also expose yourself to potentially toxic polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE), which is a carcinogen. 

. . . .

←

This isn't true. The association with cancer is to perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA), which is used to produce PTFE. PFOA is a carcinogen, but is scacely traceable in the finished product, if at all. The EPA says:

Consumer products made with fluoropolymers include non-stick cookware, and breathable, all-weather clothing. These products are not PFOA, however. The information that EPA has available does not indicate that the routine use of household products poses a concern. EPA does not have any indication that the public is being exposed to PFOA through the use of Teflon®-coated or other trademarked nonstick cookware.  Teflon® and other trademarked products are not PFOA. At the present time, EPA does not believe there is any reason for consumers to stop using any products because of concerns about PFOA.

[Temple]

. . . .

Even if you used non-stick coating then you also expose yourself to potentially toxic polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE), which is a carcinogen. 

. . . .

←

This isn't true. The association with cancer is to perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA), which is used to produce PTFE. PFOA is a carcinogen, but is scacely traceable in the finished product, if at all. The EPA says:

Consumer products made with fluoropolymers include non-stick cookware, and breathable, all-weather clothing. These products are not PFOA, however. The information that EPA has available does not indicate that the routine use of household products poses a concern. EPA does not have any indication that the public is being exposed to PFOA through the use of Teflon®-coated or other trademarked nonstick cookware.  Teflon® and other trademarked products are not PFOA. At the present time, EPA does not believe there is any reason for consumers to stop using any products because of concerns about PFOA.

←

Your comment illustrates my point, because it wasn't really meant to be true; being that the argument of use of extra oil used cookware that isn't non-stick, as well as the link between aluminum to Alzheimer is also equally dubious as concerns of PTFE. My point being, that there are vague worries and concerns for both sides of the argument; perhaps these concerns can be extrapolated further to many or all food products (fats, carbs, MSG, and the delicious burnt crust on meats). So to quote myself, "until there is clear evidence one way or the other I would use what gives you the best results. "

[slkinsey]

I would say that there is more than convincing "proof" (to the extent one can prove a negative) that neither the use of raw aluminum cookware nor PTFE-coated cookware creates any meaningful health risk.

[Edward J]

Now, this is strictly from a Chef's point of view, and I lay no claim to any health knowledge.

Stay away from the stuff!!!!

Why?

As other posters pointed out there is straight aluminum and anodized aluminum, with anodized being very expensive and in many cases more expensive than good quality s/s cookware with a "sandwich" (laminated discs of aluminum and s/s) bottom

Straight aluminum I hate with a passion. To date I have not seen a staight aluminum pot or pan with a "sandwich" bottom, and becasue of the lack of one, it warps--very quickly and very badly. For most commercial kitchens this isn't much of an issue since virtually all N. American commercial kitchens have gas ranges, and a warped pot or pan with a pronounced "belly" or warped bottom can still function fairly well. For those with an electric range, it is very--uh--"challanging" to cook with a warped pot/pan.

I hate them becasue the handles are invariably riveted on. The rivets then invariably work themselves loose, and then you have a pot/pan with a built-in "overflow protection devices", which means that any liquids above the rivet line will leak out and dribble all over the range. (or your hands as you saute) In my carreer I must have peened over the rivets on thousands of aluminum saute pans over a cement filled post in the parking lot with a meat hammer--and then inverted the stupid thing and pound flat the "belly" so the pot/pan can actually sit on the burner grate.....

And I hate, really, really, REALLY hate them becasue untreated aluminum oxidizes. Which means that whatever the pot/pan touches will turn black from oxidization: Hands, countertops, cupboard shelves. Certain soaps and detergents can aggravate this oxidation, so watch out what you wash the pot/pan with.

I hate them becasue if you have any white/cream liquids in them and stir with a metal whisk or spoon, your liquid will turn grey/black. Califlower and fennel tend to turn grey too when cooked in liquid in an aluminum pot/pan

I hate them because they pit far worse and far quicker than most other materials. Yes, s/s and even enameled ware will pit if you add undissolved salt to a liquid and then apply heat--some kind of a chemical reaction-don't know what it is or what it's called, but aluminum pits far, far quicker than any other material.

Well, I did say I hated the stuff, didn't I?.......

[Edward J]

Oh, I forgot to add...

I hate them because they (alum. cookware) react to wine, vinegar, citrus juices, some fruit juices (cherry comes to mind...) and tomatoes.

[HowardLi]

Even anodized aluminum can be damaged by acid, so I would suggest keeping to non-stick aluminum or stainless steel otherwise.

[paulraphael]

I hate them becasue the handles are invariably riveted on.  The rivets then invariably work themselves loose, and then you have a pot/pan with a built-in "overflow protection devices", which means that any liquids above the rivet line will leak out and dribble all over the range.

I think the issue here is cheap-ass pans, not rivets in general. Some of the best pans made have riveted handles (there are restaurants in Europe using copper pans w/ rivited iron handles that are decades old). I have cookware that I've been using since 1991 that has never had a rivet issue.

But I agree with you on the warping and the oxidation. Warping is an issue on any non-sandwiched aluminum pan. You can warp the bejeezus out of anodized cookware (I've had to straighten mine with a hammer a few times).

I do have a 20qt, plain aluminum stock pot. No problems at all with it. Cheap, performs well, and isn't used with highly acid ingredients for the kinds of high heat cooking that causes warping.

[Edward J]

]

I think the issue here is cheap-ass pans, not rivets in general. Some of the best pans made have riveted handles (there are restaurants in Europe using copper pans w/ rivited iron handles that are decades old). I have cookware that I've been using since 1991 that has never had a rivet issue.

←

While this is true in many high quality pans, (to which I attest to as well, since I have a very nice laminated copper- s/s saute pan with a riveted on cast iron handle and after 10 years is still rock-solid) aluminum cookware invariably features aluminum rivets, and aluminum rivets are fairly soft and prone to fatigueing quickly. Manufacturers are loathe to use dis-similiar metal rivets on almunimum cookware, and even though welding aluminum is commonly ued in many other applications, I have yet to see an aluminum manufacturer weld handles on or use a combination of spot welding and rivets

IMHO aluminum only has three virtues: Good heat conductivity, is light, (this becomes very advantagous with large pots), and it's fairly cheap. The bad virtues I have listed above.

[Starkman]

Hey, thanks for the input, folks,

Thanks,

[Fat Guy]

I assume we're all in agreement that the aluminum-Alzheimer's link is bogus, and for those who think it's a concern I think that could be addressed separately, so moving on . . .

On the Sitram/All-Clad topic I mentioned that many if not most professional restaurant kitchens use aluminum cookware. Not anodized aluminum. Not Teflon-coated aluminum. Just aluminum, like this Lincoln Wearever stuff:

The major advantages of this kind of cookware are:

1. It's cheap. A Lincoln Wearever 10" fry pan is $23.70 at BigTray and, as its use in so many excellent restaurants demonstrates, is all you actually need to cook at a high professional level.

2. It's durable. The cookware depicted above, in use last night at Beacon restaurant in New York City, has been with the restaurant since it opened in 1999, under heavy commercial use on very powerful ranges and in a wood-burning oven.

3. It's lightweight. Although aluminum cookware tends to have thick walls, it's still very light compared to most other cookware.

4. Aluminum is a very good conductor of heat and has generally good properties for cooking. It's not copper, but it's quite usable.

5. The surface releases pretty easily. More on that later.

Now for open questions, which may also be disadvantages:

1. Does it need to be seasoned? The cooks I spoke to last night, and other people I've spoken to, have said that unfinished aluminum needs seasoning, just like cast iron. Is this true?

2. I hear again and again that aluminum is sensitive to acidic food and both wrecks and gets wrecked by anything acidic that you cook in it. Is this really true? I've witnessed one challenge to the hypothesis: last night, as seen in that first photo above, we cooked meatballs in tomato sauce for an hour in a 600+ degree wood burning oven with no noticeable interaction between the saute pan and the sauce. I've also challenged a similar hypothesis many times with cast iron, and have never seen a problematic interaction between seasoned cast iron and tomato sauce, which by all accounts is quite acidic.

3. How best to clean it? This is one area where I've never done well with aluminum. I don't use much unfinished aluminum (I have a lot of anodized, which plays by different rules) but I have a big stockpot and several half-sheet pans. The stockpot, if you scrub it with a metal scrubber, turns the washing water gray. The sheet pans are easily scratched, not that it matters all that much. What's the deal here?

[NancyH]

A great topic FatGuy! I have two vintage Magnalite roasters that are aluminum. I've always been afraid to cook anything acidic in them. Yet my friend Scott, who acquired the smaller one for me on Ebay, makes chili in his all the time. And my friend Linda does her holiday brisket w/tomato sauce in one.

I wrote to Magnalite and asked them about it - and got a lot of newspeak and doubletalk instead of an answer.

So - I eagerly await to see how others weigh in on this topic!

[Fat Guy]

That may introduce another variable: Magnalite is cast aluminum, as opposed to the typical restaurant product which seems to be formed from sheets of aluminum. I doubt it makes a difference but I guess it could. Does anybody know?

[heidih]

I picked up my first aluminum pot from Smart & Final (a small restaurant oriented big box type store) for a song after I saw the ladies at the local taqueria making their soups in it. It does react with some items, but that is all visual and you learn what your piece does. You can't beat the price and it does not spatter/hiss like my stainless one of the same size when I am simmering liquids. Mine has a padded handle which for a practically daily burner is nice. I tend to use it for heating single servings of soup; starting with stock and adding in.

[annecros]

I'm Anne, and I cook on bare aluminum from time to time.

The heat conduction is the bomb.

I've seen chemical reactions.

More radical than I have seen on cast iron? Nah.

I wouldn't bother to season it. Toss it and get another, although I have never had to do that with bare aluminum.

I can see it in the commercial kitchen. I mean, it's like Reynold's Wrap. Seen it in my own kitchen. It's like Reynold's Wrap.

Now, the thing that makes me think is cast steel, not the stainless kind but cast steel. Makes you go hmm.

Edit: I think it is also referred to as crucible steel. Very light, not shiny, durable, great heat conductor.

I may have to steal Mom's one day.

[gallucci]

...

Now, the thing that makes me think is cast steel, not the stainless kind but cast steel. Makes you go hmm.

Edit: I think it is also referred to as crucible steel. Very light, not shiny, durable, great heat conductor.

I may have to steal Mom's one day.

←

"white" carbon steel, like these?

I have been tempted to try one...

mark

[annecros]

...

Now, the thing that makes me think is cast steel, not the stainless kind but cast steel. Makes you go hmm.

Edit: I think it is also referred to as crucible steel. Very light, not shiny, durable, great heat conductor.

I may have to steal Mom's one day.

←

"white" carbon steel, like these?

I have been tempted to try one...

mark

←

It looks like it. I think yes. Older women sought them out because of the light weight. "Cooks as good as cast iron." I seem to remember them saying. These ladies would be arthritic, and sort of burned out on the whole hauling a cast iron frying pan around. Why would they call it "cast steel" instead of carbon steel though?

I just looked, and my one sort of smallish, bare aluminum pot is my chicken soup pot. It isn't right unless it comes out of that pot, and honestly, it does appear to have a season. Crazy.

I bought that pot on a whim, cheap, and thinking back on where I lived when I bought it, I can safely say it is better than a decade old. Maybe two decades?